Grace alone or grace plus works?

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Is salvation by Grace alone?

  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    Votes: 41 87.2%
  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    Votes: 6 12.8%

  • Total voters
    47

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#21
Remember, when you have faith, and you are saved, your going to exhibit the works of Christ, they will be made manifest in you by the Holy Spirit, our Comforter. If one is not showing the works, that can mean one of two things ; Either that person wasn't truly saved to start, OR that person is out of fellowship with God, either way, that's a dangerous place to be.
Ok I think I am following you here . What would you call a good work and would a good work just be a change in our character? That can be seen by others . I believe folks have different definitions of the word work . That can lead to all sorts of misunderstandings .
Blessings
Bill
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#22
Is this competition for the Not By Works thread... or is it a replacement, since the Not By Works thread has gone so far off the rails that it is no longer even on the right continent?
No,It might have vibrated my mind to think about what I decided to post though,GOD knows,you will find In time that the same subjects for discussion come up over and over,just with different titles but same subject,good thing that discussing the Bible for many here Is Insatiable.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#23
To answer the question - I think it's the wrong question, and therefore not answerable. One is saved by grace. After being saved, grace manifests works.

So if one claims to be saved, but no works show up, is one saved? Maybe, maybe not. That's between the person and God. But the person who was saved and does not manifest any works sure is lazy. :p
Would you agree that GOD looks at the heart but man looks at the outward appearances.
Does GOD need to see physical works,does man need to see physical works?

For GOD so loved the world that he gave HIS only begotten SON that whosoever believes In Him would not perish but have eternal life.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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#24
I vote by grace we are saved, it is a gift of God; a gift cannot be merited otherwise it is not a gift. God will bring each true believer to maturity and the full stature of our Saviour Jesus Christ through sanctification and our pursuit of holiness which is a work of the Holy Spirit not you.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"; Ephesians2:8

"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2Cor1:21,22
 
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Dec 9, 2011
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#25
Try to type in "faith alone" on a bible software and see what comes up.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.




Faith alone debunked by one verse. Thats cold!
GOD looks at the heart.

Man looks at the outward appearances.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#26
To answer the question - I think it's the wrong question, and therefore not answerable. One is saved by grace. After being saved, grace manifests works.

So if one claims to be saved, but no works show up, is one saved? Maybe, maybe not. That's between the person and God. But the person who was saved and does not manifest any works sure is lazy. :p
and now you have entered the realm of the not by works thread. Would you like to take back your words about derailment?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#27
Remember, when you have faith, and you are saved, your going to exhibit the works of Christ, they will be made manifest in you by the Holy Spirit, our Comforter. If one is not showing the works, that can mean one of two things ; Either that person wasn't truly saved to start, OR that person is out of fellowship with God, either way, that's a dangerous place to be.
So you believe that salvation Is by Grace alone through faith alone?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#28
To my knowledge Martin said: faith that save is never alone,

when you save you are like a branch that Will produce a fruit/work. But work is not save you, work is product of faith.

can you produce a work/pure loving work?

Jesus say No, branch can not bear fruit of itself, vine produce fruit.

so yes faith that save Will manifest in a good work, but good work not save you, faith is



[h=1]“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves ​is never alone”[/h]
Martin Luther

tags: christianity, faith, inspirational, religion
But when It comes to salvation by GOD that only belief In GOD’s WORD Is needed would you say that salvation Is by Grace through faith ALONE?
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#29
Not wanting to be a stickler here ,but how is it a work? Ok Thinking about it as I post . How do you define a work ? This is probably my problem in understanding you .
Blessings
Bill
To the trust only groups everything is a work. They see works under every stumbling block they trip over.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#30
Try to type in "faith alone" on a bible software and see what comes up.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.




Faith alone debunked by one verse. Thats cold!
Anyone reading the vast writing of Martin Luther will see the clear and undeniable teaching of faith alone salvation. The problem is this idea is not in the Bible. Martin Luther is like many other theologians, when at a doctrinal dead end just add a word or two.

If the new message is appealing enough people will buy it.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#31
Anyone reading the vast writing of Martin Luther will see the clear and undeniable teaching of faith alone salvation. The problem is this idea is not in the Bible. Martin Luther is like many other theologians, when at a doctrinal dead end just add a word or two.

If the new message is appealing enough people will buy it.
John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
There Is nothing there about works.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#32
Romans 4:1-2
King James Version(KJV)


1.)What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#33
We are saved to do good works. Clearly salvation precedes works.

For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do
good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#34
Try to type in "faith alone" on a bible software and see what comes up.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Romans constantly brings up that it is by faith alone that we are justified before GOD. But James is talking about justification BEFORE MEN





reinstated. that's hot[/QUOTE]
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#35
To the trust only groups everything is a work. They see works under every stumbling block they trip over.
another one who tries to rewrite scripture to his own advantage..

1Pe 2:6 This is why it says in Scripture: "Look! I am laying a chosen, precious cornerstone in Zion. The one who believes in him will never be ashamed."

1Pe 2:7 Therefore he is precious to you who believe, but to those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,

1Pe 2:8 a stone they stumble over and a rock they trip on." They keep on stumbling because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

because they do not believe. Disobedience is unbelief. Works are those of the Spirit, not of self, or the natural man. The result of faith.




 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#36
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14-26, “14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him. 15, "And if a brother or sister is naked and in need of daily food, 16, "but one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” but you do not give them the bodily needs, what use is it? 17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead. 18, "But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works. 19, "You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! 20, "But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead? 21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the slaughter-place? 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? 23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah. 24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone. 25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 3:36, “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Yah remains on him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]does not obeyis word #544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]G544 ἀπειθέω apeitheo (a-pei-the'-ō) v., 1. to disbelieve (willfully and perversely)., 2. (by direct extension) to be willfully disobedient., [from G545], KJV: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving , Root(s): G545 [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
[/FONT]
 
Jan 21, 2017
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#37
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul writing to the Ephesians does not conflict with nor contradict James.

James states that if is a lifeless faith that produces no works for Christ. Jesus said we are branches that bear the fruit which the vine produces in us. If we have no fruit do we have a connection to the vine? Fruit declared in Gal 5:22-23.

To make works necessary to bring grace to fruition is to frustrate grace. Mercy stands by the power and determinate will of the Father.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is such a mindgame.

"We are saved by faith alone, but faith that justifies is never alone".

Is the result the same? Yes. Works are necessary no matter how you put it.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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#38
If I plant an avocado seed and then three years later the tree bears much fruit, who caused the tree to bear fruit, God did of course. God produces maturity in the believer; some plant, some water, it is God who causes the growth.

"So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow." 1Cor3:7





 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#39
This is such a mindgame.

"We are saved by faith alone, but faith that justifies is never alone".

Is the result the same? Yes. Works are necessary no matter how you put it.
They are NOT necessary. The dying thief had no works. Working is not a 'necessity' but a fruit. They are the result of Christ's salvation not a part.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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#40
They are NOT necessary. The dying thief had no works. Working is not a 'necessity' but a fruit. They are the result of Christ's salvation not a part.
What does, "The dying thief had no works." mean? What works did he not have and how do you know he did not have them?