GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
So you don't believe in death bed conversion. So how long before die, require for a man to repent to make him save?

Can you give a verse to support what your believe?

Do you believe a man should wait until his death to honor the Christ?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
another reason why I will never accept your religion- I would have to believe that Proverbs is law, when it is not even commands, just wise saying.

and that Solomon was a prophet, which of course is one of your ( wrong ) opinions , not backed up by any Scripture any more that gentiles were told to go to synagogue when that was not even written in the Acts 15 letter.
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
Do you believe a man should wait until his death to honor the Christ?
No, any time a man repent He will forgive and save, do not need to wait, but if happen a man accept Jesus a second before he die, he is save.

The Bible say, for God love the world he give His only begotten Son, whosoever believe in Him will be save, no requirement how long before die
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
No, any time a man repent He will forgive and save, do not need to wait, but if happen a man accept Jesus a second before he die, he is save.

The Bible say, for God love the world he give His only begotten Son, whosoever believe in Him will be save, no requirement how long before die
But what about if I like my sinful life, and I hear about Jesus but want to wait until after the party is over, or wait until after I bury my father? Can I wait until I am older and all worn out, and then repent?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,669
583
113
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The prophets speak of Jesus and often speak against the people of the day. I believe the prophets, I also believe the prophets are separate from the law, which is applicable only to those who live and die under the law.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,248
567
113
But what about if I like my sinful life, and I hear about Jesus but want to wait until after the party is over, or wait until after I bury my father? Can I wait until I am older and all worn out, and then repent?
I believe Base on john 3:16, whosoever believe in Him will save.

Why wait till older?
1. You do not know when you die, how about to late?
2. Believe in Jesus is more comfortable than party. Close to Him is more peaceful than life in sin. If a man believe worldly party is more peaceful than life in Him, that man do not believe in Him. Believe in Him is not only believe that He is God, but believe His teaching is a pleasure.

Apostle Paarl say, the world become trash after seeing His glory.

Any body love garbage? Let me know, I have tons, my city has a problem to tos the garbage.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,669
583
113
But what about if I like my sinful life, and I hear about Jesus but want to wait until after the party is over, or wait until after I bury my father? Can I wait until I am older and all worn out, and then repent?
That person might be dead by tomorrow.
 

ELOHIMLOGOS

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2018
12
6
3
This verse is popular with folks who like to believe man can live as they want their entire life, and on their death bed, "accept Jesus" and they are saved and will be awarded eternal life. "Death bed Conversion" it's called.

I don't believe that was the message of the story. I believe this man "Repented", "turned to God" and did "works" Worthy of repentance even if these works were only acknowledging the Christ as who He was.

He Humbled Himself to the Son of God, he didn't even ask to be saved. That kind of humility come from God's Spirit, not from Mans. There is more to this story IMO.

But there is no more proof than what he said. That he knew Jesus didn't do anything to deserve this treatment, even though the entire mainstream preachers and those who followed them was yelling "crucify Him". It seems obvious there is more to the story. IMO.
It is an interesting scripture about the theif on the cross and teaches a lot. The thief knew he was a sinner because he was condemned by the law and sentanced to death.

On the cross he accepted Jesus as his Savior from sin by faith. This is the role of God's LAW. The sinner is condemned to death but faith in Jesus and God's forgiveness of sin brings eternal life.

The theif on the cross is a simple demonstration of the Gospel and the role of the law of God that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.

Blessings to all God's sheep.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
685
113
The theif on the cross is a simple demonstration of the Gospel and the role of the law of God that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
And thereafter live by faith, not by law.

Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], live in him [by faith], Colossians 2:6
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,789
835
113
Yes, they will claim Jesus is the Messiah. It doesn't say;

Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘They are the Messiah!’ They will fool many people.

It says; Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I (Jesus the Christ) am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people.

How many folks could you deceive today if you went on this forum telling folks you were Jesus?

But how many folks could a person deceive if they claimed to come in the Name of Christ, and they taught that Jesus was truly the Messiah?

How can I both "Come in Jesus' name, and also Claim I am Jesus?


This is why the Bible says to "Come out of her my people". By the great mercies of the Word which became Flesh, He, as he promised, has freed me from the deception and death which the Broad Path brings.

I'm not ashamed for trying to help other brothers to escape her as well. Even if I know I will be ridiculed and scorned for doing so.
"It says; Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I (Jesus the Christ) am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people."


I'm glad you accept the sentence:
They will claim, ‘I am the Messiah!’

though I think the part in parentheses:
(Jesus the Christ)
is unwarranted in that sentence.


to see why, let's look at these two sentences:

Mom says I am a good reader.

Mom says, 'I am a good reader.'

as you read things, do those two sentences above have the same meaning?



let's resolve that issue, then we can discuss the rest of your post.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
And thereafter live by faith, not by law.

Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], live in him [by faith], Colossians 2:6
Still not sure how Abraham had Faith without obedience . I don't believe you can "SAY" you trust God, but not trust Him enough to do as He instructs.

It is pretty obvious that had Abraham refused to do as God instructed, he would never had been the example of Faith we are to strive towards.

He would have another Eve.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
685
113
"It says; Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I (Jesus the Christ) am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people."
I'm glad you accept the sentence:
They will claim, ‘I am the Messiah!’
though I think the part in parentheses:
(Jesus the Christ)
is unwarranted in that sentence.
to see why, let's look at these two sentences:
Mom says I am a good reader.
Mom says, 'I am a good reader.'
as you read things, do those two sentences above have the same meaning?

let's resolve that issue, then we can discuss the rest of your post.
That issue can only be "resolved" via context. Jesus was responding to one of 3 questions that the disciples asked him. To which was he responding? The destruction of the temple? The end of the Jewish age? The sign of his coming?

IMO the context has to be determined by his choice of words in which he tells them personally to be on guard against people claiming to be the anointed one, and the ubiquitous cultural view at that time that the anointed one would deliver Israel from the Romans. Also, this warning is the first thing he said, which correlates with the first question they asked: "When will the temple be destroyed?"
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
"It says; Many will come in my name. They will claim, ‘I (Jesus the Christ) am the Messiah!’ They will fool many people."


I'm glad you accept the sentence:
They will claim, ‘I am the Messiah!’

though I think the part in parentheses:
(Jesus the Christ)
is unwarranted in that sentence.


to see why, let's look at these two sentences:

Mom says I am a good reader.

Mom says, 'I am a good reader.'

as you read things, do those two sentences above have the same meaning?



let's resolve that issue, then we can discuss the rest of your post.
I made the case for the meaning of this scriptures, I gave many different translations of the scripture. I posted other verses which support the theme, I asked relevant questions to which you guys didn't acknowledge.

There are real life examples of this truth by the thousands. I haven't even started talking about the pedophiles who have come in Christ's name, teaching Jesus is truly the Christ, but are really there to prey on little boys. Wouldn't this be an example of someone to "Take heed of".

It is absurd to claim that Jesus is only warning about men who claim to be God.

No need to continue this conversation if you can't even acknowledge what has plagued mankind since the serpent used God's Word to deceive Eve.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
That issue can only be "resolved" via context. Jesus was responding to one of 3 questions that the disciples asked him. To which was he responding? The destruction of the temple? The end of the Jewish age? The sign of his coming?

IMO the context has to be determined by his choice of words in which he tells them personally to be on guard against people claiming to be the anointed one, and the ubiquitous cultural view at that time that the anointed one would deliver Israel from the Romans. Also, this warning is the first thing he said, which correlates with the first question they asked: "When will the temple be destroyed?"
That is the Catholic doctrine.

I just don't believe Jesus was warning about people who say "THEY" are God, but those cleaver, subtle deceivers who come in Christ's Name, and who claim He is truly the Christ.

He knew the Jews religion had been exposed, and He also knew corrupters would do to His church what they did to the Jews. So He is warning about the future, not about the Jews who don't believe He is the Christ, but He is warning about those deceivers who will come in His name, and who preach He is truly the Messiah. Not Jews. And reality has proven Him spot on in my opinion. There are real life examples of this by the thousands. People drank KoolAid which killed them following a man who "Came in Christ's Name. and who taught Jesus is the Christ. You would be able to "deceive" a lot more people on this forum if you came in Christ's name, than you could if you came on this forum and tell us you were Jesus, and the new testament was all a lie..

Not only that but what He actually said.

THEY will come in Christ's Name, not saying they are Christ, but saying "I, Jesus, am Christ"

Any way.

I disagree with the Mainstream interpretation, but I know their version protects "many" who come in His name, so I understand why they are so eager keep their doctrine.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,789
835
113
I made the case for the meaning of this scriptures, I gave many different translations of the scripture. I posted other verses which support the theme, I asked relevant questions to which you guys didn't acknowledge.

There are real life examples of this truth by the thousands. I haven't even started talking about the pedophiles who have come in Christ's name, teaching Jesus is truly the Christ, but are really there to prey on little boys. Wouldn't this be an example of someone to "Take heed of".

It is absurd to claim that Jesus is only warning about men who claim to be God.

No need to continue this conversation if you can't even acknowledge what has plagued mankind since the serpent used God's Word to deceive Eve.
it's a simple question.

two sentences:

Mom says I am a good reader.

Mom says, 'I am a good reader.'

as you read things, do those two sentences above have the same meaning?


***********

your refusal to answer leads me to suspect, and I say this with all gentleness, that you have limited reading ability.

that doesn't mean that you aren't deeply spiritual, or that you aren't sincere in seeking after God.


I suspect then, again gently, that many of your teachings are based on a lack of reading ability.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
515
113
The RCC may embrace that doctrine, but it is by no means a Catholic doctrine. It is a preterist doctrine.
My post explains my reasoning.

W
it's a simple question.

two sentences:

Mom says I am a good reader.

Mom says, 'I am a good reader.'

as you read things, do those two sentences above have the same meaning?


***********

your refusal to answer leads me to suspect, and I say this with all gentleness, that you have limited reading ability.

that doesn't mean that you aren't deeply spiritual, or that you aren't sincere in seeking after God.


I suspect then, again gently, that many of your teachings are based on a lack of reading ability.
That certainly is a possibly, maybe I am just not capable. I have considered this as well. No doubt I am a nobody.

But maybe Jesus is just right, and maybe it isn't the Jews His people needed to worry about in the future, maybe it is those who "disguise themselves as Apostles of Christ" as Paul also warned. It is suspicious to me how you ignore the other scriptures which mirror what Jesus warned about in Matt. 24. I might gently suggest that it is more important to understand what is being taught than it is to preserve ancient religious tradition, which seems to be your motivation.

You are free to shop translations until you find one that fits your religious tradition. But my understanding of this scripture is gained through out the study of several translations, the other warnings regarding the same subject, and real life experiences with "MANY" who Come in Christ's name, and who preach Jesus is truly the Christ, but have proven to be deceivers. You are free to ignore the support I post for my beliefs.

If you want to create your doctrine around one comma, in a new age translation, you are free to do so. But my choice to include the Whole Bible, different translations, and real life experiences doesn't equate to "Lack of reading ability" IMO.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,071
2,947
113
My post explains my reasoning.

W


That certainly is a possibly, maybe I am just not capable. I have considered this as well. No doubt I am a nobody.

But maybe Jesus is just right, and maybe it isn't the Jews His people needed to worry about in the future, maybe it is those who "disguise themselves as Apostles of Christ" as Paul also warned. It is suspicious to me how you ignore the other scriptures which mirror what Jesus warned about in Matt. 24. I might gently suggest that it is more important to understand what is being taught than it is to preserve ancient religious tradition, which seems to be your motivation.

You are free to shop translations until you find one that fits your religious tradition. But my understanding of this scripture is gained through out the study of several translations, the other warnings regarding the same subject, and real life experiences with "MANY" who Come in Christ's name, and who preach Jesus is truly the Christ, but have proven to be deceivers. You are free to ignore the support I post for my beliefs.

If you want to create your doctrine around one comma, in a new age translation, you are free to do so. But my choice to include the Whole Bible, different translations, and real life experiences doesn't equate to "Lack of reading ability" IMO.
you are too funny sometimes. you have built an entire religion around the " the Word became flesh " and thinking that the Pharisees are devil worshipers. then you actually have the nerve to say that someone who is asking you a simple question ( that , as usual, you won' answer, your fake religion won't allow it), is doing what you are actually doing.

there is one here who is pushing a false, man-made doctrine. you.

there is your sprit filed response for the day.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
6,498
113
it is more important to understand what is being taught than it is to preserve ancient religious tradition
yes

Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven,
but it is My Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
(John 6:32)
The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
(John 6:63)

so what's being taught?

what does the Scripture say?
(Galatians 4:30)
Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
(Galatians 3:3)
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,789
835
113
My post explains my reasoning.

W


That certainly is a possibly, maybe I am just not capable. I have considered this as well. No doubt I am a nobody.

But maybe Jesus is just right, and maybe it isn't the Jews His people needed to worry about in the future, maybe it is those who "disguise themselves as Apostles of Christ" as Paul also warned. It is suspicious to me how you ignore the other scriptures which mirror what Jesus warned about in Matt. 24. I might gently suggest that it is more important to understand what is being taught than it is to preserve ancient religious tradition, which seems to be your motivation.

You are free to shop translations until you find one that fits your religious tradition. But my understanding of this scripture is gained through out the study of several translations, the other warnings regarding the same subject, and real life experiences with "MANY" who Come in Christ's name, and who preach Jesus is truly the Christ, but have proven to be deceivers. You are free to ignore the support I post for my beliefs.

If you want to create your doctrine around one comma, in a new age translation, you are free to do so. But my choice to include the Whole Bible, different translations, and real life experiences doesn't equate to "Lack of reading ability" IMO.
"No doubt I am a nobody."

You are not a nobody. Lack of reading ability is nothing to be embarrassed about, any more than being color blind or left-handed.

"But maybe Jesus is just right..."

it's not a matter of Jesus being right, it's a matter of being able to read his written words.

"...preserve ancient religious tradition, which seems to be your motivation."

no, my motivation is to grow in wisdom and knowledge.


"You are free to ignore the support I post for my beliefs."

I am discussing Matthew 24:5.
in my opinion, you have an absurd interpretation of it. let's deal with that before we move on to other verses.



"If you want to create your doctrine around one comma..."

no. the issue is a comma, and more importantly, quotation marks.

'But my choice to include the Whole Bible, different translations, and real life experiences doesn't equate to "Lack of reading ability" '

you are correct. here's what leads me to suspect that you have a lack of reading ability:
you don't seem to understand the role of the quotation marks in the translations that you posted above.
and you don't seem to understand the role of the quotation marks in the translation that you quoted back to me.