God's Chosen People per Romans 11

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#81
which individual?
what 7 year agreement?
The ruler, that coming antichrist and that future seven year agreement that he makes with Israel according to Dan.9:27.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#82
I understand what you are saying here. Perhaps this is why the writer of Hebrews says that we have a better covenant based upon better promises. The blood of Jesus speaks of better things...etc. The "conditions" in the Old Covenant are fully met in Christ now.

There is probably more to this physical Israel thing then meets the eye. The Lord will work all that out when He comes back.

Personally I have always had a love for Jewish people and I am thankful for Abraham having faith to believe what God said and that Abraham is the father of us that exhibit the same kind of faith in believing in what our Father says about His Son's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

I agree with you that when the Lord says we "have eternal life" - it is the truth and it is "conditional" on what He has already fulfilled for us who believe. In Him we have eternal redemption because of what He has done. The "conditional" aspect has been met fully in Christ and it has in us that believe in Him. We are safe in Christ.

In this security brings the environment for true maturity as it does in any relationship. He is not a liar and He can be trusted. His grace and love demonstrates this truth to us.

God did give us a better promise, Even Abraham looked for it.

Would your rather have a plot of land in the middle east for your life on earth, or heaven for all eternity?

No one in their right mind would claim the land for a few decades of this short life.

But that does not negate what God promised to a nation of people.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#83
I think if we listen to all of the video - he explains that all out towards the end. Sometimes we jump on things before they are fully heard out and then we can draw wrong conclusions.

As I have said - there is probably more to the physical Israel thing then meets the eye. Physical Israel itself is a not issue with me.

I agree with you that the spirit of grace has been poured out on everyone.

Titus 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

if he said all of the prophecies concerning isreal are done, or completed, then he is wrong..
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#84
This is going to be hard to make it through Romans 11 if we can't agree on verse 1 lol. Verse 1 is one of the major proofs that flesh Israel is NOT God's chosen people.

Everyone try to lay aside preconceived ideas and focus in on what verse 1 says and let it say what it says. The only context needed for verse 1 is the context of the position of Israel at verse 1. Has flesh Israel been cast away at verse 1?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#85
if the promises to Israel aren't fulfilled, you're not saved either.
none of us are.

That's not true. None of Gods promises to the nation concerned THEIR SALVATION. Giving a nation land has nothing to do with the salvation of 1 person.


 
Nov 23, 2013
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#86
The thread is about God's chosen people per Romans 11. I know it's hard to do, but I would like to keep the conversation about that.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#87
Maybe the first question that should be asked is - Is the taking of the kingdom from Israel the same thing as God casting away Israel? I say that it is the same.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#88
The ruler, that coming antichrist and that future seven year agreement that he makes with Israel according to Dan.9:27.
The antichrist (one) and antichrists(plural) are here, it marks the beginning of the last days.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#89
Everyone try to lay aside preconceived ideas and focus in on what verse 1 says and let it say what it says. The only context needed for verse 1 is the context of the position of Israel at verse 1. Has flesh Israel been cast away at verse 1?
Yes let's agree with what Paul says---->>>> Did God cast away his people? God forbid.

Did you catch that? :) If not just look at the next verse--->>>[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."

The answer is right there in front of your face so why argue against it?

Paul is talking about flesh and blood Israel there, not a "spiritual Israel". So why do you refuse to take what is plainly written and try to twist it?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#90
They're not warned against saying it. They are warned against boasting of it.

No one is boasting that I see. Just getting to the Truth of who Gods People are.

In fact I have never heard of anyone saying "haha, we are Gods People and you are not". Gods People typically want all people to be included. And the only real qualification is believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Which some reject...
I agree with this because Paul says that if " the Jews " turn to the Lord then the veil is lifted from them when they read Moses. 2 Cor. 3:13-16.

I believe Romans 11 is just contrasting Israel and Gentiles and that both groups are included now if they believe in Christ.

God is not going to forsake/cast away ( Rom. 11:2 ) those Jews as if they are forever cut off because they are physical Jews from Israel - they too are included in Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins - if they believe in Christ's finished work and not in their own self-righteousness or keeping of the law.

There is no room for boasting from us Gentiles as if we are better then the physical Jews.

The real Israel of God are those that are in Christ - consisting of both the true ethnic Jews and us "dogs" the Gentiles.

Those that are the "new creation in Christ" are the true Israel of God.

Galatians 6:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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#91
Yes let's agree with what Paul says---->>>> Did God cast away his people? God forbid.

Did you catch that? :) If not just look at the next verse--->>>[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."

The answer is right there in front of your face so why argue against it?

Paul is talking about flesh and blood Israel there, not a "spiritual Israel". So why do you refuse to take what is plainly written and try to twist it?
I know exactly what you're saying. But my question is - has the kingdom been taken from Israel at that point?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#92
Maybe the first question that should be asked is - Is the taking of the kingdom from Israel the same thing as God casting away Israel? I say that it is the same.
Not all Israel is Israel as to how God defines Israel .Just like not all who call themselves Jew are after the spiritual seed of Christ born of the Spirit of God. Some after the fleshly seeds of Abraham . Not all of Israel comes after the spiritual seed of Christ the remnant are after the fleshy seeds of Abraham, will be here until the last day they stand on the same fallow ground as anyone else. God is no respecter of person .

We are not to glory in the flesh we walk by faith (not seen) the eternal ,not by sight (seen )the temporal . Christian is the new name God named his people. Not all Christians are Christians same thing a man must be born again of the Spirit . By an through the incorruptible seed, Christ .

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#93

That's not true. None of Gods promises to the nation concerned THEIR SALVATION. Giving a nation land has nothing to do with the salvation of 1 person.


I suppose it depends on how you view it.

John 6:63 [FONT=&quot]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

[/FONT]
If we have figured that the Law is Spiritual why would the land promises not be as well?

Romans 9:6-7
[FONT=&quot]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

This shows that there is a spiritual Israel that is not flesh Israel.

Galatians 4:26-31
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


We see in Galatians 4 that flesh Israel will not be the heir. Those that have faith in Christ will be the heir.[/FONT]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#94
Not all Israel is Israel as to how God defines Israel .Just like not all who call themselves Jew are after the spiritual seed of Christ born of the Spirit of God. Some after the fleshly seeds of Abraham . Not all of Israel comes after the spiritual seed of Christ the remnant are after the fleshy seeds of Abraham, will be here until the last day they stand on the same fallow ground as anyone else. God is no respecter of person .

We are not to glory in the flesh we walk by faith (not seen) the eternal ,not by sight (seen )the temporal . Christian is the new name God named his people. Not all Christians are Christians same thing a man must be born again of the Spirit . By an through the incorruptible seed, Christ .

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
You are right and that's what Paul is saying in verse 1. Flesh Israel has been cast way BUT the CHOSEN ONES in flesh Israel are not cast way.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#95
I suppose it depends on how you view it.

Now if everyone would say and understand this, and stop with the accusations. This place would be a much better place. Your right, it does depend on how one views it. THAT should be the discussion (although sadly NEVER IS


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

If we have figured that the Law is Spiritual why would the land promises not be as well?

The law was spiritual as for as ones eternal life.

The land was never given to show someone eternal life. It was a gift. The law is called a burden.


Romans 9:6-7
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.


in response to the argument made about the NATION of isreal. Not individual salvation. The question, Did God make a mistake choosing Israel.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

This shows that there is a spiritual Israel that is not flesh Israel.
Yes, Spiritual Isreal according to the promise of blessing (salvation) not fleshly Israel. Who was given land, but never promised salvation.

Galatians 4:26-31
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


We see in Galatians 4 that flesh Israel will not be the heir. Those that have faith in Christ will be the heir.
Heir according to salvation.

I am not talking about salvation, but a different promise. Which has nothing to do with salvation.

I see where your coming from in your context. I have a different view. because my as you said (way to look at it) is based on a different context. and different promise.
 
Dec 13, 2016
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#96
Matthew 21:43 KJV
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Is this not the casting away of flesh Israel? Is flesh Israel in charge of the oracles of God any more?
Hmmm. Unfortunately it is not that simple KJ.

The Nation of Judah was called Israel up 'til that point, but Jesus remarried the proper nation of Israel, the Northern Kingdom who are rightfully called Israel. So the Kingdom passed from Judah to Israel.

Judah is actually a part of Israel though...complicated. That is why the disciples in Acts asked if Jesus was about to restore the Kingdom to Israel. The branch of Ephraim and branch of Judah were merged back together under Christ. The Kingship also went to Ephraim, so Ephraim held birthright and kingship. Jesus now sat as King of Israel on the throne of David.

Romans 9 and 11 explain the mystery of the northern Kingdom.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
Rom 11: 1 11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Nothing in this verse says flesh Isreal was cast away. We should be very careful about ADDING to the word of God.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#98
You are right and that's what Paul is saying in verse 1. Flesh Israel has been cast way
No, that is your preconceived twist. Again--->>> Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
Everyone try to lay aside preconceived ideas and focus in on what verse 1 says and let it say what it says.
Yes, take your own advice. :)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#99
The next few verses showing the casting away of flesh Israel as was done in the time of Elijah. Eliah prayed AGAINST flesh Israel.

Romans 11:2-4 KJV
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
[3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Here are the verses Paul was talking about.

1 Kings 19:14-18 KJV
And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
[15] And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
[16] And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
[17] And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
[18] Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

Before God sent Hazael in to destroy FLESH ISRAEL he reserved (CHOSE) 7000 OUT OF flesh Israel. These are God's CHOSEN people chosen out of flesh Israel. The same thing is about to happen in Paul's time... that's hwy he brought up Elijah's story.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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No, that is your preconceived twist. Again--->>> Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.


Yes, take your own advice. :)
Was Israel cast away when Paul wrote that? Here's a hint... they were cast away. Hence ISRAEL was cast away BUT God's CHOSEN people were not.

Romans 11:15 KJV
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead?