GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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there is a shocking question in this chapter:

Why, then, was the Law given at all?
(Galatians 3:19)

one does not ask this question unless the argument being given has naturally led to the conclusion that the Law is somehow unnecessary, absent, superfluous or extraneous.


Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

I have asked you these questions before and you ignore them. I'll ask again.

What were the "Works of the Law" "ADDED" to? What was being "Transgressed" that inspired God to "ADD" a Law "until the seed should come"?

Did Abraham have God's Laws? Did Abraham have the Levitical Priesthood, or was it "ADDED" 430 years later?




it reminds me of another shocking question Paul posed:
What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?
(Romans 6:1)
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace?
(Romans 6:15)

the answer is clearly no - but the fact that the question comes up at all means that the argument being presented - the gospel of Christ crucified and risen - naturally leads to such a conclusion: that grace abounds triumphantly over sin, that we are not under the Law, that the curse of the Law and the sting of sin are powerless over us. that grace abounds all the more in the presence of sin, so... ?


There was a question regarding the "Law of Moses".

Not a question about whether we are free to murder people, or hate our brothers, or hate God, to lie to each other, or steal from each other. This behavior is not Lawful, not righteous, and not acceptable to God as Paul spells out over and over. Even Cain knew this.

So what was the question?

The Pharisees, who didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, were STILL preaching the duties of the Priesthood for salvation. They continued to perform duties of the Levite Priest even though they were no longer "priests" of God.

Are sins forgiven, is righteousness gained, were they justified by the "Works of the Law" Moses received from God specifically designed for the Levite Priests for the atonement of sins?

Is "righteousness" achieved by these "works of the Law"? Was Abrahams sin atoned for by these "Works of the Law"? No, Abraham Loved God, and obeyed God's Laws, but Levi was not even born yet. He was "Justified" apart from this Law. This Law was not even "ADDED" until 430 years later.

This is the truth about Gal. 3 Post.

It is religious tradition which transgresses the Commandments of God that preach there was no "ADDED" Law, that Abraham didn't have God's Laws. That there is no difference between the duties of the Priesthood and the Commandments God prepared beforehand that we all should walk in them, as did Abraham.

This false teaching is the root foundation of most of the teaching in mainstream Christianity and is the reason the Bible tells us to "Beware of men" "Take Heed no man deceive us" "test the spirits" and to "Come out of her My people".

It is both sad and frustrating that religious people absolutely refuse to accept the Love of the Truth regarding the "Law of Faith" we are to be judged by.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of (Mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Like Abraham did)

But I have to remember, Jesus said it would be that way.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD,(Word which became Flesh) Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

But they said, We will not walk therein.

As it is to this day.






 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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="posthuman, post: 3622345, member: 170505"]
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
(Galatians 3:10)
In the context of Galatians bewitched by Pharisees or Jews, this is because if I am depending on "works of the Law" for atonement, that is the blood of animals and Levitical Priesthood duties to atone for my sins, I can't sin. "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." But I have already sinned, therefore I am cursed because I did not continue is "ALL" things written.
But If I have Faith in the Word's of God, and Love Him with all my heart, as did Abraham, I am free from the "curse of the Law", and be granted repentance and a New Chance to "Serve Him in Holiness".
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
the Bible refers to "works of the Law" as ALL THINGS written in it, not 'only some of the sacrificial duties of the Levites which were in particular ordained for atonement'

as far as the possibility of a human making for themselves their own version of scripture, it's evident that it's possible to do, and likewise evident that it is wicked and vain.


Not only possible, but the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time did it all the time.

"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Man has created their own righteousness and their religion since Eve listened to the snake and not God.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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there is a shocking question in this chapter:

Why, then, was the Law given at all? (Galatians 3:19)
one does not ask this question unless the argument being given has naturally led to the conclusion that the Law is somehow unnecessary, absent, superfluous or extraneous.
The law of Moses was a parentheses in the revelation of GOD, IMO to bring all men under condemnation and to establish a legal context for the cross.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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="posthuman, post: 3622345, member: 170505"]

when you are done lecturing us, oh mighty studyman, perhaps you can explain why , when in your religion, the law is divided into a half a dozen different parts, but in the truth of Biblical reality , the same greek word for law is used 190 or so times in the N.T.

care to explain?
 

beta

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Aug 8, 2016
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OK.


I have been asking for someone who is a Sabbath Keeper to provide the scriptures where Jesus taught us how to observe the Sabbath, under the New Covenant, and specifically where He commanded us to gather on the Sabbath to worship the Lord.


None so far.




JPT
And as I have said time and again you will not find specific instructions or commands in the NT as we had in the Old where LAW ruled !
NOW we are in the period of Grace and Pardon we are expected to respond to the Will of God in loving obedience because of HIS love for us !
Now LOVE rules and it needs no commands ! When you are WALKING with Yashua as His Disciple you just go where HE goes out of love for Him !!!
and more so....you will consider it an honour and privilege to be given opportunity to do so !!!
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

I have asked you these questions before and you ignore them. I'll ask again.

What were the "Works of the Law" "ADDED" to? What was being "Transgressed" that inspired God to "ADD" a Law "until the seed should come"?
Galatians 3:19 doesn't say 'works of the Law' were added. Galatians 3:19 says "the Law" was added.
let's not change the text.


the promise of coming of the seed was first given in Genesis 3:15
before Genesis 3 in the text there is one command recorded as given to man:


From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
(Genesis 2:16-17)
the promise that the seed would come through Abraham was given in Genesis 15:4-6. no prerequisite is given to Abraham at that time, but 'he believed God, and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.'
when Abraham then asked, how will i know? ((asking for surety for the promise God made)) he is at that time commanded


“Bring Me a three year old heifer, and a three year old female goat, and a three year old ram, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.”
(Genesis 15:9)

all of which but the birds he cut in two. he waited. carrion came and he drove them away. he fell asleep.
then, at that time the LORD gave him another command:


Know for certain
(Genesis 15:13)

and confirmed the promise He had already made. (())



the first sin of the children of Israel recorded after leaving Egypt is in Exodus 14:

As Pharaoh drew near, the sons of Israel looked, and behold, the Egyptians were marching after them, and they became very frightened; so the sons of Israel cried out to the LORD. Then they said to Moses,
“Is it because there were no graves in Egypt that you have taken us away to die in the wilderness? Why have you dealt with us in this way, bringing us out of Egypt?
“Is this not the word that we spoke to you in Egypt, saying, ‘Leave us alone that we may serve the Egyptians’? For it would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the wilderness.”
(Exodus 14:10-12)

they doubted.
the Pillar of cloud and fire was before them all this time, day and night ((re: Exodus 13:22)), but they grumbled and were afraid of Pharaoh, and of death.


Moses at that time gave them this command:

“Do not fear! Stand by and see the salvation of the LORD which He will accomplish for you today; for the Egyptians whom you have seen today, you will never see them again forever.
“The LORD will fight for you while you keep silent.”
(Exodus 14:13-14)
do not fear;
stand;
see the salvation of the LORD


:)
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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“Do not fear! Stand by and see the salvation of the LORD which He will accomplish for you today; for the Egyptians whom you have seen today, you will never see them again forever. “The LORD will fight for you while you keep silent.”
(Exodus 14:13-14)

do not fear;
stand;
see the salvation of the LORD


:)

this sounds a little bit like

"REST IN HIM!"

doesn't it?
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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lightbearer said:
We are to have the Faith of Jesus working in us. We are to be dead nevertheless alive yet not us but Christ living in us. And the life we are to be living is to be by the Faith OF Jesus Christ.

Abraham and John the Baptist are not our examples of what is available to us through GOD's Spirit; Jesus is.
Stop looking for and promoting an excuse for sin.

There is no excuse for sin through Christ.
Through Him we can do all things because He strengthens us.

With the mind set you are proclaiming you set the man of GOD up for a fall immediately. Because It is not of Faith; it is sin from the start.

That is right through Faith.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


And the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

For Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 1:15-17; 10:6-8, 4)

Do we then make void the Law through Faith? Nay we finally establish it through Christ. Because it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not us but Christ. He doeth the work because He is the vine and we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. But with Him all things are possible!

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed. He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of GOD be fulfilled in us that walk after Spirit and not after the flesh.

So go and sin no more lest something worse happen to us. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20-22; Heb 10:26-31)Your response here in this post is telling me You are not reading the posts to which you are responding to

So you believe after accepting Jesus a man able to sin or not?
 

lightbearer

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He said this in what you called 'the handwriting and ordinances against us' nailed to the cross while ((you say)) .
That is not what the post stated.
Here it is again. Please show me where that is stated like you say and I will repent and ask for forgiveness of GOD and you all.

He is referring to those Sabbaths and feast days contained in the Book of the Law. Not the Sabbath to which is mandated in the Decalogue.
It is the handwriting to the ordinances to which he speaks. And only those that were against. Not all that Moses was given to share were against us. Most of it was for are betterment. Those which GOD gave Moses to pen in the Book of the Law that dealt with when we sinned were against us; the judgments. For they condemned us. Some other statutes pertaining to feast days and what not pointed to Christ or were fulfilled in Christ. The Decalogue was not against us and was not the handwriting to the ordinances, the Book of the Law was. And as was said only the judgments when we sinned were against us not the laws and statutes to which showed us what sin was.
Please also notice that verse 13 ends with the fact that we have been quickened together with Him having been forgiven all trespasses. That clause there shows us there is no more a need for the judgments that were against us and that were contrary to us for we have been forgiven already. It sets the context to what follows.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(Col 2:13-15)
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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It is the handwriting to the ordinances to which he speaks. And only those that were against. Not all that Moses was given to share were against us. Most of it was for are betterment. Those which GOD gave Moses to pen in the Book of the Law that dealt with when we sinned were against us; the judgments. For they condemned us. Some other statutes pertaining to feast days and what not pointed to Christ or were fulfilled in Christ. The Decalogue was not against us and was not the handwriting to the ordinances, the Book of the Law was. And as was said only the judgments when we sinned were against us not the laws and statutes to which showed us what sin was.
you're breaking the Law into two pieces, correct?

"the decalogue"
vs.
"the handwriting to the ordinances"


"the 10 commandments"
vs.
"the book of the Law"


& you're saying 'the book of the Law' is what is against us, not 'the decalogue' right?

the foundation of all the Law is not in the 10 commandments. it's in 'the other part'
which part should we be trying to avoid being nailed to the cross?


for your argument to work maybe you need it to be broken into more than two pieces, i think.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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for your argument to work maybe you need it to be broken into more than two pieces, i think.
also i think that argument needs the Bible to say things like "sin shall have no more dominion over you, because you are under Law without some of the statues and ordinances" or "because you are not under ordinances but Law with some statutes but not others" etc
. . instead of what it really says.


that you'd kinda have to change the words in the scripture all over the place to make that fit.
this is the impression i get, anyway. 500 pages haven't changed that impression.


i believe God's salvation is greater than what that argument portrays it to be, and am unconvinced that un-fiddled-with scripture supports it.
 

lightbearer

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you're breaking the Law into two pieces, correct?
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
(Deu 30:10-16 KJV)

GOD says in verse 10, "To keep the Commandments and Statutes which are written in the Book of the Law."
Then HE goes on to say, that the above Commandment to keep the Commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of the Law is not far from us; but the word (HIS Commandments and Statutes; the voice of the LORD) is nigh unto to us; in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it.

In the above text GOD segregates the Book of the Law into three parts. Commandments, Statutes and Judgments.
Please take notice that the judgments are not included to that which is in our hearts and mouths only the commandments and statutes.

God excludes them.
 

lightbearer

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So you believe after accepting Jesus a man able to sin or not?
Show me where you get that idea one way or another from the post to which you are responding too
lightbearer said:
We are to have the Faith of Jesus working in us. We are to be dead nevertheless alive yet not us but Christ living in us. And the life we are to be living is to be by the Faith OF Jesus Christ.

Abraham and John the Baptist are not our examples of what is available to us through GOD's Spirit; Jesus is.
Stop looking for and promoting an excuse for sin.

There is no excuse for sin through Christ.
Through Him we can do all things because He strengthens us.

With the mind set you are proclaiming you set the man of GOD up for a fall immediately. Because It is not of Faith; it is sin from the start.

That is right through Faith.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


And the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

For Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 1:15-17; 10:6-8, 4)

Do we then make void the Law through Faith? Nay we finally establish it through Christ. Because it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not us but Christ. He doeth the work because He is the vine and we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. But with Him all things are possible!

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed. He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of GOD be fulfilled in us that walk after Spirit and not after the flesh.

So go and sin no more lest something worse happen to us. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20-22; Heb 10:26-31)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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so you're breaking the Law into 4 parts?

ten commandments, ((other)) commandments, statutes, and judgements ?

what does "you are not under Law but grace" mean now, we're under commandments, 10 commandments, statutes but nut under judgements?
which particular disassembled bits is the Bible talking about when it says "
the Law" ?

what is nailed to the cross? only judgements?
judgements and sacrificial statutes but not other statutes?
judgements and certain ((but not all)) statutes and certain ((but not all)) ordinances?
some commandments but not others?


is Romans 7 supposed to say, "know ye not brethren (for I speak to them that know the Law) that the judgements and certain of the statutes hath dominion over a man so long as he liveth but the commandments, especially 10 of them, particularly the 4th, some statutes and definitely the ordinances follow after the grave" ?
the example in verse 2 is a woman bound to her husband by the Law only so long as he lives.


is marriage a judgement?
is marriage a Levitical priesthood duty?
is it blood atonement sacrifice?
a statute?
an ordinance?
a law?
a commandment?
faith?
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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so you're breaking the Law into 4 parts? ten commandments, ((other)) commandments, statutes, and judgements ?
No GOD did. He said through Moses,
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
(Deu 30:10-16 KJV)

GOD says in verse 10, "To keep the Commandments and Statutes which are written in the Book of the Law."
Then HE goes on to say, that the above Commandment to keep the Commandments and Statutes contained in the Book of the Law is not far from us; but the word (HIS Commandments and Statutes; the voice of the LORD) is nigh unto to us; in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it.

In the above text GOD segregates the Book of the Law into three parts not me. Commandments, Statutes and Judgments.
Please take notice that the judgments are not included to that which is in our hearts and mouths only the commandments and statutes.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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what's nailed to the cross?
what are we under?
what is marriage?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Show me where you get that idea one way or another from the post to which you are responding too
You say: there is no excuse for sin through Christ

Through Him we can do all things because He strengthens us.


1. No excuse for sin through Christ.

A. What is that mean?
B. After accepting Christ, is that mean everything you do through Christ?

2. Through Him we can do all things because He strengthens us

A. You can do all thing, is that mean you can life a Holy live, no sin any more after accepting Jesus?

That why I ask you a question base of your statement above

Do you believe after accepting Christ, He will strengthen you to the point that you never sin anymore?
 

ELOHIMLOGOS

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2018
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And the 4th commandment is not of the faith of Jesus.

But the law is not of faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3:12
Goodness. Of course the Law is not faith. However do you abolish the law through faith?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

You may need to re-read your bible. If you continue in sin then you are still under the law (Romans 3:19-20).

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments and just like all the commandments if we break any one of these we stand before God guilty of sin.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Goodness. Of course the Law is not faith. However do you abolish the law through faith?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

You may need to re-read your bible. If you continue in sin then you are still under the law (Romans 3:19-20).

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments and just like all the commandments if we break any one of these we stand before God guilty of sin.
2 Corinthians 3:7 explicitly says that GOD abolished (καταργέω - rendered useless) the 10 commandments.

1 John 3:4 says that sin is lawlessness, not transgression of the law of Moses. Lawlessness is not obeying the words of Christ.

You're reasoning is flawed. You say sin is breaking the law, and then say we are under the law if we sin. But we can't break law we are not under (Romans 6:14), and doing a sin doesn't put us under law because we are dead to the law through Christ (Romans 7:4).