GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I think you have to give us clear definition what is the different between law of God and law of Moses.

And prove that Moses has his own law, and his law is not God law.

In other word, Moses teach different gospel than God and God don't mine.
Num. 12:
1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.

3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

4 And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

5 And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Num. 12:
1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.

3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

4 And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

5 And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
So you believe Moses is not faithful, because verse 7. But my question is : is Moses teach a law that is different from the law of God? Give example what law is that and why that law different from the law of God
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Yep David repent, the point is: David sin after he was believer, not before. Back to the question, do we never sin after become believer?
The answer is actually "Yes" and "No" because well when one is saved(I realize you used the word believer but I prefer the word saved though in David's case he would be a believer) an individual will sin at some point not typically "willfully" but regardless every individual whether saved/believer/not saved/unbeliever sins though there is 1 exception "when acting through the Holy spirit/Jesus" because at those times our "mind and will" join together with God/Jesus/Holy spirit's and therefore in those moments "we can't sin".
I hope this helps you and may God bless you.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The answer is actually "Yes" and "No" because well when one is saved(I realize you used the word believer but I prefer the word saved though in David's case he would be a believer) an individual will sin at some point not typically "willfully" but regardless every individual whether saved/believer/not saved/unbeliever sins though there is 1 exception "when acting through the Holy spirit/Jesus" because at those times our "mind and will" join together with God/Jesus/Holy spirit's and therefore in those moments "we can't sin".
I hope this helps you and may God bless you.

In real life, David sin after he was a believer, are you never sin after saved?
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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So you believe Moses is not faithful, because verse 7. But my question is : is Moses teach a law that is different from the law of God? Give example what law is that and why that law different from the law of God
Your question is ambiguous....for ALL law is from GOD. What happened at Sinai Ex 20 was that the first 10 Commandments were spoken by GOD Himself TO THE PEOPLE present.....but the rest of the commandments CONTAINED in WORKS and ORDINANCES/RITUALS were given THROUGH Moses and NOT to the people personally AS WERE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
THIS separation shows the DIFFERENCE between the 10 spiritual Commands of God that would last ETERNALLY and the rest of the commands given by Moses were of a TEMPORARY duration only during the Levitical Priesthood.....because when JESUS came HE fulfilled them on the cross Eph 2v15; Col 2v14......BUT the 10 Commands given personally by GOD are still valid and in force because THEY ARE SPIRITUAL ie LOVE = loving God and neighbour intended for ever, always !!!
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Anyone can make a thread on Jackson's question anytime instead of keeping this already derailed thread alive especially considering the Op has been "long gone" for quite sometime now.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
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The answer is actually "Yes" and "No" because well when one is saved(I realize you used the word believer but I prefer the word saved though in David's case he would be a believer) an individual will sin at some point not typically "willfully" but regardless every individual whether saved/believer/not saved/unbeliever sins though there is 1 exception "when acting through the Holy spirit/Jesus" because at those times our "mind and will" join together with God/Jesus/Holy spirit's and therefore in those moments "we can't sin".
I hope this helps you and may God bless you.
What is willfully mean, is David not willfully kill Uriah ?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Your question is ambiguous....for ALL law is from GOD. What happened at Sinai Ex 20 was that the first 10 Commandments were spoken by GOD Himself TO THE PEOPLE present.....but the rest of the commandments CONTAINED in WORKS and ORDINANCES/RITUALS were given THROUGH Moses and NOT to the people personally AS WERE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
THIS separation shows the DIFFERENCE between the 10 spiritual Commands of God that would last ETERNALLY and the rest of the commands given by Moses were of a TEMPORARY duration only during the Levitical Priesthood.....because when JESUS came HE fulfilled them on the cross Eph 2v15; Col 2v14......BUT the 10 Commands given personally by GOD are still valid and in force because THEY ARE SPIRITUAL ie LOVE = loving God and neighbour intended for ever, always !!!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,245
566
113
Your question is ambiguous....for ALL law is from GOD. What happened at Sinai Ex 20 was that the first 10 Commandments were spoken by GOD Himself TO THE PEOPLE present.....but the rest of the commandments CONTAINED in WORKS and ORDINANCES/RITUALS were given THROUGH Moses and NOT to the people personally AS WERE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.
THIS separation shows the DIFFERENCE between the 10 spiritual Commands of God that would last ETERNALLY and the rest of the commands given by Moses were of a TEMPORARY duration only during the Levitical Priesthood.....because when JESUS came HE fulfilled them on the cross Eph 2v15; Col 2v14......BUT the 10 Commands given personally by GOD are still valid and in force because THEY ARE SPIRITUAL ie LOVE = loving God and neighbour intended for ever, always !!!
So 10 c is eternal because they are love. Is that mean the rest is not love?
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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Just because we confess that we believe does not mean we believe either.
So you believe, believer always perfect, and David is not believer?
Are you still in bondage to the flesh?
Paul said, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
(Rom 8:2-3)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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the faith you should preach is believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

and, you, he and others are placing yourselves under the wrong covenant. we are under the Abrahamic Covenant, the Jeramiah 31 covenant was between God and Israel, not the whole world.
No.
One Covenant through Christ for all.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

In the above text GOD through Moses connects the word being nigh, in thy mouth and heart to the voice of the LORD and HIS commandments and statutes which are written in the book of the law. They are being spoken synonymously. This was available then for any in the house of Israel. And That would include any gentile believe that decided to follow GOD and become part of the Israeli nation. As you know this promise is repeated in Romans 10:6-8 to us again.

The text in Jeremiah is the same but is being spoken prophetically due to Israel's constant state of unbelief due to their unrepentant stiff necked, hardheartedness. They had refused that which was available to them from the beginning.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,035
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No.
One Covenant through Christ for all.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

In the above text GOD through Moses connects the word being nigh, in thy mouth and heart to the voice of the LORD and HIS commandments and statutes which are written in the book of the law. They are being spoken synonymously. This was available then for any in the house of Israel. And That would include any gentile believe that decided to follow GOD and become part of the Israeli nation. As you know this promise is repeated in Romans 10:6-8 to us again.

The text in Jeremiah is the same but is being spoken prophetically due to Israel's constant state of unbelief due to their unrepentant stiff necked, hardheartedness. They had refused that which was available to them from the beginning.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)
No.
One Covenant through Christ for all.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

In the above text GOD through Moses connects the word being nigh, in thy mouth and heart to the voice of the LORD and HIS commandments and statutes which are written in the book of the law. They are being spoken synonymously. This was available then for any in the house of Israel. And That would include any gentile believe that decided to follow GOD and become part of the Israeli nation. As you know this promise is repeated in Romans 10:6-8 to us again.

The text in Jeremiah is the same but is being spoken prophetically due to Israel's constant state of unbelief due to their unrepentant stiff necked, hardheartedness. They had refused that which was available to them from the beginning.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)
so, one would have to turn jewish to be a Christian. just through in a little bit of Jesus, and just keep keeping the Law. that is what you are saying.

you and opinion ( study ) dude claim that we are under the Jeramiah 31 covenant.

well, Paul disagrees. he says in Galatians 3 that we are under the Abrahamic covenant . v. 7 -9.

who should I believe, Him or you 2??

you see, I have read the Bible from front to back many times through. I do not like saying this, we are not to be boastful. but I have.

all Hebrew roots / sda theology does is just isolate Scripture and build opinion based theology around it. it does not work on those who know what the Bible says as a whole. and what it does not say .
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,689
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No.
One Covenant through Christ for all.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

In the above text GOD through Moses connects the word being nigh, in thy mouth and heart to the voice of the LORD and HIS commandments and statutes which are written in the book of the law. They are being spoken synonymously. This was available then for any in the house of Israel. And That would include any gentile believe that decided to follow GOD and become part of the Israeli nation. As you know this promise is repeated in Romans 10:6-8 to us again.

The text in Jeremiah is the same but is being spoken prophetically due to Israel's constant state of unbelief due to their unrepentant stiff necked, hardheartedness. They had refused that which was available to them from the beginning.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)
Notice that what Paul says in Romans is drawing a contrast between Christ and the Commandments of the Law :

Romans 10:5-9 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Salvation and life by belief and confession, not by keeping the Law.

You will accuse again, 'trying to make excuse for sin' but that is just a straw man. It's about what is true, and the truth is that salvation is not by works, but by grace through belief in the Son of God who did the work, and works still in everyone whose trust is in Him rather than anything else.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Are you still in bondage to the flesh?
Paul said, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
(Rom 8:2-3)
What is this verse mean?
It mean you never sin anymore?

Are you not in the bondage to the flesh anymore?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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515
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So you believe Moses is not faithful, because verse 7. But my question is : is Moses teach a law that is different from the law of God? Give example what law is that and why that law different from the law of God
When did God or me say Moses was unfaithful? Please explain your comment.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Yep David repent, the point is: David sin after he was believer, not before. Back to the question, do we never sin after become believer?
Yes we do.

And thank God we the blood Jesus shed on the cross available to us, for forgiveness if we confess our sins.



JLB
 
Oct 31, 2015
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When did God or me say Moses was unfaithful? Please explain your comment.

Those who twist the scriptures usually resort to condemning Moses as an example, when the scriptures testify that Moses was faithful in all his house as an example.


And Moses indeed wasfaithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:5-6


  • Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast