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The scripture you posted had nothing to do with the promise God made Abraham concerning the "land" and that was the subject of the conversation at that time.
Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever
Genesis 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To you and your offspring I will give this land."
Genesis 13:14,15 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east an west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.
Genesis 15:5-8 He took him outside and said, "Look up at the sky and count the stars--if indeed you can count them". The he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." Abram believed the LORD and he credited it to him as righteousness. He also said to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you out of the Ur of Chadeans to give you this land to take possession of it." But Abram said, "Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession it?"
Then God proceeds to set up for a Blood Covenant - in a Blood Covenant the animals are cut in two and arranged on each side - leaving a path down the middle for the parties in the covenant to walk between the pieces. BUT God caused Abram to fall into a deep sleep - 15:12) As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, . . . 17) When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. [representing God passing between the pieces] On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates ---- Now a Blood Covenant is between the people that participate - but Abraham did not participate for God put him in a deep sleep . . . therefore the covenant was a "unilateral" covenant - i.e. done by one person - God himself made a covenant basically with himself concerning Abraham - how powerful is that?!
You actually believe that God would negate this covenant?
Originally Posted by Bride
Never.
This is how it is never negated;
(Gal 3:16)
Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.(Gal 6:15)
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(Gal 6:16)
And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
(Act 15:8)
And God, which knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(Act 15:9)
and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
(Rom 3:22)
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
(Rom 10:12)
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him:
Only Jesus is the means of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, as begun in the preaching of the Gospel to Israel 2000 years ago. Any other idea that the Jews are still somehow God's chosen people has only been silly conjecture, no scriptures. Folks here only want to argue and never read the scriptures I post it is obvious, or you wouldn't still be droning on with opinions and conjecture that mean nothing. So enough for this place I guess. Buh bye
So how did the promise "seed" take care of the promised land to Abraham and his descendants?
Genesis 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To you and your offspring I will give this land."
Genesis 13:14,15 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east an west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.
Genesis 15:5-8 He took him outside and said, "Look up at the sky and count the stars--if indeed you can count them". The he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." Abram believed the LORD and he credited it to him as righteousness. He also said to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you out of the Ur of Chadeans to give you this land to take possession of it." But Abram said, "Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession it?"
Then God proceeds to set up for a Blood Covenant - in a Blood Covenant the animals are cut in two and arranged on each side - leaving a path down the middle for the parties in the covenant to walk between the pieces. BUT God caused Abram to fall into a deep sleep - 15:12) As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, . . . 17) When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. [representing God passing between the pieces] On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates ---- Now a Blood Covenant is between the people that participate - but Abraham did not participate for God put him in a deep sleep . . . therefore the covenant was a "unilateral" covenant - i.e. done by one person - God himself made a covenant basically with himself concerning Abraham - how powerful is that?!
You actually believe that God would negate this covenant?
This is how it is never negated;
(Gal 3:16)
Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.(Gal 6:15)
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(Gal 6:16)
And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
(Act 15:8)
And God, which knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(Act 15:9)
and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
(Rom 3:22)
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
(Rom 10:12)
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him:
Only Jesus is the means of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant, as begun in the preaching of the Gospel to Israel 2000 years ago. Any other idea that the Jews are still somehow God's chosen people has only been silly conjecture, no scriptures. Folks here only want to argue and never read the scriptures I post it is obvious, or you wouldn't still be droning on with opinions and conjecture that mean nothing. So enough for this place I guess. Buh bye
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Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
Love.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light,
John 1:49 ...thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light,
John 1:49 ...thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
When the King comes physically in the flesh, He will set up His Kingdom.
Then I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them, and I will bring them back to their fold, and they shall be fruitful and multiply. I will set shepherds over them who will care for them, and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall any be missing, declares the LORD. "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.' "Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when they shall no longer say, 'As the LORD lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt,' but 'As the LORD lives who brought up and led the offspring of the house of Israel out of the north country and out of all the countries where he had driven them.' Then they shall dwell in their own land."
(Jer 23:3-8)
It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. O house of Jacob, come, let us walk in the light of the LORD.
(Isa 2:2-5)
For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light. On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter. And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
(Zec 14:2-9)
And you can't spiritualize that last passage and still be taken seriously.
Then I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them, and I will bring them back to their fold, and they shall be fruitful and multiply. I will set shepherds over them who will care for them, and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall any be missing, declares the LORD. "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.' "Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when they shall no longer say, 'As the LORD lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt,' but 'As the LORD lives who brought up and led the offspring of the house of Israel out of the north country and out of all the countries where he had driven them.' Then they shall dwell in their own land."
(Jer 23:3-8)
It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. O house of Jacob, come, let us walk in the light of the LORD.
(Isa 2:2-5)
For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light. On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter. And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
(Zec 14:2-9)
And you can't spiritualize that last passage and still be taken seriously.
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An added tidbit from Arnold Fruchtenbaum (also Jewish)...
"The Davidic Covenant is the third covenant, and it promised four eternal things: an eternal house (dynasty), an eternal throne, an eternal kingdom, and one eternal Person. The Dynasty became eternal because it culminated in a Person Who is Himself eternal: Jesus the Messiah. For that reason the Throne and Kingdom will be eternal as well. But Jesus has never yet sat on the Throne of David ruling over a Kingdom of Israel. The reestablishment of the Davidic Throne and Messiah's rule over the Kingdom still awaits a future fulfillment. It requires a future kingdom."
"The Davidic Covenant is the third covenant, and it promised four eternal things: an eternal house (dynasty), an eternal throne, an eternal kingdom, and one eternal Person. The Dynasty became eternal because it culminated in a Person Who is Himself eternal: Jesus the Messiah. For that reason the Throne and Kingdom will be eternal as well. But Jesus has never yet sat on the Throne of David ruling over a Kingdom of Israel. The reestablishment of the Davidic Throne and Messiah's rule over the Kingdom still awaits a future fulfillment. It requires a future kingdom."
Awwe my brother, I pray your eyes be opened in Jesus' name!
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
Uh, what about those who do not know Christ and are blind to that understanding by no fault of their own...
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.
Do you think Paul dreamed this up on His own?
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul received this understanding from Christ directly. What understanding?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Their fault? It was not given for them to understand.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
I speak to them in parables so they see not and hear not nor do they understand. Christ carefully cloaked the truth in parables to hide it from the masses.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
There is a misquoted and misunderstood scripture concerning this...
2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
See? Right there it says this is the only day of salvation. In actuality, it says no such thing. It is a quote from Isaiah...
Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Notice the article? In A day of salvation. If this is the only day of salvation and if you believe scripture...
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Then you have consigned billions of people to hell who never had a chance at salvation. There is another day of salvation. Not a second chance, but the first chance billions of people will ever have. It is the Last Great Day and we read of it in Rev 20:11-12.
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day. Do you think Paul dreamed this up on His own?
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul received this understanding from Christ directly. What understanding?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Their fault? It was not given for them to understand.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
I speak to them in parables so they see not and hear not nor do they understand. Christ carefully cloaked the truth in parables to hide it from the masses.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
There is a misquoted and misunderstood scripture concerning this...
2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
See? Right there it says this is the only day of salvation. In actuality, it says no such thing. It is a quote from Isaiah...
Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Notice the article? In A day of salvation. If this is the only day of salvation and if you believe scripture...
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Then you have consigned billions of people to hell who never had a chance at salvation. There is another day of salvation. Not a second chance, but the first chance billions of people will ever have. It is the Last Great Day and we read of it in Rev 20:11-12.