GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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"No doubt I am a nobody."

You are not a nobody. Lack of reading ability is nothing to be embarrassed about, any more than being color blind or left-handed.

"But maybe Jesus is just right..."

it's not a matter of Jesus being right, it's a matter of being able to read his written words.

"...preserve ancient religious tradition, which seems to be your motivation."

no, my motivation is to grow in wisdom and knowledge.


"You are free to ignore the support I post for my beliefs."

I am discussing Matthew 24:5.
in my opinion, you have an absurd interpretation of it. let's deal with that before we move on to other verses.


"If you want to create your doctrine around one comma..."

no. the issue is a comma, and more importantly, quotation marks.

'But my choice to include the Whole Bible, different translations, and real life experiences doesn't equate to "Lack of reading ability" '

you are correct. here's what leads me to suspect that you have a lack of reading ability:
you don't seem to understand the role of the quotation marks in the translations that you posted above.
and you don't seem to understand the role of the quotation marks in the translation that you quoted back to me.

As I said, my understanding is based on more that one quotation mark (I didn't mean "comma"). I posted many translations, several that didn't have quotation marks. And the original manuscripts didn't contain them. You can go ahead and pick which one that fits your religion, as seems to be your custom. I am confident the true meaning isn't changed by the "added" marks.

As I said, you are free to wait to take heed until some man comes and claims to be the Christ, thereby making the entire New Testament a lie. I'm sure the deceiver is thrilled about that preaching.

Meanwhile I will take Heed as Jesus warned and warn others to do the same regarding those who come in Christ's Name, who preach Jesus is truly the Christ, who disguise themselves as Apostles of Christ, and Ministers of Righteousness, who say "Lord, Lord, yet refuse to do what He says, wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets, and on and on and on.

You can continue to imply that I have a learning disability because I trust ALL of God's Words and understand who the enemy of God's People has always been since Abel was murdered by his "Christian" brother Cain..

Our discussions have increased my faith in the perfection of His Warnings and His Truth. I thank Jesus for that.

But to continue in this discussion with you would be vain babbling at this point. So I am done here.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Abel was murdered by his "Christian" brother Cain..
not content to slander individuals, are you now slandering all Christians together as one?

i would like to know which part of "
ALL God's Words" you took for a basis to make this statement.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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you are free to wait to take heed until some man comes and claims to be the Christ, thereby making the entire New Testament a lie
here's an incomplete list:

people who claimed to be Christ

no need to wait; it's been going on for 2,000 years, just like He said.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24)
People will tell you, 'There He is!' or 'Here He is!'
Do not go running off after them.
(Luke 17:23)
i really don't see how these facts make 'the entire NT a lie' - though i've found your reasoning hasn't been quite comprehensible in the past.

but of course you knew all this, because you "studied" and you take "ALL" of the scripture into account, right?
my apologies if it's insulting to be reminded by an idiot like post. :)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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False Messiahs before the destruction of Jerusalem. Exactly like Christ said - "if they say to you, ‘Behold, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out".

From Josephus it appears that in the first century before the destruction of the Temple a number of Messiahs arose promising relief from the Roman yoke, and finding ready followers. Josephus speaks of them thus: "Another body of wicked men also sprung up, cleaner in their hands, but more wicked in their intentions, who destroyedthe peace of the city no less than did these murderers [the Sicarii]. For they were deceivers and deluders of the people, and, under pretense of divine illumination, were for innovations and changes, and prevailed on the multitude to act like madmen, and went before them in the wilderness, pretending that God would there show them signs of liberty" (Josephus, "B. J." ii. 13, §; 4; idem, "Ant." xx. 8, §; 6). Matt. xxiv. 24, warning against "false Christs and false prophets," gives testimony to the same effect. Thus about 44, Josephus reports, a certain impostor, Theudas, who claimed to be a prophet, appeared and urged the people to follow him with their belongings to the Jordan, which he would divide for them. According to Acts v. 36 (which seems to refer to a different date), he secured about 400 followers. Cuspius Fadus sent a troop of horsemen after him and his band, slew many of them, and took captive others, together with their leader, beheading the latter ("Ant." xx. 5, § 1).

Another, an Egyptian, is said to have gathered together 30,000 adherents, whom he summoned to the Mount of Olives, opposite Jerusalem, promising that at his command the walls of Jerusalem would fall down, and that he and his followers would enter and possess themselves of the city. But Felix, the procurator (c. 55-60), met the throng with his soldiery. The prophet escaped, but those with him were killed or taken, and the multitude dispersed (ib. xx. 8, § 6; "B. J." ii. 13, § 5; see also Acts xxi. 38). Another, whom Josephus styles an impostor, promised the people "deliverance and freedom from their miseries" if they would follow him to the wilderness. Both leader and followers were killed by the troops of Festus, the procurator (60-62; "Ant." xx. 8, § 10). Even when Jerusalem was already in process of destruction by the Romans, a prophet, according to Josephus suborned by the defenders to keep the people from deserting announced that God commanded them to come to the Temple, there to receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Those who came met death in the flames ("B. J." vi. 5, § 3).
link > PSEUDO-MESSIAHS
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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As I said, my understanding is based on more that one quotation mark (I didn't mean "comma"). I posted many translations, several that didn't have quotation marks. And the original manuscripts didn't contain them. You can go ahead and pick which one that fits your religion, as seems to be your custom. I am confident the true meaning isn't changed by the "added" marks.

As I said, you are free to wait to take heed until some man comes and claims to be the Christ, thereby making the entire New Testament a lie. I'm sure the deceiver is thrilled about that preaching.

Meanwhile I will take Heed as Jesus warned and warn others to do the same regarding those who come in Christ's Name, who preach Jesus is truly the Christ, who disguise themselves as Apostles of Christ, and Ministers of Righteousness, who say "Lord, Lord, yet refuse to do what He says, wolves in sheep's clothing, false prophets, and on and on and on.

You can continue to imply that I have a learning disability because I trust ALL of God's Words and understand who the enemy of God's People has always been since Abel was murdered by his "Christian" brother Cain..

Our discussions have increased my faith in the perfection of His Warnings and His Truth. I thank Jesus for that.

But to continue in this discussion with you would be vain babbling at this point. So I am done here.
"I am confident the true meaning isn't changed by the "added" marks."

this indicates that you do not understand the role of quotation marks, which leads me to suspect that you have some reading challenges.

you are probably not getting the right meaning out of other scriptures as well.

so I think it would be a very good move for you to learn to read well. Then we can move on to other scriptures.


and may God give you wisdom and understanding. Please pray that for me, too.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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here's an incomplete list:

people who claimed to be Christ

no need to wait; it's been going on for 2,000 years, just like He said.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24)
People will tell you, 'There He is!' or 'Here He is!'
Do not go running off after them.
(Luke 17:23)
i really don't see how these facts make 'the entire NT a lie' - though i've found your reasoning hasn't been quite comprehensible in the past.

but of course you knew all this, because you "studied" and you take "ALL" of the scripture into account, right?
my apologies if it's insulting to be reminded by an idiot like post. :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus

Wow, I had no idea there were so many!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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here's an incomplete list:

people who claimed to be Christ

no need to wait; it's been going on for 2,000 years, just like He said.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24)
I have no doubt these things will happen as well. I think they already have.​
1528117899313.jpeg

Who is this guy? You and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach to us that this is Jesus. In fact, Mainstream Christianity has convinced the entire world into believing this is Jesus. To deny this is epitome of deception. Where does this image come from? Did Jesus instruct man to make images of Him in the likeness of men? And even if He did, which His First and Greatest Commandment strictly forbids doing such a thing, where is this description found of Him?

So by any objective Biblical discernment, not only is it a sin to create, acknowledge, partake of, or worship an image of God/Jesus made in the likeness of "ANYTHING" in heaven or on earth, but the image doesn't even closely reflect the description we do have of Him in the Bible, none of which is contained in the New Testament. So isn't this one example of a "False Christ" that has arisen? And wasn't it created by "MEN" who "Came in Christ's Name, who preach Jesus is the Messiah?

Not only that, but these same religious leaders, who come in Christ's Name, who teach that Jesus is truly the Christ, also created a "Feast unto the Lord" in worship of this god. A High Day that is the biggest religious High Day of this world. Another action which Jesus, nor His Apostles, nor any example of Faith would ever venture to do as it is strictly forbidden in the "Rules" of God you preach against.

This High Day, and others they created, determines in large part, the wealth of the merchants of the world. To deny this is also a self deception. Jesus also warns about this in His Word, does He not.

Rev. 18:
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (What, didn't your jesus make all things clean?)
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Who is this "HER"? Could it be those Jesus warned of who "Come in His Name, who preach Jesus is truly the Christ?

I am not arguing that "False Christ's Shall Arise". I quite sure they already have.

2 Cor. 11:
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

What is an "Apostle of Christ"? Is it not a man who comes in Christ's Name, who teaches that Jesus is truly the Christ?

but of course you knew all this, because you "
studied" and you take "ALL" of the scripture into account, right?
my apologies if it's insulting to be reminded by an idiot like post.


I don't think for a minute you are an idiot Post. Cleaver, yes, subtle, no questions about it, but I never thought you were stupid. I think you know exactly what I'm saying.

One last question for you to ignore.

For God's People, do you believe they all have "END TIMES"? Or is it only for the people unfortunate enough to live at the end? Did Jesus and Stephen have "END TIMES" such as had never happened in their lives, nor will ever again? How about Sampson, Jacob?

Is your God a respecter of persons?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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False Messiahs before the destruction of Jerusalem. Exactly like Christ said - "if they say to you, ‘Behold, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out".



link > PSEUDO-MESSIAHS

I think it is a mistake to make the claim that "the end" happened in 70 AD. And regarding end time preaching, there isn't one out of the thousands of differing sects of self proclaimed "Christianity" who doesn't preach their version about the end times. Regardless, this doesn't erase the rest of the Bible, or the exposure of "Many" who have come in Christ's name, who preach Jesus is truly the Christ, but are now out of business because of bank fraud, child molestation, embezzlement, the list goes on and on.

It is a deception to preach there isn't "MEN", who come in Christ's Name, who teach Jesus is truly the Christ, but are actually deceivers, child predators, liars, crooks, etc., Why you or anyone would want to come on this forum and make such an openly false assertion is baffling to me.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach to us that this is Jesus.
You might want to actually check at least one of the many threads about this topic ((iconography etc)) that i have replied in before you keep posting lies about me.

Put away all slander and do not testify falsely about your neighbor, studydude.
God hates these things. It's in your Bible, have you not read?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It is a deception to preach there isn't "MEN", who come in Christ's Name, who teach Jesus is truly the Christ, but are actually deceivers, child predators, liars, crooks, etc., Why you or anyone would want to come on this forum and make such an openly false assertion is baffling to me.
HRFTD did not make any such assertion. He said the Bible certainly teaches that false Christs will arise.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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You might want to actually check at least one of the many threads about this topic ((iconography etc)) that i have replied in before you keep posting lies about me.

Put away all slander and do not testify falsely about your neighbor, studydude.
God hates these things. It's in your Bible, have you not read?
I have never seen you post any opposition to the mainstream Christian image of God those who "Come in Christ's Name, teaching Jesus is truly the Christ have created, nor the man made "Feasts unto the Lord" they also created. I have brought it to your attention many times and you simply deflect.

It is not slander to assume you preach the same as those you defend. If you know the truth about this "Christian" god, you should tell your brothers.

WE have both slung arrows. "You're just another believing Pharisee yourself" studydude.

As has been pointed out to you before, you slander others the same as you accuse them of doing to you.

This is called "hypocrisy". God is not too keen with this practice either.

If you don't want to talk about it, just say so.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
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HRFTD did not make any such assertion. He said the Bible certainly teaches that false Christs will arise.
"False Messiahs before the destruction of Jerusalem. Exactly like Christ said"

Jesus didn't say these false Christ's will arise before some event in man's history. The end did not come in 70 AD. This doesn't make Void Jesus warnings of those who come in Christ's Name to deceive. The evidence of which is overwhelming.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
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Our forefathers were Hebrews, the 12 Tribes names will be written on the gates in Heaven with the 12 Disciples. Remembering the Sabbath is wise, it is restoring one's self in mental faculties, resting in body spirit and mind, according to the Jewish commandments, for the week ahead. God knows our frame, that we are dust, and his words are for our benefit, spirit, soul mind and body. :)
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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You might want to actually check at least one of the many threads about this topic ((iconography etc)) that i have replied in before you keep posting lies about me.

Put away all slander and do not testify falsely about your neighbor, studydude.
God hates these things. It's in your Bible, have you not read?
I saw that and immediately thought That's a false charge against posthuman.

Which returns us to the rhetorical question Why would someone who behaves that way think they should instruct others about God's ways?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I have never seen you post any opposition to the mainstream Christian image
Well I've never seen you post anything about whether the earth is flat or roughly spheroidal, so....

I'm not going to make assumptions. :)

The Bible says some of the believing pharisees argued that Gentiles who have come to faith must be commanded to keep the Sinai covenant Law. You make the same argument. They also trusted in their earthly works for righteousness, comparing themselves with others in this way with a mind of judgement, and cleverly twisted the scripture to make it seem to support their private doctrines, and you also do the same. Later, from a pc, I could spend hours digging up specific examples if it were worth doing ((it's not)). That association is therefore neither baseless nor unnatural, IMO. I didn't simply pull it out of thin air maliciously.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I saw that and immediately thought That's a false charge against posthuman.

Which returns us to the rhetorical question Why would someone who behaves that way think they should instruct others about God's ways?


LOL, Anything to deflect from the post. You claim I have a reading disability, Post calls me a Pharisee.

LOL,

Seeing they will not see.

I swear, You can't make this stuff up.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Remembering the Sabbath is wise
See, why can't we just have a thread that argues this, instead of damning every believe to hell who doesn’t ritually keep saturdays labour-free?

It might actually be edifying instead of destructive!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Well I've never seen you post anything about whether the earth is flat or roughly spheroidal, so....

I'm not going to make assumptions. :)

The Bible says some of the believing pharisees argued that Gentiles who have come to faith must be commanded to keep the Sinai covenant Law. You make the same argument. They also trusted in their earthly works for righteousness, comparing themselves with others in this way with a mind of judgement, and cleverly twisted the scripture to make it seem to support their private doctrines, and you also do the same. Later, from a pc, I could spend hours digging up specific examples if it were worth doing ((it's not)). That association is therefore neither baseless nor unnatural, IMO. I didn't simply pull it out of thin air maliciously.

Yes, very cleaver to change the subject.

The term "Sinai Covenant Law" is your words, not the Bibles. The Apostles knew the teaching of Jesus. Surely you must believe this.

2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I do not twist scriptures to say suddenly the Pharisees were following God's Laws, and working to lay them on men's shoulders.. Yes, they "SAID" as Jesus warned, but they didn't "DO" as Jesus also warned.

Peter didn't fall for it either.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

You want to preach this Yoke was God's Laws? I can't stop you. But both Peter and James knew better even if you don't.

This is why they made sure the Converts were following God's Word's, not the "yoke, or Burden" the Mainstream Preachers had placed on the necks of the Jews for centuries.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses) and from fornication(Law of Moses) , and from things strangled(Law of Moses) , and from blood(Law of Moses) .

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The exact same "Moses" Jesus instructed the Apostles to learn from.

2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

Which includes His Sabbaths, not eating Blood, Passover, not committing idolatry, etc.

Just like your preaching that the Law and Prophets didn't teach what Jesus taught, is a deception, so also is your preaching that the "Yoke" in Acts 15 is God's Instructions from the Law and Prophets.

Peter and James knew better because they had a different Spirit on them than the believing Pharisees, as Peter said to these same converts.

Acts 5:
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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LOL, Anything to deflect from the post. You claim I have a reading disability, Post calls me a Pharisee.

LOL,

Seeing they will not see.

I swear, You can't make this stuff up.
my post was not a deflection from anything. Your post was not written to me, and I was responding to posthuman.

I did not say you had a reading disability. I believe what I said was that I suspect you have a lack of reading ability. They are not the same.