God's Chosen People per Romans 11

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is a teaching which may shed some more light on this subject.

[video=youtube;WVmAxw8dqAA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVmAxw8dqAA[/video]

This guy in the video said there are no more promises to be fulfilled for the flesh and blood children of Israel, this of course is false. This is speaking contrary to what Paul was saying, again....

Paul understood that God's favor would return to Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which is after the tribulation of those days.

Notice Paul mentions the Covenant = the Promise to Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in....

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This is where Paul is getting this Promise/Covenant from--->>>>

Jeremiah 31:33-37

[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, (after the tribulation of "those days"=after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in) saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord."

So no, God's promises to flesh and blood Israel are not all fulfilled as this video suggests.

Here is a thread I put together showing how God's spirit of grace is going to be poured out on Jacob/Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles is complete--->>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...odliness-removed-every-eye-shall-see-him.html

 

[Grace777x70]

This guy in the video said there are no more promises to be fulfilled for the flesh and blood children of Israel, this of course is false. This is speaking contrary to what Paul was saying, again....

Paul understood that God's favor would return to Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which is after the tribulation of those days.

Notice Paul mentions the Covenant = the Promise to Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in....

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This is where Paul is getting this Promise/Covenant from--->>>>

Jeremiah 31:33-37

[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, (after the tribulation of "those days"=after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in) saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord."

So no, God's promises to flesh and blood Israel are not all fulfilled as this video suggests.

Here is a thread I put together showing how God's spirit of grace is going to be poured out on Jacob/Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles is complete--->>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...odliness-removed-every-eye-shall-see-him.html

I think if we listen to all of the video - he explains that all out towards the end. Sometimes we jump on things before they are fully heard out and then we can draw wrong conclusions.

As I have said - there is probably more to the physical Israel thing then meets the eye. Physical Israel itself is a not issue with me.

I agree with you that the spirit of grace has been poured out on everyone.

Titus 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I think if we listen to all of the video - he explains that all out towards the end. Sometimes we jump on things before they are fully heard out and then we can draw wrong conclusions.

I watched all the video, and he said all the promises to Israel are already fulfilled, which is false!

 

[Spurgeoncy]

KJV
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

Not to be contentious, but to show how much influence a translation can have.

 

[zone]

I watched all the video, and he said all the promises to Israel are already fulfilled, which is false!

if the promises to Israel aren't fulfilled, you're not saved either.
none of us are.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I agree with you that the spirit of grace has been poured out on everyone.

I didn't say that.

 

[Ahwatukee]

if the promises to Israel aren't fulfilled, you're not saved either.
none of us are.

Hello Zone,

What does the state of unbelieving Israel have to do with those who have recognized Christ as their Savior? The offer of salvation is to anyone who will believes in Christ and is not based on the promises of Israel being fulfilled. Only those who believe in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, are saved and that regardless of promises fulfilled or unfulfilled for Israel.

Once the church has been gathered, God will take up where he left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon them their holy city.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

if the promises to Israel aren't fulfilled, you're not saved either.
none of us are.

I'm saved, sealed and anointed, that's also how I know and understand by the Spirit and by the words of God I posted above that God's favor will return to flesh and blood Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

[KJV1611]

false

5Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over
Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?

By David, the bible is talking about Christ, David was a forshadow of Christ. Besides, the bible is clear that the kingdom was taken from Israel.

Matthew 21:43 KJV
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[zone]

Once the church has been gathered, God will take up where he left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon them their holy city.

rubbish...

 

[zone]

I'm saved, sealed and anointed, that's also how I know and understand by the Spirit and by the words of God I posted above that God's favor will return to flesh and blood Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

you're off in the dispie ditch.

 

[Ahwatukee]

rubbish...

Yeah, that's a good exegetical response. Because zone said so. When you see that individual make a seven year agreement with Israel on the news, then you will know that I was speaking the scriptural truth. And following that will be the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

you're off in the dispie ditch.

...............

Yeah, that's a good exegetical response.

 

[KJV1611]

How do you deal with the end of the chapter, where we read about not boasting against the natural branches that were broken off, saying, "They were broken off, that I might be grafted in." Paul warns those who would make such a boast.

The blindness on 'natural Israel' is temporary. It is part of God's plan to bring mercy to others. This was predicted in Deuteronomy where God told Israel that He would provoke them to jealousy by them that are no people. Israel as a natural flesh-and-blood nation was to be provoked to jealousy.

As we read on in the passage, Paul says that "All Israel shall be saved...." Clearly, he is talking about the physical nation, because he says that they are enemies for your sakes, but beloved for the sakes' of the the fathers. There were Jews opposed to the Gospel, in some cases persecuting the church back then. How could 'enemies for your sakes' be some kind of spiritualized reference to the church?

Why would you think God had cast away His people-- the physical descendants of Israel-- when the passage predicts that the nation will be saved? (Btw, I do not believe this refers to every individual Jew that's ever lived, but rather to the nation coming to faith at some future point in time in an eschatological scenario.)

I plan of discussing the later verses also. But it's clear though scripture that God took the kingdom from flesh Israel and gave it to the gentiles.

Matthew 21:43 KJV
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[KJV1611]

You are consumed with the FLESH of a nation..... Just read the sentence like it was meant to be read! He ask a question? "Hath"
God cast away His people". An figurative exclamation "God Forbid" meaning 'I hope Not'

The rest of the sentence simply tells who Paul really is. That is in his Fleshly Garment LOL



p.s. Romans 11:2 tells God did not cast his people away.

I think you are digging at anything that could maybe justify your beliefs.

If you will apply Hermeneutics the proper way, the Bible will have a whole different meaning than that of the Preterist (partial or full)


Oh, to answer your question..... NO, Nada, Nich, False,,,etc.

Did God take the kingdom from Israel?

 

[KJV1611]

which old convenant????????????? do you know how many there were?

There's only 2 covenants - do and done.

 

[zone]

....When you see that individual make a seven year agreement with Israel on the news, then you will know that I was speaking the scriptural truth. ..

which individual?
what 7 year agreement?

 

[KJV1611]

Paul is not saying that, he is asking a RHETORICAL QUESTION, then he says GOD FORBID. The Promise was made to Abraham, that was the Covenant, not the LAW, which came 430 years later. The original covenant was the coming of the Promised Seed (Jesus Christ).

Israel rejected God 500 years before Jesus came and thus God decreed a punishment of 70 Weeks unto them, then because they were blind by the LAW they couldn't even see their own Messiah when he came. God then called the Gentiles to take forth His Gospel unto all the world, when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, and the Church is Raptured, Israel will then be dealt with in a final 7 Year Period.

And All Israel OR The Nation of Israel turns back unto their God and accepts Jesus as their Messiah, Elijah is sent to turn them back to God before the Day of the Lord.

When Israel returns to God, they must BELIEVE in God again and in Jesus. The LAW will not be important, the BLOOD OF JESUS will be understood as what gives them their life.

Israel and the Church are two-different entities. BUT....They both must come to God via the blood of Jesus, in that way, they are one and he same.

All of chapter 10 is about Israel rejecting God

Romans 10:3 KJV
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 10:16 KJV
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:18-21 KJV
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
[19] But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
[20] But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
[21] But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.



God has cast away flesh Israel in chapter 10. Do you agree that this is the context of chapter 10?

Now going into chapter 11 having just discussed the taking of the kingdom from Israel and giving it to the gentiles, Paul says "Hath God cast away his people?" God forbid, God would never cast away his chosen people EVEN THOUGH some of his people were a part of flesh Israel whom God had CAST AWAY. The analogy of this would be throwing out the baby with the bath water... the bath water is flesh Israel and God's chosen one is the baby. Does this make sense?

Romans 11:1 KJV
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

 

[KJV1611]

God never cast away Israel though.

The Church was founded on the Jews

What Paul was asking was whether God had rejected the Jews (the disobedient element in Israel).

His reply was NO! The apostles were JUDEANS - JEWS AND BENJAMINITES

The early Church was massively Jewish.

Look, the Jews always were good and bad figs.

The good figs became the first believers in the Church, the bad figs were the people of God's Wrath.

Paul made it quite clear that however much God used the Jews to demonstrate his wrath, there was still a core set of jews who were believers (the remnant)

Matthew 21:43 KJV
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Is this not the casting away of flesh Israel? Is flesh Israel in charge of the oracles of God any more?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Leviticus 26
46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the Lord made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

Leviticus describes the land covenant in Mosaic Law.

As Mosaic Law is now defunct, this is of no relevance.

Any argument for the land has to come from the Abrahamic Covenant, or elsewhere.

It did, I give you this land FOREVER. to you and YOUR DESCENDENTS. (no conditions given)

end of story.