GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Studyman, I am convinced that you're the one promoting religious traditions.


Yes, I believe that is what the text implies. We are no longer under the law. Read Galatians, and Romans.


Gen 3:
22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Galatians and Romans are not the only Books in the Bible. And I have studied them, but without the Word's and instructions of the Word which became Flesh, it is impossible to understand them.. Being under the Law means being Dead in the context of the verse you chose to create you religion around.

Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. This is in your Bible as well.

Regarding Genesis.

So in your religion satan didn't deceive Eve, it was telling her the truth about God all along.

Well that explains a lot.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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just for you and others who may not know studyman that well- he thinks the Pharisees were Satanists , and the thief on the cross that Christ forgave already knew and accepted Him as Lord, before they were crucified. just so you know .
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. (How did he know this?)

Yes I believe in the Jesus of the Bible even if you don't. And I am not ashamed of it.
 
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So here is what Paul said about the written word compared to the living Spirit. I love you all. Keep the Faith, and please dont think im saying not to read, but to find the balance between the word you read, and the Living word that teaches things daily that are new for each of our individual spirits. I rely on the calling of the Spirit in me, because it is the Divider of all truths.
 
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2 Corinthians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. (How did he know this?)

Yes I believe in the Jesus of the Bible even if you don't. And I am not ashamed of it.
oh, I believe in the Jesus of the Bible. I just happen to believe all His words, not just the ones who support a religion.

Jesus said " whosoever believes in Me shall be saved "' I do.

Jesus said if you love me , keep My commands.

see, because I believe in the truth of Trinity instead of the falsehood of oneness. I understand that He was not referring to the Torah, because he went on to explain the Father, Son, and Sprit. as different entities.

Jesus gave plenty of commands. sermon on the mount, sermon on the plain. the last supper discourse in John. he did not say " my Father's commands. he said my commands. He freely talked about the Father. He freely gave His own commands.



so, to believe in your religion , I would have to believe that Jesus said " I will pray to myself, and I will send Me back".

Jesus said " I and the Father are One ". He also said " My Father is greater than I ". how does one explain this? one does not. one accepts the mystery of the Godhead? do you?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Galatians and Romans are not the only Books in the Bible.
That's right. But they are written to Christians, and Galatians was written to the Galatians, who were forsaking their being made righteous by faith and were trying to put themselves back under the law.

And I have studied them, but without the Word's and instructions of the Word which became Flesh, it is impossible to understand them.. Being under the Law means being Dead in the context of the verse you chose to create you religion around.
Being under the law means forsaking righteousness by faith and trying to become righteous by keeping the law.

Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. This is in your Bible as well.
Yes, it is. v13 is written for people who are trying to keep themselves under the law.

Regarding Genesis.

So in your religion satan didn't deceive Eve, it was telling her the truth about God all along.

Well that explains a lot.
Satan did deceive Eve. But not everything Satan said to her was a lie. Notice what God Himself said:

Gen 3:
22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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2 Corinthians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Seems simple and clear to me.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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oh, I believe in the Jesus of the Bible. I just happen to believe all His words, not just the ones who support a religion.

Jesus said " whosoever believes in Me shall be saved "' I do.

Jesus said if you love me , keep My commands.

see, because I believe in the truth of Trinity instead of the falsehood of oneness. I understand that He was not referring to the Torah, because he went on to explain the Father, Son, and Sprit. as different entities.

Jesus gave plenty of commands. sermon on the mount, sermon on the plain. the last supper discourse in John. he did not say " my Father's commands. he said my commands. He freely talked about the Father. He freely gave His own commands.
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

so, to believe in your religion , I would have to believe that Jesus said " I will pray to myself, and I will send Me back".

Jesus said " I and the Father are One ". He also said " My Father is greater than I ". how does one explain this? one does not. one accepts the mystery of the Godhead? do you?[
If you truly believe His father is greater that Jesus, you would listen to Him and Follow His Instructions as Jesus did and instructed us all to do. Not preach against them.

And will you apologize for your lies regarding the foundation of my belief that the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, which had created images of God in the likeness of man, which were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men and not God, who had created their own righteousness, were children of satan and not of God?

Of course not. It's not about the Bible with you, it's about the preservation of your religious traditions. Just as it was for the mainstream preachers of Christ's time who never apologized to Jesus or Paul for making up lies about them.

Same story, same theme, just different century. Surely there is nothing new under the sun.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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That's right. But they are written to Christians, and Galatians was written to the Galatians, who were forsaking their being made righteous by faith and were trying to put themselves back under the law.


Being under the law means forsaking righteousness by faith and trying to become righteous by keeping the law.


Yes, it is. v13 is written for people who are trying to keep themselves under the law.
What Law? Love God with all your heart? Love your neighbor as yourself? Or was it back under the Pharisees version of the "Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins that was "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham?

Satan did deceive Eve. But not everything Satan said to her was a lie. Notice what God Himself said:

Gen 3:
22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
The point of story is this, that had Eve listened to God and His instructions instead of satan and it's instructions, as Abraham did, she would have been remembered as "Faithful Eve as Abraham is remembered as "Faithful Abraham. I agree with your statement that satan's religion is "Almost" like God's, that not everything in satan's deception is a lie. But it deceived Eve by mixing lies with truth. I believe this is the tactic it uses to deceive the whole world. AS Jesus warned;


Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


There is only one group of people on the planet who "Comes in Christ's name, and that preaches that Jesus is truly the Christ. It isn't Islam or Atheists. The only group of people on the planet that fit this description is "Christianity".

So of course they will mix truth with lies as did the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, the Pharisees.

Easy to see for those who, by the Grace of God, has escaped their deception, much more difficult for those who are still captured by it.

So the Bible doesn't teach anywhere that Jesus eliminated God's Instructions, just the opposite. But the religion of the land preaches He did. This is a perfect example of deceiving people by mixing the truth "Jesus is the true Messiah" with the lie "Jesus eliminated His Father's instructions. Jesus has given us the perfect escape from this deception, it's just that people don't really believe enough to take the leap of faith..

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And again;

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This is why Zechariahs knew Jesus when He came, and Paul and the Pharisees didn't.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Studyman, please try to format your posts properly. In order to respond, I have to copy/paste your statements into this response.

Studyman said:
shrume said:
Yes, it is. v13 [Rom 2:13] is written for people who are trying to keep themselves under the law.
What Law? Love God with all your heart? Love your neighbor as yourself? Or was it back under the Pharisees version of the "Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins that was "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham?
The Mosaic law. The law Israel was required to attempt to keep in order to remain in good standing with God. Circumcision, keeping the sabbath, food restrictions, and more.

There is a LOT in God's Torah that is good godly and moral instruction for today. Love God, love your neighbor, help people, protect people, etc, etc, and we should endeavor to practice those things.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Studyman, please try to format your posts properly. In order to respond, I have to copy/paste your statements into this response.


The Mosaic law. The law Israel was required to attempt to keep in order to remain in good standing with God. Circumcision, keeping the sabbath, food restrictions, and more.

There is a LOT in God's Torah that is good godly and moral instruction for today. Love God, love your neighbor, help people, protect people, etc, etc, and we should endeavor to practice those things.
But none of this things you mentioned were ever part of the Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works of the Law" to be performed by the Levite Priest for the remission of sins. God's Law that He gave to Moses included a "Law" that was specifically for the Levites, not the rest of the people. This "LAW" was instated as a "Shadow" of the sacrifice God would make for them when the time came. This is the Law" that was "Changed" as Jer. 31 and Hebrews 7 shows. The Pharisees didn't believe Jesus was the High Priest so they continued to perform and to preach these duties, or their version of it, as Moses instructed, for the remission of sins. Without the cleansing of sins one could not be made righteous. since they didn't believe in the Messiah, they continued to seek "righteousness by the Law", not Faith in the Messiah as the Old Testament taught. "the Just shall live by faith".

The catholic church deemed that there was no difference between God's Laws for the people, and God's Laws for the Priesthood.

Paul never taught this, He understood the difference.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Abraham had Laws from God, but not the Priesthood as Levi wasn't even born yet. Abraham was justified "Apart" from this Law. But he wasn't justified by rejecting God's Laws and creating his own religion as did the mainstream preachers of Christ's time.

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The refusal to separate the "Law of Faith" which teaches us how to Love God and How to love our neighbors, from the temporal "Priesthood" with it's "Law of Works" for remission of sins is a huge deception that is perpetrated by those who Jesus warned of.

I hope you might consider these things.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I'm fine with following whatever rules it was that Abraham followed

If by follow I mean follow spiritually

It's when someone starts talking about following those rules physically that I think That doesn't sound right
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Being under the Law means being Dead in the context of the verse you chose to create you religion around.

Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. This is in your Bible as well.
no it doesn't.

the context of Romans 7:1 is not Romans 2:11.

you should probably keep reading in Romans.

Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the Law and boast in God; if you know His will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the Law; if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth . . .
(Romans 2:17-20)

oh, you think you are saved, because you have the Law? thank God you are not like those 'sinners' ?

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the Law; rather, through the Law we become conscious of our sin.
(Romans 3:19-20)

oh.
wait, don't tell me, in the Studyman Standard Version "no one" doesn't mean "no one" -- it means everyone except Studyman. especially pharisees? lol. w/e


no flesh is justified by the Law.
the Law means the Law. none means none.
it doesn't matter what your privately altered version says.


keep reading.

don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
(Romans 6:3)
did you know that?
Christ's death.


For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him.
The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
(Romans 6:9-10)

once for all. impossible that death should in any way ever have any dominion whatsoever over Him.

So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
(Romans 6:11)

"so you too"
in the exact same way, if ye be found in Him.
with no possibility of death ((the sting of sin - 1 Corinthians 15:56)) having any more dominion.
once and for all ((John 11:25-26 -- do you believe Him? or not?))


For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(Colossians 3:3)

oh look!
praytell what could be the consequences of this? of Romans 6?


Do you not know, brothers (for I am speaking to those who know the Law), that the Law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?
(Romans 7:1)

what??!!

surely God is not this great in mercy!
the mechanism of my salvation, the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ, has made me truly free??
sin has no more power over me? ((the power of sin is the Law - 1 Corinthians 15:56))


nah nah.
not in Studydude's abrogated version.
in that version, Christ died for nothing and we're perfected by flesh and the worthless, futile, pestilent will of man.
sin still has power ((the power of sin is the Law - 1 Corinthians 15:56)), sin still has sting, sin still has dominion, there is no such thing as 'salvation' - that word means something else entirely, probably.


hey, outside of your cup looks nice tho :)
((not really))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I'm fine with following whatever rules it was that Abraham followed

If by follow I mean follow spiritually

It's when someone starts talking about following those rules physically that I think That doesn't sound right
yeah, sounds almost . . .

. . pharisetical

((my God seems to love irony, have you noticed?))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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nah nah.
not in Studydude's abrogated version.
in that version, Christ died for nothing and we're perfected by flesh and the worthless, futile, pestilent will of man.
sin still has power ((the power of sin is the Law - 1 Corinthians 15:56)), sin still has sting, sin still has dominion, there is no such thing as 'salvation' - that word means something else entirely, probably.
i should say, so i gather from what he says. but i don't think he's thought all the implications through, just like the believing pharisees at the council of Jerusalem hadn't understood what it was they were asking be done, when they argued that the Gentiles should be keeping the Law of Moses.

So he'd never put it in those words, just like those brothers wouldn't have said, 'we must make the cross of Christ of no effect' - they thought they were right, and arguing for what was right.
But they were wrong; they didn't understand.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. This is in your Bible as well.


the context of Romans 7:1 is not Romans 2:11.
What happened to Law means Law? Justified means justified, doers mean doers?

Oh, That only counts when you need to promote your ancient religious traditions. I see.

I don't agree with your religious tradition of using one verse to destroy another. I believe all scriptures fit together and support each other. I can't erase so much of the Word's of God as you do, simply to promote catholic religious traditions. You are free to continue in them if you like. I have made my case using ALL of God's Word and you have rejected it. Same story as the mainstream preachers of Christ's time, just different century.

As Jesus Himself said;

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

There is no reason to continue a discussion where you refuse to acknowledge or discuss scriptures which bring your religious tradition into question. I have gone over these verses you do accept and already given what the Bible teaches they mean, IMO.

Thankfully God, in His Tender Mercy, has already prepared me for the teaching of the religions of the land. So your religion is no surprise.

Jer. 16:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Same story, different century. Surely there is nothing new under the sun.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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we may wish to remember that the word "many" used in Matthew 24:5

is not the same as "majority"

Jesus is not saying that the majority of people who come in his name will be deceivers.
or that the majority will be deceived.


in that verse Jesus also gives the specific message that those deceivers will bring,
they will claim to be the Christ,
they will claim to be the Messiah.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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we may wish to remember that the word "many" used in Matthew 24:5

is not the same as "majority"

Jesus is not saying that the majority of people who come in his name will be deceivers.
or that the majority will be deceived.


in that verse Jesus also gives the specific message that those deceivers will bring,
they will claim to be the Christ,
they will claim to be the Messiah.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This is saying that "many" will come in His Name.

Every self proclaimed Christian preacher since the Pope claims to "Come in the Name of Jesus Christ". Every single one of them Preach Jesus is truly the Christ.

Mormons, Catholics, AOG, Methodists, Baptists, the list goes on and on. They all "come in Christ's name, preaching that Jesus is truly the Son of God. Not the Jews Dan, Jesus isn't talking about Jews who don't preach He is the Son of God, who don't come in the Name of Jesus. Not Islam, who doesn't come in Christ's name, who don't preach that Jesus is truly the Christ. But Self Proclaimed Christians, that is who jesus warned about in the last days.

It's right there in your Bible.

These who come in His name will claim that Jesus is the Christ, not that they are the Christ. At least that's what the text says. How could man deceive anyone by claiming he is God? But claiming he is from God, or was sent by God (in His Name) that guy could deceive, like the Protestants claim the Pope did..

Paul says basically the same thing in another place.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

They don't transform themselves into Christ as your preaching suggests, they become "ministers" of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Why would "Many" follow a Path to destruction? Could it be because they have been convinced by the father of lies that their Path leads to life, not destruction? Isn't that what satan convinced Eve of in the first place? And once again Jesus says "Many" will "go in" on the broad Path followed by the majority. This is in perfect line with the theme through out the Bible. Caleb vs. the rest of the Jews. Noah vs. the people of the world. Abraham vs. Sodom and Gomorrah, The Pharisees vs. Zechariahs and Elizabeth, Stephen vs. the Mainstream Church of his time, Jesus and the Mainstream Jewish religion which taught for doctrines the commandments of men, the examples continue.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

or that the majority will be deceived
"Few" is not the majority no matter what scriptures you alter to try and make it this way.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This is my issue with your modern religion. You have the tradition first, then you try and make the scriptures fit it. And when someone sheds light on this, you stop your ears and close your eyes. IMO.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. This is in your Bible as well.


What happened to Law means Law? Justified means justified, doers mean doers?
nothing happened at all; you either just fail to understand what has been told to you and you have read, or you willfully look for something to argue about, because being contrary is all you know to do. i don't know which it is.

you said "
being under the Law means death in the context of" Romans 7:1
and quoted Romans 2:11-13 as though this is the context of Romans 7.
it's not.
the Law means the Law. do you think Romans 7 is talking about a different "
the Law" ?

you're confused. read the rest of Romans 2, then Romans 3-5.
no one is justified by the Law: no one "
does" it.
only Jesus Christ.
if you could be justified by the Law, Christ died for nothing.
Paul is making a complex argument, laying out a systematic theology reasoning that salvation is found in Jesus Christ, and nowhere else: for all have sinned, both those under the Law and those not under it. no one is justified by the Law. i already quoted this to you ((why do you accuse me of '
building a religion from one verse' ? i give you dozens, daily! aren't you yourself trying to do the exact same thing you accuse others of? hey - doesn't Romans 2:21-24 attest to exactly this? i left off quoting it to you yesterday to avoid shaming you, but you ask for it today!))

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
(Romans 3:9)

only by becoming immersed into His death is there salvation from sin and death.
and guess what happens when you die in Him? you are no longer under the Law. Romans 7:1

i realize you've boasted of having
'studied' Romans & Galatians, but you're demonstrating to us all that you need to go back and 'hit the books' some more.

what do you think, the death in Romans 2:11 is the same death as Romans 7:1 ?
then in that case, all have sinned - Romans 3:23 - so all perish, with or without the Law, and by your reasoning, via Romans 7:1 ((if this were the same, do you claim?)) no one is under the Law.
that's not what scripture says though. the death in Romans 7:1 is the death of Romans 6: Christ's death, and He did not perish by being condemned by the Law, but gave Himself as our ransom.

do you believe it?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This is saying that "many" will come in His Name.

Every self proclaimed Christian preacher since the Pope claims to "Come in the Name of Jesus Christ". Every single one of them Preach Jesus is truly the Christ.

Mormons, Catholics, AOG, Methodists, Baptists, the list goes on and on. They all "come in Christ's name, preaching that Jesus is truly the Son of God. Not the Jews Dan, Jesus isn't talking about Jews who don't preach He is the Son of God, who don't come in the Name of Jesus. Not Islam, who doesn't come in Christ's name, who don't preach that Jesus is truly the Christ. But Self Proclaimed Christians, that is who jesus warned about in the last days.

It's right there in your Bible.

These who come in His name will claim that Jesus is the Christ, not that they are the Christ. At least that's what the text says. How could man deceive anyone by claiming he is God? But claiming he is from God, or was sent by God (in His Name) that guy could deceive, like the Protestants claim the Pope did..

Paul says basically the same thing in another place.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

They don't transform themselves into Christ as your preaching suggests, they become "ministers" of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Why would "Many" follow a Path to destruction? Could it be because they have been convinced by the father of lies that their Path leads to life, not destruction? Isn't that what satan convinced Eve of in the first place? And once again Jesus says "Many" will "go in" on the broad Path followed by the majority. This is in perfect line with the theme through out the Bible. Caleb vs. the rest of the Jews. Noah vs. the people of the world. Abraham vs. Sodom and Gomorrah, The Pharisees vs. Zechariahs and Elizabeth, Stephen vs. the Mainstream Church of his time, Jesus and the Mainstream Jewish religion which taught for doctrines the commandments of men, the examples continue.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



"Few" is not the majority no matter what scriptures you alter to try and make it this way.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This is my issue with your modern religion. You have the tradition first, then you try and make the scriptures fit it. And when someone sheds light on this, you stop your ears and close your eyes. IMO.
I think claiming that in Matthew 24 Jesus is saying that the deceivers will claim that Jesus is the Christ

is absurd.

first there is the following context

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

it is clearly because the deceivers are claiming to be the Christ that there would be rumors that the Christ was out in the desert.
also that approach could lead to some truly strange results
And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though
Jesus
fear not God, nor regard man;
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke18&version=KJV


"They don't transform themselves into Christ as your preaching suggests..."
no, I do not suggest that. What I was saying is that Matthew 24:5 says that the deceivers would claim to be the Christ, the Messiah.

I don't believe the context of Matthew 7: 13 and 14 supports the interpretation that the section is talking about the deceivers who claimed to be the Messiah.
I do not have a modern religion.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;


2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)


3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John1&version=KJV


your post does not shed light,
it begins with an absurd interpretation. Imo