Gospel or theology?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,313
2,269
113
#61
Many theologians start out as believers and end up somewhere else.
There is legitimate theology (the study of God, which encompasses everything in the Bible) and there is also illegitimate theology (which trieS to intellectualize Bible truth). There has been a great deal of speculation and humanistic reasoning that has entered into many theologies. So we need to remember what is stated in Scripture: PROVE ALL THINGS. HOLD FAST TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,063
822
113
#62
When you witness,give them Jesus.
Not doctrine from knowledge.
Mental files sound to their ears like being told "you are defective,I am not"
Sounds like one of those inseparable things?

I would offer. Not doctrine from dead knowledge. But knowledge like living water falling from or inspired for heaven as the doctrine of God Using living water to represent spirit of knowledge.

Deuteronomy 32:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

A Living knowledge that does not return void of the purpose he sends. We preach Christ not our own selves. He does the teaching and bringing to mind the things he has taught us..

Those who hear mental files rather than the living gospel like those who use words like Bible thumpers. It would seem they do not have ears to hear the grace of the gospel. hearing the word Jesus becomes they say Jesus with every sentence. The gospel must be mixed in.

Isiaiah 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Who has God given understanding to? From the milk of the word teaches us God is gracious They have tasted and believed. Not from those who hear mental files words without meaning rather than the gospel the interpretation of God. We plant and water the seed he does the teaching if there is any growth.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Titus 2:12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Isiaiah 28: 10-14For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem

They simply would not settle for all things written in the law and the Prophets .(sola scriptura) But as those in Jerimiah 44. We will not hearken onto the milk of the word but will rather do whatsoever thing our own mouth says (oral traditions) and see absolutely no evil in doing so. Killing the two witnesses. . . the law and the prophets making the word of God without effect.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,503
2,329
113
#63
The gospel

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Jesus came to die for us that through belief and confession we are reconciled to God through faith.

That's why we can call on the name of the Lord.

That is the Gospel.

Do we preach it or walk in it or both?

For me in a sense we can prech it by walking in it.

Just like Jesus did.
Words are not necessary but actions are.
Jesus loved the broken hearted, the marginalised.
Never rejected them and loved them where they were at.

Did Jesus endorse the theology of his time on earth or come against it?

He came against it.

The theology ruined the gospel.

Theology can lead to religion, the very religion Jesus came against.
The one that puts a millstone round the neck.

Jesus came to show us that we have an Abba Father whom we can call out to.
And be reconciled through faith as a result of what Jesus has done for us and not by what we can do for him.

He is the gospel, showed us the gospel and we walk in that same gospel.
If we did that then we preach it by our actions and not by our words.
 

Sipsey

Active member
Sep 27, 2018
311
165
43
#64
Yes believers are being addressed in that passage, but anyone and everyone can read what is written there. And it is perfectly in keeping with all Gospel truth that God COMMANDS all men to believe (just as He commands all men to repent).

Thus we have this passage which has the phrase "THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH". Obedience corresponds to the commandment of the everlasting God.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my Gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith (Rom 16:25,26)
I believe if God truly “demanded” / “commanded” that “everyone” come to belief in Jesus, then it would occur, and everyone would be saved. Since we know that everyone will not be saved, even though it is His desire, then what we read as a command is really a suggestion, a good one, for our benefit.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,663
1,678
113
#65
Then explain the gospel as how it relates to theology.

Theology can mess up the gospel.
Things like "You are not saved unless baptised"
Or "You are not saved unless you speak in tongues"

Or batptising infants.

What is the gospel Preston?
This is not theology, but doctrinal preferences. If it has been presented to you as theology, whoever did it is clueless about theology.

Theology, in Greek, θεολογία, which is theos and logia. Translated theos = God and logia = study.

So, theology means, the "study of God." I would think we all need to aspire to that. While an unbeliever may have no understanding of who God really is, the Holy Spirit will always lead a believer to know God more and more. The Bible is the best source of that information.

In the interests of full disclosure, I am working on a PhD in theology, although I may have to stop because my health is so bad. One thing you always do is read theologians from every denomination, including the RCC. They may be wrong on many things, but have a glimmer of truth, not previously said, and hence, more learning about who God is, or any of the other topics of theology. Of course, our job is to correctly divide the truth of God, and not be taken in by new or fancy ideas which are not based on the Bible. Some people, I admit, get trapped, and lose sight of the goal of being able to share the truth of who God is, whether while preaching Christ and the gospel, or in denominational decrees.

My pastor believes in Open Theology, a terrible heresy. He doesn't preach it, but I believe he has an anemic view of the sovereignty of God, which comes through in his preaching. I wish I had thought to ask a question like that when he was being vetted. He doesn't advertise it, but he did tell me. I'm still praying about what to do. I do not want to leave my church, but not ready for a confrontation, yet! Maybe a debate?? Not ready for that, either. Sigh!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,663
1,678
113
#66
The ( gospel) good news is that the Lord God Almighty has sent his son as he promised. The work of the son has set you free.
For the time of grace is upon us, forgiveness is found with out stretched arms. Mercy and acceptance are but a prayer away.
His peace and love knocks on the very door of your heart beckoning for the invite to enter.
Behold old things have faded away, all thing become new. The lame shall walk, the blind shall see, the poor shall be rich, the lost shall be found. The dead shall rise . The Lord has declared it and it shall come to pass.
Praise the King of glory, hide his word in your heart, Enter in to the joy of the Lord. For the work of the father is to believe his only begotten.


The theolgy behind this is......there is none😋😋😋😋😋.....it is a gift.
You had me agreeing with you, until the last line. Another person who does not have a clue what theology means!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,663
1,678
113
#67
A knowledge of theology is not required to receive Christ as Savior and be eternally saved. A knowledge of theology generally prevents people from coming to Christ and becoming saved.

We study God after we receive the Holy Spirit who is imparted to us when we are saved. Discipleship is a study in theology. Sound doctrine guides us in our study of theology not the other way around.

The gospel remains a simple truth that even a child is able to comprehend. Men are sinners. God condemns sinners. Jesus came to redeem lost sinful men. Salvation is a gift of God given to all who receive Jesus as Savior. God saves because He is great in mercy and love. God condemns because men reject His Son as Savior. Men are condemned because they reject the gift of God which is eternal life in His presence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And just what is "sound doctrine" based on?

Oh right, good theology! Another person who does not understand what theology means. Shocking!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,503
2,329
113
#68
This is not theology, but doctrinal preferences. If it has been presented to you as theology, whoever did it is clueless about theology.

Theology, in Greek, θεολογία, which is theos and logia. Translated theos = God and logia = study.

So, theology means, the "study of God." I would think we all need to aspire to that. While an unbeliever may have no understanding of who God really is, the Holy Spirit will always lead a believer to know God more and more. The Bible is the best source of that information.

In the interests of full disclosure, I am working on a PhD in theology, although I may have to stop because my health is so bad. One thing you always do is read theologians from every denomination, including the RCC. They may be wrong on many things, but have a glimmer of truth, not previously said, and hence, more learning about who God is, or any of the other topics of theology. Of course, our job is to correctly divide the truth of God, and not be taken in by new or fancy ideas which are not based on the Bible. Some people, I admit, get trapped, and lose sight of the goal of being able to share the truth of who God is, whether while preaching Christ and the gospel, or in denominational decrees.

My pastor believes in Open Theology, a terrible heresy. He doesn't preach it, but I believe he has an anemic view of the sovereignty of God, which comes through in his preaching. I wish I had thought to ask a question like that when he was being vetted. He doesn't advertise it, but he did tell me. I'm still praying about what to do. I do not want to leave my church, but not ready for a confrontation, yet! Maybe a debate?? Not ready for that, either. Sigh!
Precious sister.

Thanks for your post.
It's time for bed for me.
I will look tomorrow fully at the post.

I have read it but being tired (long night last night, took my daughter at 2 a:m to catch a flight to Rwanda)

The one thing that stuck out for me is your health issues.

Jesus I thank you for our precious sister Angela.

Thank you that even though she has these issues and still seeks you, seeks the truth

I pray your blessings upon her, your peace, your strength.

We lift her up to you in Jesus name.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,503
2,329
113
#69
Why the red X?
Angela
 

Yuccaman

New member
Jul 10, 2019
12
15
3
North Alabama
#70
It becomes theology when people intellectualize it instead of live it., and I see it all over the place. A rule of thumb I have ( my personal convictions alone ) is that I will not sit under the preached word of someone who isn't sharing Christ in their personal life with regularity.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,530
11,669
113
#71
When you witness,give them Jesus.
Not doctrine from knowledge.
Mental files sound to their ears like being told "you are defective,I am not"
The more you talk, the more obvious it becomes that you do not know what you are talking about....and this applies to almost , if not all subjects you address....

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise

Why don't you enlighten all of us by the above "wisdom" of yours and jive it with what PETER and company PREACHED.....

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

For those reading.....do not buy the drivel that the gospel is not to be proclaimed from a standpoint of wisdom and or knowledge gained.....and there is a prescribed ROUTE one must receive, believe and embrace to be born from above......
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,063
822
113
#72
The gospel

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
That is not the call but it reveals which ones were given the faith of God so they could believe. Previously having no faith (None not little) by which they could beleive. as always he must do the first work. It is identifying the many that the father gave to the Son in the following verse.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God


Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Jesus came to die for us that through belief and confession we are reconciled to God through faith.
Not a faith of ones self we have none. Again if he does not first repent and in his mercy turn us toward him. . . hearing his word, no man can repent and confess. Faith is the gift by which we can believe God. Jesus said in John 6 . It is the work of God that we can believe . No work of God working in us..... no belief , as faith of God

That's why we can call on the name of the Lord.

Not us calling Him but Him calling us. He knew where we were By the gospel knowledge of the good news we can call on the lord. without it we can do nothing.


Do we preach it or walk in it or both?

For me in a sense we can preach it by walking in it.
Walking in his knowledge is preaching it. Go out into the word with the gospel .Warn those of men who say we need a man seen to teach us .Even the Son of man would not stand in the Holy unseen place of God as the one source of Christian faith as it is written

Just like Jesus did.
Words are not necessary but actions are.
Jesus loved the broken hearted, the marginalised.
Never rejected them and loved them where they were at.

Did Jesus endorse the theology of his time on earth or come against it?

He came against it.

The theology ruined the gospel.
Yes, Jesus was kind hearted. Words are necessary to describe actions. Jesus, clearly endorsed the theology of his time on earth. He ate the food of the gospel doing the will of the father as it is written .(it representing the gospel) He outwardly set the example and lovingly commands us in 2 Peter to study to show our selves approved unto him. . . . His endorsement

Theology can lead to religion, the very religion Jesus came against.
The one that puts a millstone round the neck.
False theology can lead to false religion. Not the kind of the very religious Jesus . . . true religion.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,663
1,678
113
#73
Why the red X?
Angela
I thought it meant "disagree?" That is what it says. It is not dislike, nor angry, but just that the theology wasn't in agreement with mine. Please don't be offended. Sorry if I did it, I was just trying to use the icons we have.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,298
416
83
#74
I thought it meant "disagree?" That is what it says. It is not dislike, nor angry, but just that the theology wasn't in agreement with mine. Please don't be offended. Sorry if I did it, I was just trying to use the icons we have.
I started to use it a few times based on that but then just didn't know which one to click,lol,,,,the post where I almost agree with everything but then not one part makes me wish we had an almost equal to icon.
 
Nov 24, 2012
27,462
1,762
113
#75
I started to use it a few times based on that but then just didn't know which one to click,lol,,,,the post where I almost agree with everything but then not one part makes me wish we had an almost equal to icon.
There is always the (half way) straight face
LOL.
 
May 17, 2013
13,111
1,527
113
#79
And just what is "sound doctrine" based on?

Oh right, good theology! Another person who does not understand what theology means. Shocking!
There is a lot of over cooked theology available to those who would rather study about God than know God. Do we see the apostles and disciples as theologians? We do see them as saints of God evangelizing the world. They the apostles and disciples had sound doctrine without all the theology.

I'm not against theologians if they know Jesus as Savior in fact we need them in the body of Christ. The problem is that they can see things and add complications to the basic essence of what men need to know to become saved.

Sound doctrine comes from the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,503
2,329
113
#80
I thought it meant "disagree?" That is what it says. It is not dislike, nor angry, but just that the theology wasn't in agreement with mine. Please don't be offended. Sorry if I did it, I was just trying to use the icons we have.
Not offended at all.
I think I know you well enough.
There is angry emoji. :mad:
And a dislike emoji. (n)

Just wanted to know why the red X.
Nothing wrong with disagreeing but I think for me it would be good to know why.
Then I can digest the differences.
And you never know, you might be able to teach this old dog new tricks.

Mind you there is also :poop: emoji

Been accused a few time of speaking said emoji above:cool:

All is well.