GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast
Hold fast the confidence and the sure hope in which we rejoice

If you cut the quote short of completing the sentence it makes it sound like it's keeping ourselves from stumbling in our walk that the 'if' is about - but if you quote the whole passage it's enduring in belief :)

Praise God, it's Him that holds us to His bosom, not us, whose frail grip fails! He is mighty to save and no one can stay His hand and bared arm!!
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Hold fast the confidence and the sure hope in which we rejoice

If you cut the quote short of completing the sentence it makes it sound like it's keeping ourselves from stumbling in our walk that the 'if' is about - but if you quote the whole passage it's enduring in belief:)

Praise God, it's Him that holds us to His bosom, not us, whose frail grip fails! He is mighty to save and no one can stay His hand and bared arm!!
Which has zero to do with gathering to worship on a specific day of the week.


I am still waiting on the Sabbath folks to provide a scripture from Jesus, the Mediator of the New Covenant, that “commands” the Church to gather on the Sabbath.


JPT
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Notice that what Paul says in Romans is drawing a contrast between Christ and the Commandments of the Law :

Romans 10:5-9 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Salvation and life by belief and confession, not by keeping the Law.

You will accuse again, 'trying to make excuse for sin' but that is just a straw man. It's about what is true, and the truth is that salvation is not by works, but by grace through belief in the Son of God who did the work, and works still in everyone whose trust is in Him rather than anything else.
Keeping a Law I have already broken does not save me. I am already guilty. Nothing I can do will take away that guilt. It remains until a greater power than I removes it. I believe Jesus to be that greater power.

If I truly believe Jesus is that greater power, then I will listen to Him, and I will do as He instructed.

Rom. 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

God gave Moses "works" for a man to do which were to take away his sins, (Until the Seed should come) therefore saving him from death. A man that did these "works" lived by doing them. Failure to follow this "Law of works" resulted in no Salvation.

We were to take a goat or turtle dove to the Levite Priest, and he would perform sacrificial "Works" to atone for our sins. It's in your Bible.

This is the "Righteousness which is of the Law" This is the "LAW of Works" Paul spoke of in Rom 3, and again in Galatians.

But the Law of Faith Abraham had, that Jesus followed and taught, that God judges the whole world with.

Paul chose to Quote Deuteronomy to make his point.

Duet. 30:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

This is the Lord I believe. He has Laws and requirements. Any other Lord is a imposter, IMO.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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When did God or me say Moses was unfaithful? Please explain your commenter self .
The verse say Moses not faithfully, but my question is : is Moses law different from God law?

I am not ask is Moses faithfull ?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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The verse say Moses not faithfully, but my question is : is Moses law different from God law?

I am not ask is Moses faithfull ?
The verse said Moses was faithful, not unfaithful.

Can you show me where Moses created a Law?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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is Moses law different from God law?
In 1 Corinthians 9:20-21 Paul says he is not under Moses' law but he is still under God's law. Paul says he is able to be as one without law, and still be under God's law because he is under the law of Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Leviticus 18:4-7 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the LORD your God. You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the LORD. "None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness....

Paul calls this 'the Law' ((singular)) in Romans 10

It's not limited to priestly/sacrificial ordinances. It is one Law.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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In 1 Corinthians 9:20-21 Paul says he is not under Moses' law but he is still under God's law. Paul says he is able to be as one without law, and still be under God's law because he is under the law of Christ.
1 Cor. 9:
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

You reject some basic truths about this verse.

Both the Jews and the Gentiles Paul is speaking to here are not on the correct path. Paul is using tools at his disposal to "Gain them" or "convert them" into the true church of God. Paul has already told us several times what He teaches to both Jews and Gentiles.

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, (Jews) and at Jerusalem (Jews), and throughout all the coasts of Judaea,(Jews) and then to the Gentiles, that they should (ALL) repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

And again;

Rom. 2:
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,


9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

This is the teaching that Paul "Gains" them with. He uses different approaches to different people of different back grounds. This has nothing to do with rejecting the instructions of the Word which became Flesh.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Leviticus 18:4-7 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the LORD your God. You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the LORD. "None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness....

Paul calls this 'the Law' ((singular)) in Romans 10

It's not limited to priestly/sacrificial ordinances. It is one Law.
Lev. 18:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I (Word which became Flesh) am the LORD your God.

This is speaking to the Israelites, not the Levites. Once again, you are in error.

3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.

4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.

5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

Jesus said the TWO greatest Commandments in the Law are to "Love the Lord thy God with all our heart" and to "Love your neighbor as yourself". He said that on these two Commandments, "Hang all the Law and Prophets".

Some of the Law and Prophets tell us HOW to Love God, and some of the Law and Prophets teach us HOW to Love our neighbor.

It is not a "labor of Love" to "uncover the nakedness of another member of God's Church". I'm quite sure most people would agree with this even if you don't.

This Commandment of God has been around a long time.

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

This Commandment had absolutely ZERO to do with the Priesthood, a separate set of instructions given for the service of the tabernacle. You unbelief of this separation doesn't make the truth of the Bible void.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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I have not found in my Bible where Moses created any law. Can you post a scripture which shows Moses created "law"?
Nehemiah 10:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

God's Law given by Moses. As holy, just and good that the Law was/is, its interesting to note that it was considered that they entered "into a curse and into an oath to walk in God's law." A curse because it was a ministry of condemnation, the Law leads men to Christ showing their inadequacy to fulfill its demands.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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You reject some basic truths about this verse
You keep saying things like this and then completely failing to back them up with any evidence whatsoever.

That's called "slander"

The rest of what you wrote in no way at all corroborates the defamation of character you opened up your post with; it's wholly unrelated to the libelous & malicious personal attack you made. ((again))

Why do you keep doing this?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I have not found in my Bible where Moses created any law. Can you post a scripture which shows Moses created "law"?
So only God create law in the OT
when apostle Paul say we not under the law is mean all law in OT.

Why you believe you are under law of 4 st commandment.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Nehemiah 10:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

God's Law given by Moses. As holy, just and good that the Law was/is, its interesting to note that it was considered that they entered "into a curse and into an oath to walk in God's law." A curse because it was a ministry of condemnation, the Law leads men to Christ showing their inadequacy to fulfill its demands.
Oh my Ben,

Have you not read Nehemiah? If you would you would see that your comments have nothing to do with the message and example of the Book. Just the opposite. These people had lost their way, lost God's Word's and God sent them Nehemiah to teach them in His Ways.

To preach that God sent Nehemiah to teach them a false doctrine is not supported by any of the Word's of the Word which became flesh.

They were "repenting" and "turning to God" as Paul taught in Acts 26.

19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

God's Instruction on how to love Him and how to love others is not a ministration of death. The Priesthood Jesus changed was, but the "good" Just, perfect and Holy Commands of God are not. And Nehemiah does not teach what you suggest. IMO.