God's Chosen People per Romans 11
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God did give us a better promise, Even Abraham looked for it.
Would your rather have a plot of land in the middle east for your life on earth, or heaven for all eternity?
No one in their right mind would claim the land for a few decades of this short life.
But that does not negate what God promised to a nation of people.
Would your rather have a plot of land in the middle east for your life on earth, or heaven for all eternity?
No one in their right mind would claim the land for a few decades of this short life.
But that does not negate what God promised to a nation of people.
This is going to be hard to make it through Romans 11 if we can't agree on verse 1 lol. Verse 1 is one of the major proofs that flesh Israel is NOT God's chosen people.
Everyone try to lay aside preconceived ideas and focus in on what verse 1 says and let it say what it says. The only context needed for verse 1 is the context of the position of Israel at verse 1. Has flesh Israel been cast away at verse 1?
Everyone try to lay aside preconceived ideas and focus in on what verse 1 says and let it say what it says. The only context needed for verse 1 is the context of the position of Israel at verse 1. Has flesh Israel been cast away at verse 1?
Yes let's agree with what Paul says---->>>> Did God cast away his people? God forbid.
Did you catch that?
If not just look at the next verse--->>>[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."
The answer is right there in front of your face so why argue against it?
Paul is talking about flesh and blood Israel there, not a "spiritual Israel". So why do you refuse to take what is plainly written and try to twist it?
Did you catch that?
If not just look at the next verse--->>>[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."The answer is right there in front of your face so why argue against it?
Paul is talking about flesh and blood Israel there, not a "spiritual Israel". So why do you refuse to take what is plainly written and try to twist it?
I agree with this because Paul says that if " the Jews " turn to the Lord then the veil is lifted from them when they read Moses. 2 Cor. 3:13-16.
I believe Romans 11 is just contrasting Israel and Gentiles and that both groups are included now if they believe in Christ.
God is not going to forsake/cast away ( Rom. 11:2 ) those Jews as if they are forever cut off because they are physical Jews from Israel - they too are included in Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins - if they believe in Christ's finished work and not in their own self-righteousness or keeping of the law.
There is no room for boasting from us Gentiles as if we are better then the physical Jews.
The real Israel of God are those that are in Christ - consisting of both the true ethnic Jews and us "dogs" the Gentiles.
Those that are the "new creation in Christ" are the true Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
I believe Romans 11 is just contrasting Israel and Gentiles and that both groups are included now if they believe in Christ.
God is not going to forsake/cast away ( Rom. 11:2 ) those Jews as if they are forever cut off because they are physical Jews from Israel - they too are included in Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins - if they believe in Christ's finished work and not in their own self-righteousness or keeping of the law.
There is no room for boasting from us Gentiles as if we are better then the physical Jews.
The real Israel of God are those that are in Christ - consisting of both the true ethnic Jews and us "dogs" the Gentiles.
Those that are the "new creation in Christ" are the true Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
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Yes let's agree with what Paul says---->>>> Did God cast away his people? God forbid.
Did you catch that? If not just look at the next verse--->>>[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."
The answer is right there in front of your face so why argue against it?
Paul is talking about flesh and blood Israel there, not a "spiritual Israel". So why do you refuse to take what is plainly written and try to twist it?
Did you catch that?
If not just look at the next verse--->>>[SUP]2 [/SUP]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."The answer is right there in front of your face so why argue against it?
Paul is talking about flesh and blood Israel there, not a "spiritual Israel". So why do you refuse to take what is plainly written and try to twist it?
Not all Israel is Israel as to how God defines Israel .Just like not all who call themselves Jew are after the spiritual seed of Christ born of the Spirit of God. Some after the fleshly seeds of Abraham . Not all of Israel comes after the spiritual seed of Christ the remnant are after the fleshy seeds of Abraham, will be here until the last day they stand on the same fallow ground as anyone else. God is no respecter of person .
We are not to glory in the flesh we walk by faith (not seen) the eternal ,not by sight (seen )the temporal . Christian is the new name God named his people. Not all Christians are Christians same thing a man must be born again of the Spirit . By an through the incorruptible seed, Christ .
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
We are not to glory in the flesh we walk by faith (not seen) the eternal ,not by sight (seen )the temporal . Christian is the new name God named his people. Not all Christians are Christians same thing a man must be born again of the Spirit . By an through the incorruptible seed, Christ .
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I suppose it depends on how you view it.
John 6:63 [FONT="]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
[/FONT]If we have figured that the Law is Spiritual why would the land promises not be as well?
Romans 9:6-7
[FONT="]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
This shows that there is a spiritual Israel that is not flesh Israel.
Galatians 4:26-31
[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[/FONT]
[FONT="]27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
We see in Galatians 4 that flesh Israel will not be the heir. Those that have faith in Christ will be the heir.[/FONT]
John 6:63 [FONT="]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
[/FONT]If we have figured that the Law is Spiritual why would the land promises not be as well?
Romans 9:6-7
[FONT="]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
This shows that there is a spiritual Israel that is not flesh Israel.
Galatians 4:26-31
[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[/FONT]
[FONT="]27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
We see in Galatians 4 that flesh Israel will not be the heir. Those that have faith in Christ will be the heir.[/FONT]
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Now if everyone would say and understand this, and stop with the accusations. This place would be a much better place. Your right, it does depend on how one views it. THAT should be the discussion (although sadly NEVER IS
The law was spiritual as for as ones eternal life.
The land was never given to show someone eternal life. It was a gift. The law is called a burden.
in response to the argument made about the NATION of isreal. Not individual salvation. The question, Did God make a mistake choosing Israel.
Yes, Spiritual Isreal according to the promise of blessing (salvation) not fleshly Israel. Who was given land, but never promised salvation.
Heir according to salvation.
I am not talking about salvation, but a different promise. Which has nothing to do with salvation.
I see where your coming from in your context. I have a different view. because my as you said (way to look at it) is based on a different context. and different promise.
Hmmm. Unfortunately it is not that simple KJ.
The Nation of Judah was called Israel up 'til that point, but Jesus remarried the proper nation of Israel, the Northern Kingdom who are rightfully called Israel. So the Kingdom passed from Judah to Israel.
Judah is actually a part of Israel though...complicated. That is why the disciples in Acts asked if Jesus was about to restore the Kingdom to Israel. The branch of Ephraim and branch of Judah were merged back together under Christ. The Kingship also went to Ephraim, so Ephraim held birthright and kingship. Jesus now sat as King of Israel on the throne of David.
Romans 9 and 11 explain the mystery of the northern Kingdom.
The Nation of Judah was called Israel up 'til that point, but Jesus remarried the proper nation of Israel, the Northern Kingdom who are rightfully called Israel. So the Kingdom passed from Judah to Israel.
Judah is actually a part of Israel though...complicated. That is why the disciples in Acts asked if Jesus was about to restore the Kingdom to Israel. The branch of Ephraim and branch of Judah were merged back together under Christ. The Kingship also went to Ephraim, so Ephraim held birthright and kingship. Jesus now sat as King of Israel on the throne of David.
Romans 9 and 11 explain the mystery of the northern Kingdom.
The next few verses showing the casting away of flesh Israel as was done in the time of Elijah. Eliah prayed AGAINST flesh Israel.
Romans 11:2-4 KJV
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
[3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Here are the verses Paul was talking about.
1 Kings 19:14-18 KJV
And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
[15] And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
[16] And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
[17] And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
[18] Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
Before God sent Hazael in to destroy FLESH ISRAEL he reserved (CHOSE) 7000 OUT OF flesh Israel. These are God's CHOSEN people chosen out of flesh Israel. The same thing is about to happen in Paul's time... that's hwy he brought up Elijah's story.
Romans 11:2-4 KJV
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
[3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Here are the verses Paul was talking about.
1 Kings 19:14-18 KJV
And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
[15] And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
[16] And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
[17] And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
[18] Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
Before God sent Hazael in to destroy FLESH ISRAEL he reserved (CHOSE) 7000 OUT OF flesh Israel. These are God's CHOSEN people chosen out of flesh Israel. The same thing is about to happen in Paul's time... that's hwy he brought up Elijah's story.
No, that is your preconceived twist. Again--->>> Romans 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
Yes, take your own advice.
Yes, take your own advice.
Romans 11:15 KJV
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead?