GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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lightbearer said:
We are to have the Faith of Jesus working in us. We are to be dead nevertheless alive yet not us but Christ living in us. And the life we are to be living is to be by the Faith OF Jesus Christ.

Abraham and John the Baptist are not our examples of what is available to us through GOD's Spirit; Jesus is.
Stop looking for and promoting an excuse for sin.

There is no excuse for sin through Christ.
Through Him we can do all things because He strengthens us.

With the mind set you are proclaiming you set the man of GOD up for a fall immediately. Because It is not of Faith; it is sin from the start.

That is right through Faith.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


And the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

For Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 1:15-17; 10:6-8, 4)

Do we then make void the Law through Faith? Nay we finally establish it through Christ. Because it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not us but Christ. He doeth the work because He is the vine and we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. But with Him all things are possible!

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed. He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of GOD be fulfilled in us that walk after Spirit and not after the flesh.

So go and sin no more lest something worse happen to us. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20-22; Heb 10:26-31)
Seem to me you believe after accept Jesus, a man will perfect never sin again. The fact is Paul criticized Peter, it tell Peter not perfect
Your response here in this post is telling me You are not reading the posts to which you are responding to
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Those verses are referring to us experiencing the Gospel and turning from sin. The ceasing from our work like GOD did from HIS is referring to us ceasing from physical work like GOD did from HIS on the Seventh Day.
The purpose of physically resting one day a week was to cause the children of Israel to seek foremost the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness and know GOD was sanctifying them. Jesus gave instruction to always do the former, and the indwelling holy spirit always lets us know it is sanctifying us. Very different reality we are dealing with now.
 
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We are to have the Faith of Jesus working in us. We are to be dead nevertheless alive yet not us but Christ living in us. And the life we are to be living is to be by the Faith OF Jesus Christ.
And the 4th commandment is not of the faith of Jesus.

But the law is not of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3:12
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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You are trying to contradict what is clearly stated in the Scripture quote. That is a dangerous game.

Days, and months, and times, and years absolutely INCLUDES sabbath days and feast days. Indeed Paul makes this crystal clear in Colossians 2:16,17:

What is Paul teaching here?
Glad you asked. He is referring to those Sabbaths and feast days contained in the Book of the Law. Not the Sabbath to which is mandated in the Decalogue.
It is the handwriting to the ordinances to which he speaks. And only those that were against. Not all that Moses was given to share were against us. Most of it was for are betterment. Those which GOD gave Moses to pen in the Book of the Law that dealt with when we sinned were against us; the judgments. For they condemned us. Some other statutes pertaining to feast days and what not pointed to Christ or were fulfilled in Christ. The Decalogue was not against us and was not the handwriting to the ordinances, the Book of the Law was. And as was said only the judgments when we sinned were against us not the laws and statutes to which showed us what sin was.
Please also notice that verse 13 ends with the fact that we have been quickened together with Him having been forgiven all trespasses. That clause there shows us there is no more a need for the judgments that were against us and that were contrary to us for we have been forgiven already. It sets the context to what follows.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(Col 2:13-15)
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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And the 4th commandment is not of the faith of Jesus.

But the law is not of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3:12
Galatians is a large letter.
What Faith is being spoken of here?

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(Gal 2:20-21 KJV)
We live but not us, Christ lives in us; and the life we now live, we live by The Faith of Christ. Faith of not Faith in. They two shall be one flesh; A Great mystery but I speak of Christ and the Church.
For He is the vine we are the branches; without Him we can do nothing. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. Christ in us the hope of Glory.

So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

For Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:6-8, 4)
 

lightbearer

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The purpose of physically resting one day a week was to cause the children of Israel to seek foremost the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness and know GOD was sanctifying them. Jesus gave instruction to always do the former
So did GOD; HE said Love me with all your heart, mind, and soul. He also said in your getting up and sitting down always have what I have given you on your mind; and teach this life to your children.,
and the indwelling holy spirit always lets us know it is sanctifying us.
That my friend has always been available and is subject to ones acceptance of the gift.
For the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

And how and when will HE do this circumcision of the heart; the giving of the Holy Spirit?

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Christ) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:11-14 KJV)
Paul repeated these verses in Romans 10 to draw their attention back to them and the truth that is contained in them. Us living through GOD's power; The fulfillment of Christ work was always available to any who wish to contend with not against GOD; Israel.
Upon reading from the Book of the Law; which they would have done upon receiving these words from Paul. It must have been quite the eye opener for some and quite a joy for others. Being that what they had been experiencing and had seen was confirmed by Paul.


Very different reality we are dealing with now.
I pray; but narrow is the way and few there be that find it.

Got to go my friend. May the LORD continue to bless us in all HIS Way; Jesus Christ.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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haven't you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?
(Matthew 12:5)
you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 2:5)
But I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.
(Matthew 12:6)


So true.


Why would someone want to worship and obey the shadow, when the substance is here?




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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we should keep it the way HE teaches in the NT,

OK.


I have been asking for someone who is a Sabbath Keeper to provide the scriptures where Jesus taught us how to observe the Sabbath, under the New Covenant, and specifically where He commanded us to gather on the Sabbath to worship the Lord.


None so far.




JPT
 

Wevcles

Junior Member
May 27, 2011
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The Sunday is not biblical, that is the Rest-day, but the biblical Sabbat just.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
In the New Testament, Jesus declared Himself "lord of the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:8). He equated Himself with God the Father, becoming God in human form. In addition, Jesus declared, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27).

In Hebrews 3 and 4, the author developed the concept of Jesus as our Sabbath rest, revealing how a relationship with Christ frees humans from the works of the law and allows a person to rest in the work of Christ to forgive sin. Ultimately, those who believe in Jesus will spend eternity in a "Sabbath rest" with Him (Hebrews 4:9).
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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And the 4th commandment is not of the faith of Jesus.

But the law is not of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3:12
The Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins is not of faith. The Jews were not trying to get the Galatians to "Love God with all their heart" or "Love your neighbor as yourself" to "Receive the Spirit", they were trying to get the Galatians to follow their Priesthood for the remission of sins.

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Abraham had God's Laws, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood. It was "ADDED" 430 years later.

The Sabbath observance is the one Commandment that truly Honors the Christ. It was Him, as the Word which became Flesh, that created this Day from the beginning of creation. And He sanctified it, made it Holy, and set it apart. Of all the Commandments, He is truly the Lord of the Sabbath.

13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

This commandment is about Honoring Him, showing Faith in Him, this is His Sabbath that He created FOR ME. "therefore it is "lawful" to do good on the Sabbath days.

Ez. 20:
11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

12 Moreover also I (Jesus, the Word which became flesh) gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

To preach that the Sabbath is not of faith, or that to "love the Lord your God" is not of faith is just not true and that is not what Paul taught in Galatians.
 

Wevcles

Junior Member
May 27, 2011
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My Position about the Sabbath is follow: The Sabbatday is from the Creation yet and will be of the new Earth too. Whay shall the Lord, our Lord, abolish this holy Day? God dont change his Commandments.
God change themselves never. He is the Lord the same yesterday and ever.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins is not of faith. The Jews were not trying to get the Galatians to "Love God with all their heart" or "Love your neighbor as yourself" to "Receive the Spirit", they were trying to get the Galatians to follow their Priesthood for the remission of sins.
Paul was clearly talking about the whole law, not this imaginary fiction you have running through your head. btw, if you live by the law and don't do everything in the law (which you don't) you are cursed.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live out of faith.” But the law is not out of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” Galatians 3:10-13
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Galatians is a large letter.
What Faith is being spoken of here?
((in response to Galatians 3:12 - "the Law is not of faith"))

contextually, we have this:

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain — if it really was in vain?
So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the Law, or by your believing what you heard? So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
(Galatians 3:1-9)

it seems the faith the scripture is talking about is believing what you have heard, being compared to Abraham believing a promise that had nothing to do with any action he took, and being contrasted with the doing of the things in the Law. a mental process vs. a physical process; reliance on what we believe rather than what we do. if we rely on what we believe, we rely not on ourselves, but on the work we believe has been accomplished; the One who has done the thing we believe. His faithfulness to keep His promise. "Jesus Christ clearly crucified"

throughout Galatians the belief of the gospel is contrasted with the doing of the Law, spiritual vs. physical. in verse 3 here the Law is even compared with 'the flesh' in contrast with belief, which is of the Spirit.

For if the inheritance depends on the Law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
(Galatians 3:18)

what promise? not the promise of the Law, that 'the one who does these things will live by them' - that is established to be impossible ((vv. 10-14, 21-22, etc)) and the righteousness of such doing contrasted over and over with the righteousness of belief.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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there is a shocking question in this chapter:

Why, then, was the Law given at all?
(Galatians 3:19)

one does not ask this question unless the argument being given has naturally led to the conclusion that the Law is somehow unnecessary, absent, superfluous or extraneous.

it reminds me of another shocking question Paul posed:

What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?
(Romans 6:1)
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace?
(Romans 6:15)

the answer is clearly no - but the fact that the question comes up at all means that the argument being presented - the gospel of Christ crucified and risen - naturally leads to such a conclusion: that grace abounds triumphantly over sin, that we are not under the Law, that the curse of the Law and the sting of sin are powerless over us. that grace abounds all the more in the presence of sin, so... ?

it seems to me that, while these questions do have clear answers, if the gospel is correctly being presented, these questions naturally come up. that if we proclaim the truth and no one ever says 'wait, why was the Law ever given in the first place?' or 'wait, does that mean we should actually keep sinning?' then perhaps we're not talking about the same gospel. maybe there is a way to teach the work of Christ without this ever coming up, but the way that the scripture presents it - as Paul writes - they are questions that sure do arise: the evidence of that is their existence in the text.
the fact that his rationale logically leads to such questions makes it very difficult to argue that Paul is in any way preaching a salvation that depends on a righteousness through Law or through human works.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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My Position about the Sabbath is follow: The Sabbatday is from the Creation yet and will be of the new Earth too. Whay shall the Lord, our Lord, abolish this holy Day? God dont change his Commandments.
God change themselves never. He is the Lord the same yesterday and ever.

what do you think about the New Moon festival?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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So did GOD; HE said Love me with all your heart, mind, and soul
He said this in what you called 'the handwriting and ordinances against us' nailed to the cross while ((you say)) the 10 commandments remain uncrucified.

It's not in the decalogue, and neither is love your neighbor. If you insist on shattering the Law into bits like this, then you are left with that the foundation of the Law is found in those ordinances nailed to the cross.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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JPT[/QUOTE]
Paul was clearly talking about the whole law, not this imaginary fiction you have running through your head. btw, if you live by the law and don't do everything in the law (which you don't) you are cursed.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live out of faith.” But the law is not out of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” Galatians 3:10-13
That's OK,

You can create your own version of what "Works" were commanded by God through Moses for the atonement of sins, for "justification" for "Cleansing" for "Righteousness". You can preach it wasn't the service of the Priesthood Jesus said He would change in Jer. 31. It's your religion, you preach whatever you want.

Your unbelief in the Word which became Flesh does not erase or make Void His Words.

If the Galatians were depending on the "works of the Law" created for the remission of sins, they were truly cursed.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

But if you are preaching that the Galatians didn't have to honor and Love God with all their heart, or Love their neighbor as themselves to be accepted by God then you are deceived whether you know it or not. At least as to the teaching of the Bible.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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But if you are preaching that the Galatians didn't have to honor and Love God with all their heart, or Love their neighbor as themselves to be accepted by God then you are deceived whether you know it or not. At least as to the teaching of the Bible.
You're the one who's deceived. You proclaim Moses instead of (anti) Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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ou can create your own version of what "Works" were commanded by God through Moses
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
(Galatians 3:10)

the Bible refers to "
works of the Law" as ALL THINGS written in it, not 'only some of the sacrificial duties of the Levites which were in particular ordained for atonement'

as far as the possibility of a human making for themselves their own version of scripture, it's evident that it's possible to do, and likewise evident that it is wicked and vain.