Grace alone or grace plus works?

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Is salvation by Grace alone?

  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    Votes: 41 87.2%
  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    Votes: 6 12.8%

  • Total voters
    47

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#41
If I plant an avocado seed and then three years later the tree bears much fruit, who caused the tree to bear fruit, God did of course. God produces maturity in the believer; some plant, some water, it is God who causes the growth.

"So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow." 1Cor3:7





Will the Avocado tree grow if the farmer only has faith that he planted the seed or will he have to actually plant the seed?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,890
634
113
#42
This is such a mindgame.

"We are saved by faith alone, but faith that justifies is never alone".

Is the result the same? Yes. Works are necessary no matter how you put it.
Why is it that you cannot trust the word of God?

You can do nothing to add to what Christ has completely fulfilled.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,351
165
63
52
#43
What does, "The dying thief had no works." mean? What works did he not have and how do you know he did not have them?
Well he the thief had very little time to do the works . He was on the cross mocking as well before he proclaimed Jesus was the Messiah.
Blessings
Bill
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
746
53
28
#44
Which thief are you referring to? Because there were two thieves crucified with Jesus, one humbled himself and asked Jesus to forgive him and to remember him. The other blasphemed and mocked Christ, and even challenged Christ. I think it was one last trick Satan was trying to pull to get Christ to fall, but it still failed. One was saved, and the other mocked Christ. It's a very powerful testament to what humility and forgiveness can do for someone.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,351
165
63
52
#45
Which thief are you referring to? Because there were two thieves crucified with Jesus, one humbled himself and asked Jesus to forgive him and to remember him. The other blasphemed and mocked Christ, and even challenged Christ. I think it was one last trick Satan was trying to pull to get Christ to fall, but it still failed. One was saved, and the other mocked Christ. It's a very powerful testament to what humility and forgiveness can do for someone.
You look at Mathew
Mathew 27:44“And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way.”
it is both . Then on to Luke
Luke 23:39“One of the criminals who were hanged i railed at him, saying, “Are you not j the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me k when you come into your kingdom.” 43And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in l Paradise.”
You see it was a conversation on the cross . That’s what I see happening.
Blessings
Bill
 
Jan 21, 2017
647
28
0
#46
Is not sinning a work? Isnt that the opposite of work? Its probably works isnt it. And we all know salvations not of works.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
746
53
28
#47
You look at Mathew
Mathew 27:44“And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way.”
it is both . Then on to Luke
Luke 23:39“One of the criminals who were hanged i railed at him, saying, “Are you not j the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me k when you come into your kingdom.” 43And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in l Paradise.”
You see it was a conversation on the cross . That’s what I see happening.
Blessings
Bill
Right, I see that happening, but I also see Satan throwing one last attempt at Christ to get him to fall, and it didn't work. There was a soul saved, and dare I say the other lost. But it's exceptionally powerful
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,010
664
113
#48
Will the Avocado tree grow if the farmer only has faith that he planted the seed or will he have to actually plant the seed?
God gives each believer a measure of faith, no, the tree will not grow unless the farmer plants the seed, and even a nonbeliever can do this. It is God who causes spiritual growth in His children.

"So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow." 1Cor3:7
 
Dec 9, 2011
10,070
380
83
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#49
we are saved BY GOD. full stop!

for the truly saved, works will follow, because GOD is faithful.

i cannot understand why this is so hard to grasp. lol
So then you would agree that we are saved by GOD and you voted yes to we are saved by Grace through faith alone?
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
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#50
Not wanting to be a stickler here ,but how is it a work? Ok Thinking about it as I post . How do you define a work ? This is probably my problem in understanding you .
Blessings
Bill
I define work as something over 50% of my family tree avoids at all costs.

#whoneedsajob?
#Igetgovernmentassistence
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#51
God gives each believer a measure of faith, no, the tree will not grow unless the farmer plants the seed, and even a nonbeliever can do this. It is God who causes spiritual growth in His children.

"So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow." 1Cor3:7
Thank you for your straight forward response. It was the answer I was hoping for.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#53
Well he the thief had very little time to do the works . He was on the cross mocking as well before he proclaimed Jesus was the Messiah.
Blessings
Bill
Again, what works are you talking about?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,472
115
63
#54
But when It comes to salvation by GOD that only belief In GOD’s WORD Is needed would you say that salvation Is by Grace through faith ALONE?
yes believe in God word mean faith, so that the only we need for salvation
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,351
165
63
52
#55
Ok I see a point here not conceding the debate or idea that we must have works . The thief did have one work though.He did proclaim Jesus to be his king .
Still there is much to discuss on the issue.
Blessings
Bill
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#56
Works is the evidence of salvation, not the cause of it. Grace is the cause(means) of salvation.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,948
774
113
#57
The OP is talking about "salvation" which consists of three stages.

Justification - God totally touches and changes our lives by his grace through faith.

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Romans 5:1-2

We do not need works at all to be justified. God alone does the "work" of saving us. This is monergism.

"
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Eph. 2:8-9

BUT, Ephesians continues on. And what it tells us, is that the next stage of our salvation, is santification. That means, God continues to work on us through the Holy Spirit, and part of that is doing the works God prepared beforehand.

"
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph. 2:10

Sanctification takes the rest of our lives. It is changing us into the image of Christ. That is the transforming effect of Christ on our hearts and lives.

"
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – his good, pleasing and perfect will." Romans 12:2

"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18


As this verse above says, we are being transformed into his image, with ever-increasing "glory." That's brings us to the final stage of our salvation - glorification.

"
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30

"
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

And, this verse below explains why we are not made perfect when we are justified by God, at the beginning of our journey with him.

"
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12

So, no, we don't do works to be justified, but we do them after we are saved! And no one is going to lose their salvation, because God gives it. And he will chastize us if we are not following him, obeying his commands and doing the works he has given us to do. And since God doesn't make mistakes about who he chooses, we will accomplish what he has set out for us to do. And one day, he will return, and we will see him face to face, and we will be like him! Hallelujah!
 

Crustyone

Senior Member
Mar 15, 2015
604
15
18
#59
I think we have been deceived in a way by the translators of the bible. They keep talking about works being needed for salvation when a better description would have been proofs of faith. Thereby the initial faith and the proofs of faith equal, saved by faith.