Gods Standard of Righteousness

[Ogom]

You need not any book to read to pick up your cross and deny yourself and follow Jesus. True or false?

Isaiah
Chapter 28

9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is it specifically that you see wrong in his view of the Law?

Or how he interprets the scripture concerning the Law that Paul discusses?

The same thing I have been explaining here

That the law is the means of sanctification. And that a believer who has been led by the schoolmaster is to look to the law for guidance to how to be sanctified in his walk with God.

 

[Charlie24]

The same thing I have been explaining here

That the law is the means of sanctification. And that a believer who has been led by the schoolmaster is to look to the law for guidance to how to be sanctified in his walk with God.

As many statements that are made by all of us, this statement is confusing.

Our sanctification can only be accomplished by the operation and power of the Holy Spirit working through us by our faith in Christ.

Our faith in Christ gives the Holy Spirit the legal right to bring forth the fruits of the Spirit.

Now, if we are not willing or we are not in the relationship we should be in with the Lord, this work of the Holy Spirit will pass us by.

We are still saved but we are not progressing in our sanctification.

 

[Charlie24]

As many statements that are made by all of us, this statement is confusing.

Our sanctification can only be accomplished by the operation and power of the Holy Spirit working through us by our faith in Christ.

Our faith in Christ gives the Holy Spirit the legal right to bring forth the fruits of the Spirit.

Now, if we are not willing or we are not in the relationship we should be in with the Lord, this work of the Holy Spirit will pass us by.

We are still saved but we are not progressing in our sanctification.

I have got to go run some errands in town! I'll be back later. This discussion is good for us so that we can understand one another.

I believe many arguments take place because we do not understand one another, that can be solved by conversation in trying to understand one another.

 

[AandW]

The LAW is simply Designed to show us our Sins!

YAY, we know we are sinners because of the LAW!!

WoooHooooooo

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As many statements that are made by all of us, this statement is confusing.

Our sanctification can only be accomplished by the operation and power of the Holy Spirit working through us by our faith in Christ.

Our faith in Christ gives the Holy Spirit the legal right to bring forth the fruits of the Spirit.

Now, if we are not willing or we are not in the relationship we should be in with the Lord, this work of the Holy Spirit will pass us by.

We are still saved but we are not progressing in our sanctification.

But how do we do this?

According to your buddy, and I think I have heard you say it also

we do this by following the law Specifically the ten commandments.

 

[listenyoumustAll]

No, It is the law of sin and death

because anyone who does not keep them is cursed to death. And what law does god use to pass judgment, The ten commandments written in stone.

As paul said. The command killed him.

they were given to Moses and Israel. Not to the gentiles.

God did not tell moses to take these commands to all the world and make sure they follow them
He told Israel this.


While breaking them is still sin. They were given to Israel

Yes so that the scripture may be fulfilled that God will be called their God and them his people ...

 

[Magenta]

The LAW is simply Designed to show us our Sins!

YAY, we know we are sinners because of the LAW!!

WoooHooooooo

Galatians 3:22-25

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3:22-25

So simple. yet so many people don't get it

 

[peachyking]

The LAW is simply Designed to show us our Sins!

YAY, we know we are sinners because of the LAW!!

WoooHooooooo

This is absurd. The law is the word of God and to be obeyed.

 

[walknlight]

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

G3807 παιδαγωγός paidagogos (pai-d̮a-ğō-ğos') n.
1. a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school.
2. (by implication, figuratively) a tutor (“paedagogue”).
[from G3816 and a reduplicated form of G71]
KJV: instructor, schoolmaster
------
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Once again,

1Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

The Christ is The Standard
Be Blessed!

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 7 is talking about the 10 commandments.

The law of sin and death is the 10 commandments.

I know you don't want to believe it but it is written in scripture.

Romans 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


How do you read scripture and miss it???

How did you miss the following?

Rom 7:8, But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9, For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10, And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11, For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12, Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13, Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

That which is good (the law, the ten commandments) did not become death unto Paul.

Rather, it was sin that produced death in Paul.

How then are the ten commandments the law of sin and death?

According to Romans 7:14, the problem is not with the law (the ten commandments) but with us.

The law of sin and death is defined in verse 21. It is the principle that when I would do good, evil is present with me.

You have again, truly, taken the scriptures out of context.

 

[justbyfaith]

The law is just a shadow of the perfect righteousness of God my friend . Jesus is the standard .

I would agree with that wholeheartedly, and liked your post.

However, I would say that the scripture declares to us that by the law is the knowledge of sin.

It can also be inferred from John 1:1,14, Romans 9:30-33 that there is a sense in which Jesus is the law.

 

[justbyfaith]

the Law of Moses was for Israel only.

gentiles were and not under the Law and have no obligation to keep the Jewish Sabbath.


facts. plain and simple.

The whole world (including Gentiles) will be held guilty by the judgment of God after having been judged by the law (Romans 3:19-20).

 

[justbyfaith]

To hopefully end the confusion, The Moral Law is kept by faith in Christ in God's sight. Even though we are saved, we still can't keep the Moral Law perfectly.

This is where Grace through faith in Christ steps in, we are granted undeserving righteousness from the grace of God by that faith.

Hi @Charlie24,

I believe that when we become sanctified wholly, that while we cannot keep the latter of the law (Galatians 6:13), that the spirit of the law is a different story (Romans 7:6).

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the (spirit of the) law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

Amen, The law is not the standard. It is just the proof that we are sinners. So our sin is exposed as we stand before God.

But it does not even come close to giving us a comprehensive list of all sins which are possible

But, @eternally-gratefull, you agreed in another thread that there is no sin that is not mentioned in holy scripture.

So, there is an inconsistency here.

If the law proves that we are sinners, it is the standard of righteousness as it is written in stone.

For the believer, it is also written in fleshy tables of human hearts (2 Corinthians 3:3).

That it is written in stone for the unbeliever indicates that it is uncompromising and that it is condemning to those who sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But, @eternally-gratefull, you agreed in another thread that there is no sin that is not mentioned in holy scripture.

So, there is an inconsistency here.

If the law proves that we are sinners, it is the standard of righteousness as it is written in stone.

For the believer, it is also written in fleshy tables of human hearts (2 Corinthians 3:3).

That it is written in stone for the unbeliever indicates that it is uncompromising and that it is condemning to those who sin.

I unignored this person to make a point

Here he proves my point.

The only law written on stone is the ten commandments The rest of the law was written on parchment or whatever scrolls they used to write on back them.

Hence in his own words. He to states the standard is the law written in stone (the ten commands) which is so far below the standard we can not even begin to comprehend the magnitude of how sinful we are if we just use this as a guide.

The problem is he does not, nor does it appear he wants to, understand what true sin is. His go to verse is by the law is the knowledge of sin. But it is not comprehensive. I tried to explain it to him, But he did not want to hear.

Maybe @Charlie24 would like to discuss this. I know when I figured out this basic truth a few decades ago it changed my life. I stopped trying to follow commands. which I could never live up to Gods standard. And started loving others and serving them. My sin life shrunk, and I started to become more like Christ. Not because I was special or had any great power. But I understand the true means to sanctification. Take the love from God, and give it to others.

It is more blessed to give than to receive. this also became more real to me as I learned to stop focusing on how good I am by the law. and started to focus on giving and serving.

Rmans 7 is pauls struggle with the law. He wanted to do good because the law said he should , but he found he could not do this, So the law which was given to help him he found cursed him.. So he turned and learned to serve Christ. And stop being a pharisee (focus on obedience to the law)

He also found himself to be the chief of sinners. Even though he admitted himself. according to the law he was righteous (in the eyes of the religious jew)

 

[justbyfaith]

Sadly this thread has become intertwined with all the law threads. So maybe we have forgotten the topic because it all seems jumbled together. Since I can not ee your friend anymore. I can not see his threads either. So it has quieted down.

Is not God's standard of righteousness the law?

 

[justbyfaith]

The same thing I have been explaining here

That the law is the means of sanctification. And that a believer who has been led by the schoolmaster is to look to the law for guidance to how to be sanctified in his walk with God.

The Holy Spirit is the one who sanctifies us.

He does so by pinpointing our sins utilizing the law (Romans 3:20).

Then, when He has pinpointed our sins (because we walk in the light (Proverbs 6:23) as He is in the light), we are then able to confess them and be cleansed from all unrighteousness (1 john 1:7-9).

Is this not sanctification?

 

[Charlie24]

But how do we do this?

According to your buddy, and I think I have heard you say it also

we do this by following the law Specifically the ten commandments.

No, we are not following the Law in any way, remember that Christ fulfilled the Law for us.

By faith in Him we are given the righteousness that God demands but not of our own doing.

This is His Grace toward us, we are not righteous but He gives us that righteousness by faith in Christ.

Then our sanctification begins, the Holy Spirit begins to bring us up the position of our God-given righteousness.

Of course we will not reach the position of perfection in this life that God sees in us through faith in Christ.

We receive this perfection at the resurrection.

As far as the Law, we are aware of the Ten Commandments in this life, but we know we can't keep them perfectly.

This is where we die to self every day, we can't live the perfect Law, but Christ can live it through us.

We will still fail, but it is Christ that is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law in us.

It is total surrender to Christ and faith in Him that allows Him to live through us.

We will not be perfect in this life, but God doesn't expect perfection, He expects us to believe and surrender to Christ.