GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I don't agree with your religious tradition of using one verse to destroy another.
i might believe you if we haven't all been watching you try to do exactly what you slanderously accuse me of, for 6mo or more now.

Romans 2:1 does not destroy Romans 3:23. it does not destroy Romans 4:5. it does not destroy Romans 7:1. it does not destroy Galatians. it does not destroy Colossians. it does not destroy Philippians.

we are not "lawless" as you always accuse -- but we are not under Moses Law. Romans 2:1 does not destroy Acts 15. Matthew 15:9 does not destroy the gospel. Matthew 5:18 does not destroy the gospel. we are saved by grace through faith, not works, and our salvation is secure because the One who holds us is Faithful and True.

we know who the Accuser is, and we have a Defender in that court, constantly making intercession for us. your constant condemnation is in vain, sorry :)

((not really; fake sorry))
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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There is humor above in my post
The wink is an artifact of the copy paste
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Thankfully God, in His Tender Mercy, has already prepared me for the teaching of the religions of the land. So your religion is no surprise.

mhmm.

If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not bridle his tongue,
he deceives his heart and his religion is worthless.
(James 1:27)
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you,
along with all malice.
(Ephesians 4:31)
please go read Romans, all of it.
daily.
and have another 50 looks at Galatians. i really think it will do you good :)
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes, James 1:27

I've had that thought about several users here on CC.
One believes themself to have a handle on -whatever- and they post like that?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Yes, James 1:27

I've had that thought about several users here on CC.
One believes themself to have a handle on -whatever- and they post like that?
yes

it makes me think of a number of users, in the opposite sense, too.
like, Magenta comes to mind. it's been a long time since i've ever heard any unkind word come from her mouth; and i think, i should be like this - bless and nah curse
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. (How did he know this?)

Yes I believe in the Jesus of the Bible even if you don't. And I am not ashamed of it.
So do you believe the thief on the cross accept Jesus before he is on the cross?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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nothing happened at all; you either just fail to understand what has been told to you and you have read, or you willfully look for something to argue about, because being contrary is all you know to do. i don't know which it is.
you said "being under the Law means death in the context of" Romans 7:1
and quoted Romans 2:11-13 as though this is the context of Romans 7.
it's not.
the Law means the Law. do you think Romans 7 is talking about a different "
the Law" ?


No, not at all.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You seem to preach that the reason the Law killed us is because we followed it. And Jesus saved us by paying the death our obedience caused so we can create your own religion now, each to his own, and transgress the Commandments of God by our own religious traditions.

I don't believe this preaching. I believe what Paul teaches.

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But I already broke His Commandments, so I am "dead in my sins", I am under the "curse" of the Law, "the wages of sin is death". But Jesus has freed me from this death, He has given me a new chance to "Pick up my cross and follow Him" this time, instead of guiding my own footsteps which caused my death in the first place, I will not only have His Commandments, but this time I will strive, with His help, to follow His Instructions. Not the religions of the land as you preach, but the righteous instructions of the Word which became Flesh.



you're confused. read the rest of Romans 2, then Romans 3-5.
no one is justified by the Law: no one "
does" it.
only Jesus Christ.


I'm not confused, I just know what the scripture says.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What was this chapter talking about in the first place?

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Unbelief in What? That Jesus is the Messiah, will you also deny this Biblical fact? So if they didn't believe in the Messiah, then they didn't believe in His Promise in Jer. 31. And if they didn't "BELIEVE" in the Promise in Jer. 31, then they would still be performing the duties and service of the Levitical Priesthood. What were the duties of this "Law"? To administer God's Laws to the people, and to perform sacrificial ceremonial "Work's of the Law" for atonement of sins. Paul is telling the Gentiles that these Jews were depending on these "Works" or "Deeds" of the Law for remission of sins instead of Faith in the Messiah, like Abraham did, who had God's Laws, but didn't have the Priesthood which wasn't added until 430 years later.

You don't know this because your knowledge comes from men and not from the Word of God. I am telling this to you because it is true and the Bible confirms this truth both in every scripture in the NT and in every scripture in the OT. There is the "law of Faith" that Abraham had, and the "Law of Works" that was added 430 years after Abraham. Paul is explaining this in Gal. 3, and Romans 3. Man is not justified by the works or deeds of the Laws given to Moses for the atonement of sins. But the Law of Faith, Love the Lord, and Love your neighbors, and God's instructions on how to follow them are required as Paul said in Rom. 2 and

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And again;

19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (ALL) should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

the same Jesus you claim to honor said; "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

So it isn't me who is confused about Paul's teaching, it is you.

if you could be justified by the Law, Christ died for nothing.
Paul is making a complex argument, laying out a systematic theology reasoning that salvation is found in Jesus Christ, and nowhere else: for all have sinned, both those under the Law and those not under it. no one is justified by the Law. i already quoted this to you ((why do you accuse me of '
building a religion from one verse' ? i give you dozens, daily! aren't you yourself trying to do the exact same thing you accuse others of? hey - doesn't Romans 2:21-24 attest to exactly this? i left off quoting it to you yesterday to avoid shaming you, but you ask for it today!))


You twist the same few scriptures the Pope uses to support his religion. You refuse to even acknowledge my posts other than replying with a scripture you think beats up, or makes Void, all the other verses in the Bible.

Please post scriptures, I am all about God's words, All of them.

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision (Gentiles) keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Why is God's Name Blasphemed through the Jews?? Because they honored God with obedience as did Abraham and Zechariahs and Caleb and Noah and the rest of the examples of Faith in the Bible? Or is it because they transgressed the Commandments of God by their religious traditions? Of course you can't answer thins. Paul is once again exposing your religion.

27 And shall not uncircumcision (Gentiles) which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Just because they are Jews doesn't give them the license to sin against God, and if a Gentile "turns to God" in repentance isn't his obedience considered "Circumcision"? will the obedient Gentile not judge the disobedient Jew?

No Post, I am not confused, but you sure are.

 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
(Romans 3:9)
Yes, we have all rejected God's Words and instructions. But we don't have to. Jesus cleared the way for us to be a "new man"

Eph. 4:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

All men are brought to this reality as Paul reminds us in Rom. 3:, from the Old Testament where he gets his knowledge from.. All men are naturally Evil.

Jer. 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

But we don't have to guide our own footsteps, we can submit to God's Righteousness, repent and start anew.

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. And again as Jesus instructs, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Is it righteous to Judge God or His Word's? Is it righteous to create images of God in the likeness of men? Is it righteous to reject God's Words and create our own religious High Days, etc? You preach everything but obedience to God is righteous.

I don't believe you.

The scriptures all flow together and they as carry the same message.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:


7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Your preaching that people can't repent and turn to God is a lie Post. Abel did, Abraham did, Caleb did, Zechariahs did, the wise men did, Ananias did, Cornelius did. And what do they all have in common? They Knew Jesus when He came to them. They had a "Different Spirit" on them as the scriptures say about Caleb who followed God "wholly". Something you and the Pope preach can't be done. And why did they have this different Spirit? The Jesus of the Bible tells us flat out.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Just as he has done since the beginning.

This is why Zechariahs and the Wise men knew Jesus when He came, and Paul and the Pharisees didn't. Will you also reject this Biblical Truth?

Does your unbelief make these truths Void? No Post, your unbelief doesn't change scriptures even one bit.

God doesn't have to change His Ways as you imply, we are the evil ones, we are the ones who NEED His Instructions on how to Love Him and how to Love our neighbors. These were created for us, not Him.

only by becoming immersed into His death is there salvation from sin and death.
and guess what happens when you die in Him? you are no longer under the Law. Romans 7:1
i realize you've boasted of having 'studied' Romans & Galatians, but you're demonstrating to us all that you need to go back and 'hit the books' some more.


No amount of "study" will justify your religious traditions Post. No amount of Study will make God's instructions "Rudiments of the World, or a burden on mankind as you preach.

what do you think, the death in Romans 2:11 is the same death as Romans 7:1 ?
then in that case, all have sinned - Romans 3:23 - so all perish, with or without the Law, and by your reasoning, via Romans 7:1 ((if this were the same, do you claim?)) no one is under the Law.
that's not what scripture says though. the death in Romans 7:1 is the death of Romans 6: Christ's death, and He did not perish by being condemned by the Law, but gave Himself as our ransom.
Rom. 7 "Under the Law" means death. Christ was born "Under the old Priesthood". You don't believe Paul, so it would be a waste of time to show you the evidence of this.

Rom. 6:
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Obedience to what Post. The Pope, Jimmy Swaggert? Or is Paul talking about the Law of faith.

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

What doctrine did Paul deliver to you Post?

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom. 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Shall we continue to "Transgress the Commandments of God" by our ancient religious traditions?


2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

do you believe it?
I believe every Word of God Post, I just don't believe in your religious traditions.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Acts 13- Paul - v.38- 39- ….I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sin is proclaimed to you. through Him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the Law.

why look, right there in your Bible. as clear of a declaration as one could ask for. now, before you start your half a dozen laws non-sense, then explain why the same greek is used 192 or so times for the word law.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I think claiming that in Matthew 24 Jesus is saying that the deceivers will claim that Jesus is the Christ

is absurd.

first there is the following context

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
I think you omitted a very important part of Christ's Words here.

Verse 8: 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It seems a little deceptive how you omitted this part, and continued on as if it wasn't there.

it is clearly because the deceivers are claiming to be the Christ that there would be rumors that the Christ was out in the desert.
also that approach could lead to some truly strange results
And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though
Jesus
fear not God, nor regard man;
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke18&version=KJV
"They don't transform themselves into Christ as your preaching suggests..."
no, I do not suggest that. What I was saying is that Matthew 24:5 says that the deceivers would claim to be the Christ, the Messiah.
Except He doesn't say that. He says they will come in His Name, preaching He is the Christ, not them. Jesus was speaking to them. He didn't say "Many will come in My name saying "they" are the Christ. He said "Many" will Come in His Name saying "I" Jesus, am the Christ.

What is absurd is your preaching that you nor anyone before you, nor anyone until the tribulation has to worry about the "many" who come in His Name to deceive. You all just wait around for some man to call himself Jesus, and until then you eat whatever leaven the Mainstream Preachers of your time throw at you. That is absurd given the many warnings, and the example written for our admonition.

What is absurd is the preaching that you and generations before you are immune to the deception Jesus and Paul warns about over and over, that only those few in the very last says will be subject to men claiming to be God in the Flesh. All the while following a religion that transgresses the Commandments of God by their traditions.

I don't believe the context of Matthew 7: 13 and 14 supports the interpretation that the section is talking about the deceivers who claimed to be the Messiah.
I do not have a modern religion.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
It doesn't, because the deceivers who trick people into the broad Path don't claim to be the Messiah. They claim to come in His Name, and they preach eternal life by their religious traditions. This is the theme of this chapter, "Many will say to me in that Day "Lord, Lord". But Jesus doesn't know them. Why??? Was it because they created their own religion with their own definition of what is "Good" and rejected God's instructions regarding these things? Maybe it was because they rejected God's instructions and created their own religious High Days, their own image of God after the likeness of man.

Well you can't deny there are "MANY" who come in Christ's Name, who preach that Jesus is truly the Christ, who teach men to do these very things now, which are in direct violation to the First and Greatest Commandment. If this is true, then Jesus warnings are spot on are they not?

And you can't deny that it was the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time who corrupted everyone who followed their ancient religious traditions.

Who has convinced you that man can do these things and Jesus doesn't care? Certainly not Jesus. Maybe they have been deceived by one of the "MANY" who Come in Christ's Name, preaching that Jesus is truly the Christ. (Not Jews)
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Dan_473 said:
What I was saying is that Matthew 24:5 says that the deceivers would claim to be the Christ, the Messiah.
Studyman said:
Except He doesn't say that. He says they will come in His Name, preaching He is the Christ, not them. Jesus was speaking to them. He didn't say "Many will come in My name saying "they" are the Christ. He said "Many" will Come in His Name saying "I" Jesus, am the Christ.
I think you need to read it again. Check some other translations.

Many will come in his name, saying "I am the Christ".

People will come claiming to be the Christ, and will deceive many.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Acts 13- Paul - v.38- 39- ….I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sin is proclaimed to you. through Him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the Law.
This is true, Jesus was their High Priest now, The Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement if sins, as the Law of Moses prescribed, has been replaced by the Promise of the Word which became Flesh in Jer. 31.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Jews didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, but I do. Blessed be the Name of the Lord Jesus.

why look, right there in your Bible. as clear of a declaration as one could ask for. now, before you start your half a dozen laws non-sense, then explain why the same greek is used 192 or so times for the word law.
I don't need a Moody Bible school course to figure this one out. This is Bible 101, you should be way past this simple truth.

When you admit that it was you who was wrong about Jesus calling the Pharisees "children of satan", then I might be obliged to answer another question.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I think you need to read it again. Check some other translations.

Many will come in his name, saying "I am the Christ".

People will come claiming to be the Christ, and will deceive many.
First, my understanding is gained by taking the examples of preachers through out the Bible that deceived the people who listened to them. Coupled with the warning of Jesus and the apostles about how satan deceives. I know what He said and what He meant.

You are free to exempt yourself from this warning and set around and wait for some man to claim he is God in the Flesh. But I know from study that Jesus wasn't saying to do that.

He didn't say as you assume; He said;

Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, 'I am the Messiah!' and they will fool many people

He didn't say;

Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, 'they are the Messiah!' and they will fool many people

Again;

For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will mislead many.

He didn't say;

For many will come in my name, saying, 'They are the Christ,' and they will mislead many.

I think you should rethink your understanding of this scripture, maybe you might find a connection with;

REv. 18:
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


Good News Translation
Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, 'I am the Messiah!' and they will fool many people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Messiah,' and they will deceive many.

International Standard Version
because many will come in my name and say, 'I'm the Messiah,' and they will deceive many people.

NET Bible
For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will mislead many.

New Heart English Bible
For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah,' and will lead many astray.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For many will come in my name, and they will say. 'I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Messiah', and they will deceive many.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Many will come using my name. They will say, 'I am the Messiah,' and they will deceive many people.

New American Standard 1977
“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and shall deceive many.

King James 2000 Bible
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

American King James Version
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

American Standard Version
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many.

Darby Bible Translation
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they shall mislead many.

English Revised Version
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I think you need to read it again. Check some other translations.

Many will come in his name, saying "I am the Christ".

People will come claiming to be the Christ, and will deceive many.
Christ means anointed. I think during the Jewish revolt from about 67-70AD there were a number of insurgents and revolutionaries who claimed to be anointed by GOD to deliver Israel from the Romans. Josephus mentions them in Wars of the Jews. That may be what Jesus was referring to.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Christ means anointed. I think during the Jewish revolt from about 67-70AD there were a number of insurgents and revolutionaries who claimed to be anointed by GOD to deliver Israel from the Romans. Josephus mentions them in Wars of the Jews. That may be what Jesus was referring to.
I don’t think Matt 24 has anything to do with 70AD. I believe Jesus was speaking about the trib.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Studyman,

the post was not deceptive, I quoted the parts that were most relevant to the context. Anyone is welcome to read the full chapter.

"He says they will come in His Name, preaching He is the Christ, not them."

no Jesus does not say that. Such an exegesis is absurd, in my opinion.


the rest of your post is built upon misunderstandings of what I said, and what I consider to be an absurd interpretation of Matthew 24:5, as mentioned above.

given that you want to deal in the absurd, I can see no benefit to my continuing on the subject.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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He didn't say as you assume; He said;

Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, 'I am the Messiah!' and they will fool many people
I believe that is precisely what he meant.