GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,332
76
48
Hello guys your posts above only show you do not know what the OLD COVNENAT is which point to the NEW. If you do not understand the OLD how can you understand the NEW Covenant?

The 10 Commandments are only prat of the OLD Covenant as they are the NEW. In both the OLD and NEW Covenants these are known as God's FOREVER laws. They are the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the penalty for breaking them is death. They lead us to Jesus so we can see who we are and be forgiven. If we break any one of the 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God in SIN and it is the 10 Commandments that all will be judged by come judgement day. (Romans 3:20; Romans 6:23; Gal 3:24-25; hebrews 8:10-12; James 2:8-12)

The other part of the OLD Covenant you and your friends leave out is the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant.

Exo 24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you. (see also Deut 29:21; 2 Kings 23:2-3; 21; 2 Chron 34:30-31)

Together, (1) God's 10 commandments spoken and written by God himself on stone and (2) the Mosaic book of the Covenant make up the OLD Covenant. Both God's Commandments and the Mosaic book of the covenant had a different purpose and role under the OLD COVENANT.

.................

THE OLD COVENANT


The purpose of God's LAW written on stone and the Mosic laws written in the book

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments)

Purpose;
reveals what sin and righteousness (Good and Evil) is and describes the penalty for sin (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The laws of Moses (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial and civil laws)

Purpose;
was the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the Savior of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

So just as the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN are have a difference purpose to God's Law (10 commandments) they are all temporary Shadows because they were all pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation, God's Law is not temporary they are the manifestation of the Character of God through LOVE and are FOREVER.

GODS LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever

God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7).

It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22).

Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35).

Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.).

The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4).

It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31).

God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it (Matt 5:17-20).

The law is the embodiment of truth that instructs (Rom 2:18-19). It is "holy" and "spiritual, " making sin known to us by defining it; therefore, Paul delights in it (Romans 7:7-14Romans 7:22). The law is good if used properly (1 Tim 1:8), and is not opposed to the promises of God (Gal 3:21).

Faith does not make the law void, but the Christian establishes the law ( Rom 3:31 ), fulfilling its requirements by walking according to the Spirit (Rom 8:4) through love (Rom 13:10).

You cannot know the power of God or the Gospel of Grace without the 10 commandments. If there is NO LAW then you do not know what SIN is (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). If you do not know what SIN is you have NO need of a Savior. If you have NO need of a Savior you have NO Salvation. If you have NO Salvation you are LOST because it is written.

God's LAW was written and made by God alone on two tables of stone and spoken by God himself to his people and nothing was to be added to it. (God's LAW; Ex 32:16; 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4; Exodus 20; Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Ps 119:172; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 8:10-12; Gal 3:24; Deut 5:22; Ex 34:28; Deut 10:4 Ecc 3:14; Ex 25:16; Deut 10:5)

It is called God's LAW or the 10 Commandment, because he was the one alone who made it and commanded Moses to keep in separated from the book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Neh 10:29; Deut 10:4-5; Deut 31:25-26; Deut 4:13; Ex 34:28)

God's LAW was not made by Moses it was made by God alone on two tables of stone and nothing was to be added to it and it was to be separated from the Mosaic book of the law. That is why it is referred to in the scriptures as God's LAW or the 10 commandments (not the 613).

The Mosaic law was made and written and spoken by Moses as directed by God in the book of the covenant. (Mosaic Book of the law; Deut 31:9; Ex 24:3-4; Deut 31:24-27; Col 2:14-17).

God not only commanded Moses to keep the 10 Commandments separated from the Mosaic book of the law in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut 10:5; 31:25-26 nothing was to be added to it (Deut 4:1-2; Deut 5:22)

God makes a distinction between the 10 Commandments and the book of the law of Moses….

2 Kings 21
8,
Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them
(10 Commandments), and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them (Mosaic book of the Covenant).

Do we need more scripture? It is the Shadow laws written in the book of Moses that pointed to Jesus and God’s plan of salvation and the remission of SINS that has been abolished not God’s 10 Commandments which are the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Good and Evil) and the very standard of the Old and NEW Covenant and the Judgement to come.


Now my friend do you still need more scripture?

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
dear

you do not understand the Word handwriting mean.

you add the word and you do not admit it

[h=1]Colossians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)[/h]14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

blotting out the handwriting of ordinance > erase handwriting of ordinance

this is the verse that you use as base why you not kill sabbath violator.

but you add and change the verse into> Erase only Moses handwriting ordinance

and after change the verse you think you know OT and accuse other do not know OT

dear, I think you definition of know OT is if you dare to accuse the Bible wrong and you need to correct it


 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,317
128
63
interesting thing about the rich young ruler

he wants to know what he can do to get eternal life

if one wishes to get eternal life by doing
Jesus gives the answer
Actually Jesus gave this man the same answer He has given since He created man to begin with. Jesus has been consistent both as the God of Abraham, and as Jesus the Man.

And Paul agrees with Him.

Rom. 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:


11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Seems like the same message He gives to everyone. What we "DO" determines our fate.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
171
0
You admittedly say you do not recognize the Sabbath. It is That to which you posted it to.
I continually say I keep the Sabbath; and I argue, as strongly as he does, that it is NOT required of NT believers.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,163
268
83
Bridgeway Bible Dictionary

Conquest of Canaan
Though all the Canaanite peoples were religiously and morally corrupt, God gave them ample time to repent before he finally executed his judgment upon them. It was several hundred years from the time God warned of judgment to the time the judgment actually fell. Only when the Canaanites’ wickedness had gone beyond the limits that God’s tolerance allowed did God command the Israelites to destroy them and possess their land (Gen 15:16; Deu 7:1-5; 20:17-18).
this raises a question

if God tells you to take someone's land, is that stealing?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,163
268
83
"Everything is permissible for me—but not everything is beneficial" (1 Corinthians 6:12)

Notice the quotes. Paul is not saying this, it was a common saying among the elite of the day. They were quoting Plato and and Paul is quoting the Corinthians who lived in "sin city" as Corinth was known. They were saying immorality was permissible. Paul of course set them straight.
ancient manuscripts have no punctuation

it's all translator's choice
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,317
128
63
this raises a question

if God tells you to take someone's land, is that stealing?
But doesn't God own everything anyway? Is He unjust to take away what He gives when the temporary tenant missuses His possessions?


The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Does this make Him a thief in your mind?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,163
268
83
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

There are 2 extremes and Satan doesn't mind if you are going to either side.
Legalism - like the Pharisees that made the keeping of the law there salvation.
Grace does away with the law (what do i call this extreme) - Where you say there is no Law because keeping the law is works and our works count for nothing.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Paul explains it well. We have become dead to the Law because Christ has taken our place and taken our punishment.
The law doesn't have a case against us if we have Christ as our representative.
But He doesn't say to not keep the law and make it void. He tells us to serve it.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (One of the Ten Commandments)
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Paul is saying not to keep the law to be saved because we all fail and are condemned to death by the law.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

How is the righteousness of the Law fulfilled in us?
If i walk after the Spirit, and I’m Spiritually minded I’ll delight in the Law like Paul.
If Christ dwells in me He will keep the Law in me and I’m not keeping it to be saved or disobeying the law by grace.

Righteousness = Obedience to The law of God
righteousness by faith = ?????? By faith
"But He doesn't say to*not keep the law*and make it void. He tells us to serve it.*"

is he saying to serve the law or to serve God?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,163
268
83
Hi LGF, i notice something on here,
When people put Bible verses together and point out a fact from the bible alone, you usually don't get a direct response. The Truth can't be argued with so people tent to attack other things and divert the point away. You ask for bible profs and i notice that people don't give you direct responses.
If i'm honest with what the bible verses teach us i come believe the sabbath with all the 10 commandments are standing today and we should keep them because we love Jesus.
a person with a concordance can post verses that user the same word

often, though, it doesn't support their point
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,332
76
48
[h=1]Colossians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)[/h]14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

or·di·nance
ˈôrd(ə)nəns/
noun

  • 1.
    NORTH AMERICAN
    a piece of legislation enacted by a municipal authority.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"a city ordinance banned smoking in nearly all types of restaurants"[/COLOR]




  • 2.
    an authoritative order; a decree.
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]edict, decree, law, injunction, fiat, command, order, rule, ruling, dictum, dictate, directive, mandate"the president issued an ordinance"

    when I ask brother LGF a verse in the NT that cancel killing sabbath violator, he give a verse above.

    He say that verse only cancel ordinance or law that wrote by Moses hand writing


    Do not Ellen g white lie to you dear, read the verse again and again this verse do not say, only Moses handwriting.


    you add the word.

    I know now why he insert the word only Moses hand writing.

    because by insert and change the word, he can lie to people that sabbath law not change.

    repent dear, do not follow man made law, and change the word of God.

    change the Word is declare war against God the almighty

    it mean you in the devil side








    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]




 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,163
268
83
the man who picked up his mat -- not topologically different from a bundle of sticks -- and walked with it kept the sabbath too!

who is wise like our God? no one is like Him!
interesting point

i never thought of that
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
6,163
268
83
You are mixed up with Shadows and God's forever laws. Please read the post above yours in post # 6706 linked and the OP in this thread (linked).

The scriptures in these posts show what the OLD COVENANT IS and how they link to the NEW COVENANT. Do you have anything to add?

What it all boils down to is those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
do you understand the old covenant to be the ten commandments plus all the other rules God gave through Moses?

and the new covenant to be just the ten commandments?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,317
128
63
yes, God's work 7 days a week
Actually Jesus separated the 7th Day from the other 6 as His Father Commanded. Not to do so would be a sin. There are some things that it is lawful to do everyday. Eat, help a brother in need, etc. These are lawful to do even on God's Sabbath. But there are things that are not lawful to do on His Holy Days as Jesus showed when He run the Mainstream Preachers out of the Synagogue on Passover.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,317
128
63
do you understand the old covenant to be the ten commandments plus all the other rules God gave through Moses?

and the new covenant to be just the ten commandments?
Can you show me the scriptures which support this religion?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,555
54
48
The 'God of the Jews' is the pre-incarnate Jesus.
Correct, but did they follow and obey the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

"Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement" (Gittin 57a).

"Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a whore and played the harlot with carpenters" (Sanhedrin, 106a,b).

"[Christ] practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy" (Sanhedrin, 43a).

Under the Talmud's counterfeit Noahide Laws, the worship of Jesus is forbidden under penalty of death, since such worship of Christ is condemned by Judaism as idolatry. Meanwhile various forms of incest are permitted under the Talmudic understanding of the Noahide code. (Enziklopediya Talmudit, note 1, pp. 351-352).

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery: "It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone."

Jesus Christ (the bastard boy who "uncovered his head" was conceived in the filth of menstruation).

"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,555
54
48
ancient manuscripts have no punctuation

it's all translator's choice
The point is, whether there are quotes or not, it was Plato who originally said it.