GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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valiant,
re: "
Our Lord also offered sacrifices.
"

Other than Himself, what do you have in mind?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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valiant,
re: "
Our Lord also offered sacrifices.
"

Other than Himself, what do you have in mind?
He sent His disciples to offer the Passover Lamb on behalf of them all. And He partook of it every year,

Furthermore if He had not offered sacrifices the Pharisees would have been on to Him like a ton of bricks
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
744
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valiant,

OK, thanks.

BTW, you suggested that "if He had not offered sacrifices the Pharisees would have been on to Him like a ton of bricks". I wonder if that same logic would apply to His attitude with regard to the Levitical dietary rules?
 
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Was that a yes or a no, @LoveGodForever?
it was a little ambiguous to me sorry. just curious, not trying to grab a dog by the ears or anything.
Hello posthuman,

Sorry I thought I answered the question. My first post to the question is all scripture supporting that Jesus IS GOD and my second post is saying OF Course I believe Jesus is God I do not know how this may seem ambiguous to you. Maybe it is my writing style as I am not the best writer. If that is the case please forgive me
 
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LGF.. once the question that requires a yes or no to be counted a Believer comes out.. you know they have no more Scripture to share so they resort to distracting... The power of GOD is not tied to the million dollar question...GOD knows who Love and Believe His Son’s Testament.. those sharing His Teachings are certainly not unbelievers...
Hi LM1 yes this is true and why the armor of God is for the protection of the saints. His Word is sharper then any two edged sword cutting through the darkness so let his light (truth) shine through and is why some do not like the God's Word. It is the same Word that is the power of God unto salvation to all those who believe circumcising the heart to be free to love as he first loved us so when he bids us come walk on water we can follow him...
 
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He didn't give the Sabbath to anyone.
Our Lord also offered sacrifices. Do you?
Hello valiant,

Do you BELIEVE Jesus is God? If you did you would know that Jesus did indeed give all of His commandments to us. If you read the OP here you would know why we no longer offer sacrifices. I see you did not read the OP and if you did not read the OP how can you comment here as you do not know what is being discussed.
 
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:( Just woke up (my time) so please forgive me for all my typos in my posts this morning

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO HAVE FAITH?

God says THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and we commit ADULTERY are we choosing to BELIEVE GOD or NOT BELIEVE GOD? We know that the law is HOLY and GOOD but I am carnal sold under SIN. God' asks me to do something but in my own power I know NOT how to do that which I know to be GOOD.

Jesus (the WORD) says; They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but go ye and learn what that means I have NOT come to call the RIGHTEOUS but SINNERS to REPENTANCE

God' knows we are all SINNERS in filthy rags and only by ABIDING IN HIM by FAITH can we walk on water when he bids us come. OUR Part is to BELIEVE HIS WORD which is the POWER of GOD that created ALL things. FAITH is the VICTORY that GOD GIVES to those who BELIEVE His WORD so they can FOLLOW HIM and walk as he walked.

Without him we can do nothing but ABIDING IN HIM through FAITH in HIS WORD we WALK as HE WALKED in the SPIRIT through LOVE and LOVE is the FULFILLING of God's LAW in those that HAVE FAITH. THIS is the VICTORY that OVERCOMES the WORLD because if the son shall make you FREE you shall be FREE indeed.

To have Faith simply means to BELIEVE God's Word and FOLLOW what it says. If God says THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and we commit Adultery we are NOT walking in FAITH and do not know the POWER of God's salvation and NEED TO SEEK GOD who knows our heart.

God also says to us to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY......the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work (Exodus 20:8-11)

Now if I choose to forget the SABBATH DAY and do my work, and any other business transactions (shopping etc) and choose to keep it with my own day instead of the day God specifies am I walking by FAITH? Just like if God says THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and I choose to COMMIT ADULTERY then I am NOT BELIEVING God's Word and NOT WALKING by FAITH.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

May God bless you all as you seek Him through His Word.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant
He didn't give the Sabbath to anyone.
Our Lord also offered sacrifices. Do you?
Do you BELIEVE Jesus is God? If you did you would know that Jesus did indeed give all of His commandments to us.
He gave ALL His commandments, far more than the ten words given to Israel.

If you read the OP here you would know why we no longer offer sacrifices. I see you did not read the OP and if you did not read the OP how can you comment here as you do not know what is being discussed.
But Jesus offered sacrifices. So you are saying that that was the old covenant? LOL so was the ten words.

I NEVER read long posts which just show off peoples' verbiage,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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:(

God also says to us to REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY......the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work (Exodus 20:8-11)
He said that to physical ISRAEL

Now if I choose to forget the SABBATH DAY and do my work, and any other business transactions (shopping etc) and choose to keep it with my own day instead of the day God specifies am I walking by FAITH?
Not if I am a member of physical Israel under the old covenant


Just like if God says THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and I choose to COMMIT ADULTERY then I am NOT BELIEVING God's Word and NOT WALKING by FAITH.
But not just because it is in the covenant with Israel. It is an eternal principle.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
But we are not members of Physical Israel. So it does not refer to us. You are giving us the same old defunct argument that has been debunked again and again

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.
And there is not ONE Scripture that says it apples to gentiles under the new covenant,

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man
Acts 20.7?

that has lead many to break the commandments of God
And has led far more to keeping God's word..


Aren't you embarrassed reciting the same old tired statements again and again and again, even though they have been refuted???
 
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He said that to physical ISRAEL. Not if I am a member of physical Israel under the old covenant
But not just because it is in the covenant with Israel. It is an eternal principle. But we are not members of Physical Israel. So it does not refer to us. You are giving us the same old defunct argument that has been debunked again and again And there is not ONE Scripture that says it apples to gentiles under the new covenant,
Who does God's Word say Israel is?

"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

Israel is only a name given by God that represents God's people and today anyone who is following Jesus is part of God's Israel according to God's Word.

What does God's Word say.....................................…

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16)

Abraham’s seed is Israel............................................

THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (Galatians 3:28).

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again..........................

FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (Romans 9:6).

FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Believe the scriptures.................

Galatians 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:11-13,

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 2:28-29,

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel..........................

Jeremiah 31:33-4,

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Galatians 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)

Aren't you embarrassed reciting the same old tired statements again and again and again, even though they have been refuted???
Now are you telling the truth here valiant? Please show me one post you or your friends have provided that has refuted any of the scriptures I have been sharing with you? If you cannot you should believe God's Word because only the believers and followers of God's Word are his Israel. Unbelievers will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Hello posthuman,

Sorry I thought I answered the question. My first post to the question is all scripture supporting that Jesus IS GOD and my second post is saying OF Course I believe Jesus is God I do not know how this may seem ambiguous to you. Maybe it is my writing style as I am not the best writer. If that is the case please forgive me

that's what i figured :)

because, well, the scripture you put says He is the Lord God -- so why else would you be responding with exactly those scriptures?

but the ambiguity is in that i have seen other people read the same things and argue that He *was* a mere man that gained an exalted state by obedient religious observance. i try to assume better things for the brothers and sisters, but my assumptions are sometimes invalidated :p





((not trying to get involved in any arguments here just poked my nose in to see what the fuss was about))
 
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that's what i figured :)

because, well, the scripture you put says He is the Lord God -- so why else would you be responding with exactly those scriptures?

but the ambiguity is in that i have seen other people read the same things and argue that He *was* a mere man that gained an exalted state by obedient religious observance. i try to assume better things for the brothers and sisters, but my assumptions are sometimes invalidated :p


((not trying to get involved in any arguments here just poked my nose in to see what the fuss was about))
Hi Posthuman,

No worries, I understand what you are saying and thanks for sharing. You are very welcome here. Even though there may be some disagreement it is good to share God's Word together and all are welcome here no matter what they may believe. We should be like the faithful Bareans and point all to the Word of God to see if these things be true or not asking Jesus who promises those that are true of heart the Spirit of truth to be our teacher.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Words
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,780
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Hello posthuman,

Sorry I thought I answered the question. My first post to the question is all scripture supporting that Jesus IS GOD and my second post is saying OF Course I believe Jesus is God I do not know how this may seem ambiguous to you. Maybe it is my writing style as I am not the best writer. If that is the case please forgive me

that's what i figured :)

because, well, the scripture you put says He is the Lord God -- so why else would you be responding with exactly those scriptures?

but the ambiguity is in that i have seen other people read the same things and argue that He *was* a mere man that gained an exalted state by obedient religious observance. i try to assume better things for the brothers and sisters, but my assumptions are sometimes invalidated :p





((not trying to get involved in any arguments here just poked my nose in to see what the fuss was about))
 
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My Beliefs are on solid foundation by the Grace of GOD.. Where do you find these questions to prove a Believer? Catholic Church?
Indeed one must turn away from the Word if God in order to follow the traditions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God (Matt 15:3-9)
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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Hello gotime,

Normally I agree with much you post. Some comments for your consideration below..............



Just want to comment on the highlighted section above and will just ask you a some simple questions to consider, keeping in mind that the scripture says; that in the times if ignorance when someone has no knowledge of God's truth God winks at but when I knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31).

My question for your consideration is;

If God says to two people; "thou shalt not lie" (Exodus 20:16) and one person hears the Word but decides to lie is this first person walking by faith in God's Word or not?No they are not walking by faith assuming they understand what they are rejecting.

Now if God says the same thing to the second person "thou shalt not lie" and because that person believes God's Word and through faith that works by love chooses not to lie is this second person walking by faith? Yes.

Which of the two people in the questions above are walking by faith and how does your answer effect what you have said above highlighted in bold. I have answered above which is walking by faith and which is not. How does it effect what I said above, Not at all because the two questions above are not in the same context as what I said.

To me the person that does not BELIEVE and follow God's Word is NOT walking by faith because they have chosen NOT to follow God's Word.
My answers to your questions above in blue.

The bible as I am sure you are aware says this of faith:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word hearing above means more than just hearing the sound or seeing the words. It means to both hear and understand.
Many see the words or hear the words but do not straightaway understand them for all sorts of reasons. It could be language differences or cultural differences or even a false foundation that colours the words heard.

Being that I do not know if the person I was talking to has had proper opportunity to understand the truth as it is in Gods word it would be folly for my to assume that they don't walk by faith in what they do understand. That is for God to judge as I cannot read the heart and don't know the person to see the fruit.
 
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My answers to your questions above in blue.

The bible as I am sure you are aware says this of faith:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word hearing above means more than just hearing the sound or seeing the words. It means to both hear and understand.
Many see the words or hear the words but do not straightaway understand them for all sorts of reasons. It could be language differences or cultural differences or even a false foundation that colours the words heard.

Being that I do not know if the person I was talking to has had proper opportunity to understand the truth as it is in Gods word it would be folly for my to assume that they don't walk by faith in what they do understand. That is for God to judge as I cannot read the heart and don't know the person to see the fruit.
Hello Friend,

You answered the questions correctly. If God's Word asks us to do something and we have a knowledge of what God's Word is asking us and we reject it then we are NOT walking by Faith in God's Word. Please forgive me, maybe I misunderstood what you posted earlier hence the questions.

No one is telling you to judge anyone. No one is telling you to assume someone is not living up to all the knowledge that God has given them and thus not walking by faith in the things of God's Word they know about.

The two questions above and posted earlier though are in the same context as your earlier statement just different examples. There is a difference between judging someone and judging righteous judgement according to the scriptures as the scriptures say you shall know them by their fruit. Righteous judgement is not our own, it is the Word of God.

Matthew 7
13, Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17, Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19, Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21, ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Saying someone is walking by Faith when the Word says they are not when a knowledge of the truth is presented and rejected does not mean that person is now walking by faith when they have had the opportunity to understand the truth but have chooses to reject it. Now can that seed grow through the Spirit of God and the person then repent and seeks to follow God's Word by Faith? Absolutely, because it is written....

1Co 3:7
So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase.

The focus here is .............

Acts 17

30, At times of this ignorance God winked at; but now ,<When a knowledge of the truth has come> commands all men every where to repent: 31, Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

links to............

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

It is true that a person must receive a knowledge of the truth in order to know and to follow God's Word. Our job is to sow the seed of the Word. Opening the eyes of the understanding is not our work but the work of the Spirit of truth who God gives to those who obey him (Acts 5:32; Acts 2:38; 3:19).

If someone receives a knowledge of the truth and chooses to reject God's Word however and chooses rather to continue in sin they are NOT walking by faith, BELIEVING God's Word. To say someone is then is when they are not is to disregard the Word of God and your duty of LOVE to God and our fellow man.

Ezekiel 3
17, Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18, When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19, Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20, Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21, Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

We must point all to the Word of God. The time is near and the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.....

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are indeed in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.
 
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I would agree . The time of refomation has come the veil is rent, the shadow had become sight .
Will you define what a cerimoinal law is and what it is designed to do? Or will it make the shadows disappear?
Hi garee,

Sorry for the slow reply I am still trying to catch up on many posts so finally getting to this. Yes you are correct the Old Covenant is made up of God's Law and the Mosaic laws for remission of sin (ceremonial laws of Moses). Together (1) God's Law (10 commandments) written by God on two tables of stone and the (2) The Mosaic laws for remission of sin written by Moses in the book of the law make up the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:18-24; Exodus 24:5-8; Deuteronomy 29:21; 31:24-26).

Now do your question what was the purpose of God's Law and the Mosaic laws for remission of sin?

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments).................

Purpose
; reveals what sin and righteousness (right doing) is and the describes the penalty for sin
It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old
Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 31:18; 31:18; Exodus 20:1-22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 7:19; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecclesiastes 3:14)

(2) The Mosaic law for remission of sins (Levitical, ceremonial, sacrificial)

Purpose; was the prescriptive cure for remission of sin (Forgiveness if the God's Law was broken) with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings for sin, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and provided a cure for sin through animal sacrifice and food and drink offerings and yearly sin atonement's for God’s people. (Leviticus 1:1-13; Leviticus 23:1-44; Numbers 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deuteronomy 24:10-11; Exodus 24:3; Deuteronomy 31:24-26; Colossians 2:16-16; Hebrews 10:1; Ephesians 2:14-15; Leviticus 4; 5; 6; Hebrews 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29 not exhaustive there are many more).

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross and shadows of things to come......

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the Savior of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Revelation 5:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Hebrews 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Colossians 2:14; Ephesians 2:15; John 3:16).

Linking the old testament Mosaic Shadow laws for remission of sin to the New Covenant....

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about. He takes away the 1st covenant {the meat and drink offerings} and established the 2nd covenant {the body of Christ}

LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

New testament...blood

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

HEBREWS 8 [2] A MINISTER OF THE SANCTUARY, AND OF THE TRUE TABERNACLE, WHICH THE LORD PITCHED AND NOT MAN. [3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] WHO SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF THE HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. [6] But now hath HE HAS OBTAINED A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED ON BETTER PROMISES . [7] For if that FIRST COVENANT HAD BEEN FAULTLESS, THEN NO PLACE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOUGHT FOR A SECOND. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITHE THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Yep lots of scripture and many more not in this post that identify what the shadow law were that are fulfilled in Christ. It is the Mosaic laws for remission of sin that are the Shadow laws pointing to Jesus and fulfilled in Him and nailed to the cross with our sins.

God's Law (10 commandments) however are forever and the very standard of the Old and New Covenants and the Judgement to come.............

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5).

Now if God's Law (10 commandments) are Forever they cannot be a Shadow of anything and retain the same purpose they have always had and that is to give us a knowledge of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the standard of LOVE and the character of God.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

God bless
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Do we conclude there is no questions worded as asked to prove one a Christian?

If not then please retract your questions that have yet to be supported as the must answer yes or you are not a Christian!

I Believe Heavenly Father and our Lord and Saviour.. Father and Son are One!



Assess a Believer how the Bible describes by all means!! I gave two examples... but fact is that the Lord taught the Sabbath was to be Kept.. and if you think answering yes or no to a question will make you a believer rather than Believing the Lord’s Testament above all else.. then something is fundamentally wrong.