GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You are trying to further an insidious lie about Saul, and the Pharisees in general. And that is that they were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God's Laws. This lie is very popular with many of your friends, but the Bible exposes it as a lie just the same.

This lie is the foundation of your question, therefore, only a lie will answer it.

Since I believe and understand the Truth that Jesus gave me, which is the Pharisees, including Saul, were not following God's Laws, rather, they were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men, I can't give you the lie you want for your answer.

You can reject the Word's of the Christ, and His apostles and Prophets to protect your religious traditions of you want. But I'm not going to reject them just so you and preserve your lie.

I answered your question with the truth of the Bible. You either believe in the Jesus of the Bible or you don't.
Still not an answer. Basically just slander.


"sad"
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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So then you choose to believe the liars and the hypocrites, vipers and children of the devil when they accuse Jesus of breaking God's Laws, instead of believing the Prophets, the Word's of the Christ and the God of Abraham which tell us the Christ never broke God's Laws.

OK, it's your religion.
ROFL
The ones seeking to kill Jesus used those methods according to the Gospels!! Get your facts straight first!!!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Still not an answer. Basically just slander.

"sad"
Here is it the 3rd time. You asked. I answered.

I'm typing real slow so you might be able to understand this time. Paul is saying that the Man Made traditions he preached as a Pharisee are Fleshy, Not Spiritual.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Paul, before his conversion, followed the Commandments of Men, which are Fleshy, and therefore Jesus didn't "manifest" Himself to Saul. He was the "evil worker", a member of the concision.

Concision Greek; katatome= (to cut) a cutting down, mutilation.

This is speaking to the Mainstream Church of that time. Those who murdered innocent people in the name of their religion. Paul called them dogs.

If the religious traditions and "Commandments of Men" were the true Path to Christ then Paul, above many others, would have known Christ.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:


As Paul told us, He was more Zealous of the "Traditions of His Fathers" and the "Jews Religions" that most. "A Hebrew of the Hebrews".

So if anyone would have reason to trust their Fleshy man made doctrines and commandments of men, it would be Paul.

But the religious Traditions of men caused him to "persecute the Church of God", above others, as it did to the Pharisees for centuries who murdered the Prophets for telling them the truth.

These religious traditions of men blinded him of the truth, while the obedience of Zechariahs allowed him to understand the truth.
Will you actually read and discuss this post, or will you once again deflect and change the subject?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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you know, when a person persistently refuses to give a straight answer to a simple question, it's not the person who keeps trying to get a response that's guilty of "deflection"


Philippians 3:1-11

is Paul listing a group of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) or a list of things that damn the flesh?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
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Will you actually read and discuss this post

total diversion & non-answer, plus, dude it's already been thoroughly discredited many times.

from line one:


I'm typing real slow so you might be able to understand this time. Paul is saying that the Man Made traditions he preached as a Pharisee are Fleshy, Not Spiritual.
that's patently false. "the Law" means "the Law"
it doesn't mean '
man-made traditions'
so nothing else you say based on this lie matters. i read it, sure, but it's based on a lie, and you're deflecting from my point-blank, simple question about Philippians 3, which answer is plainly written right in front of you in that very chapter, in those very verses.

why are you trying to change the scripture?

you and PS both, do you just not like what the Bible says? or just really not understand it? so when y'all read your Bibles, PS thinks the LORD is Satan, and you think the Law is evil human traditions? like some kind of coping mechanism so you can tell yourself you're still a believer?
 
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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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you know, when a person persistently refuses to give a straight answer to a simple question, it's not the person who keeps trying to get a response that's guilty of "deflection"


Philippians 3:1-11

is Paul listing a group of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) or a list of things that damn the flesh?
Your premise of the question is based on a lie. You have said that Paul, as a Pharisee, was obedient to Gods Law, Blameless.

I have shown where your conclusion in this matter can only be made if you deny the Christ and His Words, deny Paul and his words, and deny the Law and the Prophets and their prophesy they made in regards to the Pharisees and whose Law they followed.

You have ignored the entire Bible to preserve this untruth. Why?

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul told me to "beware" of the religious people who do these things.

Now you want me to answer a question based on this falsehood.

If you would acknowledge the Word's of the Christ, and the Word's of Paul and the Prophesy's of the Prophets in regards to what Law the Pharisees followed, God's or theirs, then I would be more than happy to give you an A or B answer.

But since you deflect, re-direct, and refuse to accept the Word's of Christ, what am I to do?

No matter what questions you ask, not matter how many scriptures you reject, Paul never says He followed the Commandments of God, Blameless. The Law of the Pharisees, yes. But not God's Laws.

I admit, I don't know if you are purposefully trying to deceive people, or if you are simply deceived yourself.

But I do know for absolute sure, and have proved without a doubt with scriptures, that the Pharisees, including Paul before his conversion, were NOT following the Commandments of God, but had corrupted God's Laws and created their own.

This is solid Biblical fact that you can not deny using the scriptures available to us.

And since all you do is deflect and change the subject, instead of showing me in the Word where Jesus was wrong about them, I can only assume you know you are preaching a falsehood and are trying to convince others of the same.,

So I gave you your answer, based on the truth of the scriptures, not based on your error regarding the Pharisees and the Law they followed.

You are free to try and make the case that Jesus was wrong about the Pharisees, or that Paul lied about the Pharisees, or that the Prophets lied about the Pharisees.

Or, you could re-think your religious doctrines of the religions of the World and let Jesus teach you about what Law the Pharisees kept.

It's your choice.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Studyman,

I believe this is known as attacking the question.

It is true that some questions are invalid.

For example, if someone asked me Is this the first time you've been pregnant?

In this case, I don't believe posthuman has asked an invalid question.

But if you do, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?

(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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total diversion & non-answer, plus, dude it's already been thoroughly discredited many times.
from line one:
Then it should be very easy for you to show me how it is that the Pharisees, including Paul, were following the Laws of God and not their own. "Many times" you said. "From line one". I would love for you to show me how Jesus is a liar and doesn't know what He is talking about.




that's patently false. "the Law" means "the Law"
it doesn't mean '
man-made traditions'
so nothing else you say based on this lie matters. i read it, sure, but it's based on a lie, and you're deflecting from my point-blank, simple question about Philippians 3, which answer is plainly written right in front of you in that very chapter, in those very verses.


Philippians is a letter written after Paul tells us about the Pharisees and what they did and what Laws they followed. Jesus had already identified who the Pharisees were and what Commandments they followed.

Why would you reject all these scriptures?

why are you trying to change the scripture?
You are the one who is trying to change the scriptures about the Pharisees.

Paul said of them.

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God
into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

But Post preaches they were following the Laws of God, Blameless!!

Paul said of them;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

But Post preaches they were following God's Laws, blameless!!!

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and again;

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

But Post preaches they were obedient to Gods Laws, Blameless.

Jesus said of them;

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word

But Post preaches the Pharisees were following God's Laws, Blameless!!!

Jesus said of them:

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

But Post and his friends preach that the Pharisees, including Paul, were following God's Laws, Blameless!!!

I could go on and on, because the Bible, your Bible, teaches against your religious traditions, just like the Bible exposed the "Law" of the Pharisees as "Commandments of Man" and not from God as you preach.


you and PS both, do you just not like what the Bible says? or just really not understand it? so when y'all read your Bibles, PS thinks the LORD is Satan, and you think the Law is evil human traditions? like some kind of coping mechanism so you can tell yourself you're still a believer?
I can not speak to PS and his religion with you. I can only share what the scriptures say and what my belief is. While it is true that I do not believe your religion, or your traditions. I do believe the Word's of the Bible.

It is my hope that you will SEE the folly in your preaching that the Pharisees, including Paul before his conversion, were following God's Commandments, Blameless.

Zechariahs was, and others like the Wise Men. And they knew Jesus when He came. But not Paul and the Pharisees. They had created their own Laws, their Own Righteousness as it is written. Your unbelief doesn't make the Word of God void.




 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Studyman,

I believe this is known as attacking the question.

It is true that some questions are invalid.

For example, if someone asked me Is this the first time you've been pregnant?

In this case, I don't believe posthuman has asked an invalid question.

But if you do, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?

(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
I believe there are some fundamental truths in the Scriptures which are rejected by "many" who come in Christ's name.

One such truth is that the Pharisees did not obey God, strive to follow God, Love God with all their heart, were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God, etc. I believe this insidious lie is the foundation of many false doctrines.

Zechariahs followed God's Commandments, but Saul and the Pharisees did not. This fundamental truth can be proven again and again with scriptures and there are only a couple of sentences of Paul that can even be twisted enough to counter the entire rest of the Bible.

Post's question was just like the question "did you ever stop beating your wife". No matter what the answer, it would support the premise, which in our case would be a lie. (I hope in your case, :) I know in my case)

Let's establish the truth about the Law the Pharisees followed, which Jesus said were "Commandments of men". The preaching that the Pharisees were trying to follow God's Laws is so old, so settled in the doctrines of the Mainstream Christian church that it is difficult for people to accept anything different. But it wasn't any different in the Days of Paul where "Commandments of men" had been taught as Law for centuries.

The truth is the truth. Our belief or unbelief doesn't change anything.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,319
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Then it should be very easy for you to show me how it is that the Pharisees, including Paul, were following the Laws of God and not their own. "Many times" you said. "From line one". I would love for you to show me how Jesus is a liar and doesn't know what He is talking about.






Philippians is a letter written after Paul tells us about the Pharisees and what they did and what Laws they followed. Jesus had already identified who the Pharisees were and what Commandments they followed.

Why would you reject all these scriptures?



You are the one who is trying to change the scriptures about the Pharisees.

Paul said of them.

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

But Post preaches they were following the Laws of God, Blameless!!

Paul said of them;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

But Post preaches they were following God's Laws, blameless!!!

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and again;

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

But Post preaches they were obedient to Gods Laws, Blameless.

Jesus said of them;

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word

But Post preaches the Pharisees were following God's Laws, Blameless!!!

Jesus said of them:

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

But Post and his friends preach that the Pharisees, including Paul, were following God's Laws, Blameless!!!

I could go on and on, because the Bible, your Bible, teaches against your religious traditions, just like the Bible exposed the "Law" of the Pharisees as "Commandments of Man" and not from God as you preach.


I can not speak to PS and his religion with you. I can only share what the scriptures say and what my belief is. While it is true that I do not believe your religion, or your traditions. I do believe the Word's of the Bible.

It is my hope that you will SEE the folly in your preaching that the Pharisees, including Paul before his conversion, were following God's Commandments, Blameless.

Zechariahs was, and others like the Wise Men. And they knew Jesus when He came. But not Paul and the Pharisees. They had created their own Laws, their Own Righteousness as it is written. Your unbelief doesn't make the Word of God void.







post does not preach that the Pharisees were blameless. HISTORY says that Pharisees , over the time period between the return of Israel, when the N.T. picks up the story, had added the laws to the Torah. the tradition of the elders.

every scholar and historian and Bible commentator and pastor I have ever read or heard acknowledges this, in some fashion.

you and a youtube video are the only ones I have ever heard claim the Pharisees were Satanists.

by the way, I asked you earlier today, why were the Pharisees searching the Scriptures for eternal life if they disregarded them? you never answered.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Studyman,

"Post's question was just like the question "did you ever stop beating your wife".
No matter what the answer, it would support the premise, which in our case would be a lie."


if you honestly thought that, why not simply state that up front the first time the question is asked?

(Perhaps you did and I missed it?)
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Scribes and Pharasees were Isrealites and Jews that were well learned in the Law of Moses.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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again, if you want to stop just ignore this post.

Do you think that identifying the false god in the New Testament is a good topic for Christians to discuss?
There were lots of false teachers in Christ's day and those cults have continued into the present and been discussed endlessly on the forums. Still people hold to their false beliefs as we can see currently. Put it this way it is far easier to drag someone down that it is to lift them up, and so it is with the truth. I have come to think that maybe the devil loves this bickering as it allows him to get a foothold. Satan is very subtle and I feel we need to build each other up, looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith rather that scrambling around in the muck heaps of the cults. :)
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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why are you trying to change the scripture?

you and PS both, do you just not like what the Bible says? or just really not understand it? so when y'all read your Bibles, PS thinks the LORD is Satan, and you think the Law is evil human traditions? like some kind of coping mechanism so you can tell yourself you're still a believer?
Saul worshipped the God of the Jews, right? He persecuted Christians, right?

When Saul met with Jesus in a vision on the Damascus Road, he became a Christian.

Later as Paul, and beginning with the Jews he travelled the known world, a different man with a different message and a different God.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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There were lots of false teachers in Christ's day and those cults have continued into the present and been discussed endlessly on the forums. Still people hold to their false beliefs as we can see currently. Put it this way it is far easier to drag someone down that it is to lift them up, and so it is with the truth. I have come to think that maybe the devil loves this bickering as it allows him to get a foothold. Satan is very subtle and I feel we need to build each other up, looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith rather that scrambling around in the muck heaps of the cults. :)
I agree with you !!! all these FALSE christs JESUS predicted are the work of satan who loves confusion/misunderstanding/arguments which are obviously getting worse and worse as we move toward the end.
I think the first point to remedy this situation is to look at our own DOINGS instead of accusing and blaming others... and in doing so I have found that before labelling another as 'the man of sin' we should consider the SELF being a man or woman of sin....so we don't have much to boast about - do we ?
The only time we should 'stand sure is when we quote the 'Words of GOD...NOT our own !
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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lol you lie boldly, and slander me. is this not your custom?
i read your post.

no answer. complete diversion.

Philippians 3:1-11

is this a list of things that damn the flesh or a list of things that would justify confidence in the flesh ((if such confidence were possible)) ?

simple question. A or B, is it a list of reasons for justifiable confidence in the flesh, or is it not?
Today's understanding of the words "confidence in the flesh" leads us away from the path the Lord wants us to walk. Today most people in the world do have confidence in fleshly things like spas, jewelry, makeup and no confidence in Godly things. Scripture shows us as it pictured a man telling other men he was praying instead of speaking to the Lord. But when church people condemn all God had led His people to do to worship Him in true worship, and calling it confidence in the flesh it is going too far.

It is a fine line to be drawn between saying ways of worship is wrong and saying that it is the worship that is important, not the way of worship.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Phil. 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (Fleshy traditions and doctrines of men)
No. They Sought it not by the Faith but by works of the Law. The Faith of Christ is the Love for and Faith in and of GOD, and the Love of our Fellow man. Without this we can keep all the Book of the Law and the Decalogue and not be saved because our hearts are not right.


Because you have been convinced of the lie that the Pharisees were trying to follow God's Laws you have the Word backwards.
You believe it was the Commandments of God that caused to Pharisees to murder people, when in truth, it was the Commandments of Men.
No they were following the letter of the Law and not the heart of it; LOVE. GOD is LOVE and through Christ as HE is so are we in this Word. This is the foundation of our Faith. The Faith of Christ. Through this we establish the Law. For the LAW depends on LOVE.

God's Word did not condemn Jesus or Stephen. If the Pharisees had been following God's Laws, they would have known Him, as Jesus said.
Only if their hearts were right. Because their hearts were not right they did not recognize he whom they were seeking. Nor were they truly following that which Moses shared. Worse yet as you proclaim and history teaches they added to it.
Paul was converted FROM a religion which transgressed the Commandments of God by their own Traditions, to the Words and instructions of the Word which Became Flesh.
No; Paul converted from the Letter of the Law to the heart of it; LOVE through the unity given to him to Christ. For he was dead nevertheless he lived yet not him but Christ liveth in him and the life he then lived he lived by the Faith of Christ.

This gift is available to us all. For the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the book of the Law) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Book of the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

For Christ (the word; the Book of the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the (letter of the ) law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:4 KJV)

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law (the Letter). For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; (Having no Faith; no heart transformation)
(Rom 9:31-32 KJV)


Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; For it is HE that works in us to both will and do HIS good pleasure. For we are the Temple of the MOST HIGH GOD; the Body of Christ HIS Church. For which a man shall leave father and mother and cleave; and they two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and His Church.
(2Co 3:3-5 KJV)







Like Abraham and Zechariahs did.
Amen!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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like some kind of coping mechanism so you can tell yourself you're still a believer?
He is determined to label genuine believers (who disagree with him) as Pharisees, who have created our own Laws, our own righteousness and he places us all in the same boat of unbelief.

Yet he considers himself a believer, whose righteousness has exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees, which is his own righteousness of following God's Commandments, blamelessly. How many times have we heard that from LGF? :rolleyes:

The righteousness that Jesus was talking about is the same righteousness that the apostle Paul was talking about in Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

The Bible continues to be under attack by SDA's, Hebrew roots and spin off groups who play the same game in salvation as other false movements of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the Gospel. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9) :(
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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post does not preach that the Pharisees were blameless. HISTORY says that Pharisees , over the time period between the return of Israel, when the N.T. picks up the story, had added the laws to the Torah. the tradition of the elders.
Who is "History", I never quoted "history" to come to my conclusion. I quoted the Prophets, Jesus and Paul. Many times.

every scholar and historian and Bible commentator and pastor I have ever read or heard acknowledges this, in some fashion.
I don't know what these other men preach, Jesus specifically warned about "Many" who come in His name. So I stick with scriptures.

you and a youtube video are the only ones I have ever heard claim the Pharisees were Satanists.
Now G9, I simply repeated the Word's of the Christ.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

You preach, as do many of your friends, that the Pharisees were "trying to follow God's Commandments" and not their own religion as the Bible teaches.

This is one of many proofs in the Bible that expose this religious doctrine as false. This false teaching, as a foundation, leads to other falsehoods. "A little leaven leavens the whole lump".

Since I know this, it is incumbent upon me to warn those who have been infected with this lie. I can't help it is some people would rather believe the lie than of the truth.

by the way, I asked you earlier today, why were the Pharisees searching the Scriptures for eternal life if they disregarded them? you never answered.
I asked for you to please show me where I am twisting scriptures and help a brother out. You ignored me again, as you have done many times.

The scripture you refer to makes my point regarding the Pharisees.

They claimed to be "children of Abraham" but didn't do the works of Abraham.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

They claimed to be "children of God".

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

They claimed to follow the Law of Moses.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

and again.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

They also claimed to believe in the Word of God.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

If they really believed the scriptures they would have listened and obeyed God, like Zechariahs did.

This is why Jesus called them "liars" and "Hypocrites", vipers, and "children of satan". It's in your Bible, all you have to do is believe it.

So G9, you guys reject all these scriptures, and many many more, in order to preserve a belief that is false.

Why would you do that? What is so important about this insidious lie "The Pharisees were trying to "Earn" Salvation by following the letter of God's Law", that you and your friends would go to such lengths to protect it?

I just don't get it.