Grace alone or grace plus works?
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Re: Grace alone or grace plus works?
Originally Posted by mailmandan
What do you believe it means to "keep" His commands? Sinless, perfect obedience to ALL of His commands, 100% of the time? The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means:
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.
So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I'm sure these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 thought they obeyed Him.
I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics and Mormons, just to name a couple. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commands and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
What do you believe it means to "keep" His commands? Sinless, perfect obedience to ALL of His commands, 100% of the time? The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means:
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.
So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I'm sure these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 thought they obeyed Him.
I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics and Mormons, just to name a couple. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commands and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Grace is not cheap it is FREE
I am glad that you admit that they are still believers, even if backslidden for a time.
But true believing IS obeying,
It is God's answer
But it IS all encompassing definitive and absolute in context. You simply misrepresent us.
No I do not associate with you.
The true form of televanglism. Praise God. We are saved by faith alone,
Then why are you citing them??? Out to cause mischief?
Amen! 
Amen! Those who have been saved through faith in Christ are the just and they live by faith afterwards. The good works/multiple acts of obedience that believers produce are produced by or "out of" faith.
No. Paul is saying that the Gospel IS the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and not the entire Old Testament. According to that logic, it would be "good news" that God barred man from the Tree of Life and consigned him then to death (Genesis 3:22-24) which is in the Old Testament. Mormons add the book of Mormon to the Bible and call it the "fullness of the Gospel" but it's really a "different" gospel.
Maybe so, but the entire Old Testament is not the Gospel.
The law and the prophets is the law and the prophets and the Gospel is the Gospel.
How does that change the fact that the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so they were still in their sins and their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain attempt to obtain salvation by works. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were goats, not sheep.
Where does Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that the Gospel is the entire Old Testament? I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is what I am trusting in. What are you trusting in?
I do not reject the Gospel. Ephesians 3:1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Is your Gospel of law or grace? Old Covenant or New Covenant?
Amen! Those who have been saved through faith in Christ are the just and they live by faith afterwards. The good works/multiple acts of obedience that believers produce are produced by or "out of" faith.
No. Paul is saying that the Gospel IS the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and not the entire Old Testament. According to that logic, it would be "good news" that God barred man from the Tree of Life and consigned him then to death (Genesis 3:22-24) which is in the Old Testament. Mormons add the book of Mormon to the Bible and call it the "fullness of the Gospel" but it's really a "different" gospel.
Maybe so, but the entire Old Testament is not the Gospel.
The law and the prophets is the law and the prophets and the Gospel is the Gospel.
How does that change the fact that the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so they were still in their sins and their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain attempt to obtain salvation by works. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were goats, not sheep.
Where does Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that the Gospel is the entire Old Testament? I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is what I am trusting in. What are you trusting in?
I do not reject the Gospel. Ephesians 3:1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Is your Gospel of law or grace? Old Covenant or New Covenant?
P
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
The word of God.
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
The word of God.
WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?
The death, burial and resurrection of Christ is a very important part of the Gospel but does is that all there is to the Gospel?
Lets look at God's Word...................................
The Gospel means; G2098 εὐαγγέλιον euaggelion (ev-an-ğe'-liy-on) n. a good message; Good news).
Ok I think most know that the word Gospel means good news or a good message. So if you only believe that the Gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Christ, how do you harmonize the following scriptures.........................
After Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist............
Mark 1
15, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.
Wait a minuet? Jesus is ONLY JUST STARTING HIS MINISTRY and has NOT DIED, has not been buried and if he has not died and not been buried he certainly has not been resurrected. Yet here we have Jesus BEGINNING his MINISTRY and preaching the GOSPEL
and again..................
Mark 8
35, For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but WHOSOEVER SHALL LOSE HIS LIFE FOR MY SAKE AND THE GOSPELS, THE SAME SHALL SAVE IT.
Well here we have it again the Gospel is being preached BEFORE the death of Jesus and again.....................
Matthew 4
23, And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Seems like Matthew and Mark both agree that Jesus is preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom before the death of Jesus...
Matthew 9
35, And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Yep Jesus still going about everywhere preaching the Gospel. His whole Ministry BEFORE His DEATH was preaching the GOSPEL..
Matthew 11
4, Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5, The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and THE POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.
and again..............
Matthew 24
14, And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM SHALL BE PREACHED IN ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Yep Jesus is still preaching the Gospel before His Death and Resurrection. Mathew and Mark both agree.....
Luke talks about Jesus in the Synagogue.....
Luke 4
17, And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because HE HAS ANNOTATED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Well it seems like Isaiah from the OLD TESTAMENT knew about the Gospel so the Gospel indeed was being preached BEFORE the DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS.......
Luke 7
22, Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED.
Yep Matthew, Mark and Luke all agree the Gospel was being preached BEFORE the DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS.......
Luke 20
1, And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and PREACHED THE GOSPEL, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,
Yep there goes Jesus again teaching the people in the temple and preaching the GOSPEL before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.....
So ok lets bring it all together............
The Good New (Gospel) is JESUS and Jesus is the WORD OF GOD. It is the WORD OF GOD THAT IS THE GOSPEL that we are to BELIEVE IN AND LIVE BY. (Matt 4:4; John 1-1-4; John 3:16). Why do you say it is a "works based doctrine" when we have to BELIEVE EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD? It is by GRACE that we are SAVED <HOW?> THROUGH FAITH and NOT of your selves it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS LEST ANY MAN should boast.
Now if you do not know what the GOSPEL is how can you preach it to others? Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the MOUTH of GOD.
Now was God's LAW (10 commandments) the work of God and come OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD......................
Exodus 32
16, And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
Ecclesiastes 3
14, I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOES, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God does it, that men should fear before him.
Did God make the ten commandments then His Word says they are FOREVER.......................
Exodus 31
18, And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD.
Did God speak the 10 commandments to His people personally? Well YES he did so they are FOREVER......................
Exodus 20
1, And GOD SPOKE ALL THESE WORDS, SAYING,
2, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.1
3, Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5, Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7, Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12, Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13, Thou shalt not kill.
14, Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15, Thou shalt not steal.
16, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
18, And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19, And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
If God's Word is the ten commandments as shown above, The scriptures tell us that God's Word is FOREVER.........
Isaiah 40
8, The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but THE WORD OF OUR GOD SHALL STAND FOREVER.
1 Peter 1
25,But THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Psalms 119
89, YOUR WORK O LORD IS ETERNAL; it stands firm in the heavens.
[SUB]Matthew 24
35, Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS WILL NOT PASS AWAY.
[/SUB]
The 10 commandments are God's Word therefore are FOREVER...............................
Does God change?
Numbers 23
19 God is not human, that he should lie, NOT A HUMAN BEING THAT HE SHOULD CHANGE HIS MIND. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Hebrews 13
8, Jesus Christ is THE SAME yesterday and today and FOREVER
Malachi 3
6, I THE LORD DO NOT CHANGE. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed
Summary; God does NOT CHANGE his WORD is the Ten Commandments so they are FOREVER. The 10 commandments are the WORK OF GOD so they are FOREVER.
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)
There is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now COMMANDED to keep Sunday as a HOLY day..................
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
Amen!
Amen! Those who have been saved through faith in Christ are the just and they live by faith afterwards. The good works/multiple acts of obedience that believers produce are produced by or "out of" faith.
No. Paul is saying that the Gospel IS the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and not the entire Old Testament. According to that logic, it would be "good news" that God barred man from the Tree of Life and consigned him then to death (Genesis 3:22-24) which is in the Old Testament. Mormons add the book of Mormon to the Bible and call it the "fullness of the Gospel" but it's really a "different" gospel.
Maybe so, but the entire Old Testament is not the Gospel.
The law and the prophets is the law and the prophets and the Gospel is the Gospel.
How does that change the fact that the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so they were still in their sins and their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain attempt to obtain salvation by works. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were goats, not sheep.
Where does Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that the Gospel is the entire Old Testament? I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is what I am trusting in. What are you trusting in?
I do not reject the Gospel. Ephesians 3:1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Is your Gospel of law or grace? Old Covenant or New Covenant?
Amen! Those who have been saved through faith in Christ are the just and they live by faith afterwards. The good works/multiple acts of obedience that believers produce are produced by or "out of" faith.
No. Paul is saying that the Gospel IS the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and not the entire Old Testament. According to that logic, it would be "good news" that God barred man from the Tree of Life and consigned him then to death (Genesis 3:22-24) which is in the Old Testament. Mormons add the book of Mormon to the Bible and call it the "fullness of the Gospel" but it's really a "different" gospel.
Maybe so, but the entire Old Testament is not the Gospel.
The law and the prophets is the law and the prophets and the Gospel is the Gospel.
How does that change the fact that the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so they were still in their sins and their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain attempt to obtain salvation by works. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were goats, not sheep.
Where does Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that the Gospel is the entire Old Testament? I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is what I am trusting in. What are you trusting in?
I do not reject the Gospel. Ephesians 3:1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Is your Gospel of law or grace? Old Covenant or New Covenant?
So lets look at the Scripture you spoke about.
1 Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
What scriptures are these? The Gospel of Christ that Paul called the Old Testament.
Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Do you think Paul just picked which scripture he could use to support his teaching and ignore the rest as is the custom of many? Not if you believe him.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
According to these scriptures that both Jesus and Paul taught from, Grace and Mercy were taught by Moses. It's just that the mainstream preachers of His time didn't teach this truth. A similar problem with the mainstream preachers of today. As Jesus said:
Matt. 24:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
These same scriptures Paul calls the Gospel of Christ has this to say of the New Covenant.
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
So before this new covenant, it was necessary to go to the scribes to hear God's Laws. But He says here he will intervene directly. As Heb. says.
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
So now we "Receive the Law" directly from Jesus. Is there any mention of different laws, or the removal of God's Laws. Or EVEN a HINT of any revision of God's Laws.
As you can see, no.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The covenant before this required bringing animals to the Levite who performed "Works of the Law" for removal of sins. But here we are told that there will come a time when Jesus will intervene Himself to forgive or cleanse our sins. No more Levites, no more Levitical "works of the Law" for remission of sins. A new covenant.
But once again, is there even one single HINT that Jesus would change the definition of sin? Or that God's Laws are a burden, or that he would nail His Commandments to a cross? No, not even one mention of the doctrines that the mainstream preachers of today preach to the world.
So given what the Gospel of Christ says about the New Covenant I am sure we are in the New Covenant. It's just, as Jesus and many others in the Bible prophesied, there is a great religion that preaches falsehoods about the Gospel. I don't know any other reason for your preaching regarding your version of the New Covenant.
The New covenant has to do with how God's Commandments (HIS LOVE) are administered, and how transgression of these Commandments are justified.
Old Covenant: We went to a Levite to hear about God with a sacrifice, and the Levites read the Law and performed sacrificial, ceremonial "Works of this Law" for the remission of sins.
New Covenant: We can go directly to God through Jesus, we all have God's Word and therefore we need not go to a priest or Levite to hear him. And the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" have been replaced by a new and better "Priesthood" where Jesus offered His own Blood on the Alter once and for all.
There is no indication from anyone in the Bible that the definition of sins has changed, or that the requirement to be obedient to God has changed. Today's mainstream preachers teach the Law is gone, but the Gospel of Christ teaches just the opposite.
So I'm with Moses as to the Law of faith and Mercy that Abraham followed, but I also know the "Law of works" which was ADDED 430 years later has been fulfilled by Jesus and we are in the New Covenant as the Gospel of Christ preaches.
Very sad really.
Those who tend to question are not really questioning but believing the garbage they have been taught.
side note here and it's not to condemn, but everyone should test what they have been taught and seek the Bible for truth and not just believe what they have been told, to be Bereans. There is an awful lot of trash being taught today. I fell foul myself here.
It was only when I decided one day when I asked myself "What is it I believe and why" that I went down this path.
Boy this was a hard process and it messed with my mind, because my mind was so messed up with what I believe based on what I was told. That all had to be undone. Faulty finishing foundations uprooted and new ones laid.
So I encourage all to do the same. Yes it's hard. We have a saying over here "Its better the devil you know than the one you don't". No it's not, that is a lie.
Allow God to replace lies with his truth.
Anyway back to your post.
What did Jesus say on the cross?
He said "It is finished" then he gave up his last breath. And the temple curtain was torn in two.
He didn't say "It's almost finished but before I give up my last breath I tell you that there is a lot more to be done and done by you to give you assurance. Do you remember when I said that the only work of God is that you believe in the one whom he sent? Well actually that's not true because you have to add to that. Also when I said I would give you the HS as a helper well that's not true either because you won't need him. Your more than capable of doing it yourself. And when you have done that then I will t tear the temple curtain in two for you, in fact you can sit on my judgement seat, good luck kids now get on with it, PS before I give up my last breath just so you know
Romans 10:9-119 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame" Thats not true either.
Brothers and sisters, when Jesus said it is finished, it was finished
If it wasn't then he died in vain.
We may as well give up because we will never meet the the requirements of salvation under the new covenant.
God is not the God of the body cokey dance. In out, in out that that's what's it all about.
No we are either in or out.
It is finished with a full stop.
We have the Holy Spirit in us to give us assurance but to also help us to be conformed of the one who said "It is finished"
Those who tend to question are not really questioning but believing the garbage they have been taught.
side note here and it's not to condemn, but everyone should test what they have been taught and seek the Bible for truth and not just believe what they have been told, to be Bereans. There is an awful lot of trash being taught today. I fell foul myself here.
It was only when I decided one day when I asked myself "What is it I believe and why" that I went down this path.
Boy this was a hard process and it messed with my mind, because my mind was so messed up with what I believe based on what I was told. That all had to be undone. Faulty finishing foundations uprooted and new ones laid.
So I encourage all to do the same. Yes it's hard. We have a saying over here "Its better the devil you know than the one you don't". No it's not, that is a lie.
Allow God to replace lies with his truth.
Anyway back to your post.
What did Jesus say on the cross?
He said "It is finished" then he gave up his last breath. And the temple curtain was torn in two.
He didn't say "It's almost finished but before I give up my last breath I tell you that there is a lot more to be done and done by you to give you assurance. Do you remember when I said that the only work of God is that you believe in the one whom he sent? Well actually that's not true because you have to add to that. Also when I said I would give you the HS as a helper well that's not true either because you won't need him. Your more than capable of doing it yourself. And when you have done that then I will t tear the temple curtain in two for you, in fact you can sit on my judgement seat, good luck kids now get on with it, PS before I give up my last breath just so you know
Romans 10:9-119 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame" Thats not true either.
Brothers and sisters, when Jesus said it is finished, it was finished
If it wasn't then he died in vain.
We may as well give up because we will never meet the the requirements of salvation under the new covenant.
God is not the God of the body cokey dance. In out, in out that that's what's it all about.
No we are either in or out.
It is finished with a full stop.
We have the Holy Spirit in us to give us assurance but to also help us to be conformed of the one who said "It is finished"
Hello Grandpa
So you do not agree with the post and the scriptures in them? So please tell me what is not correct? If you cannot then it does not make the scriptures go away but simply says you have closed your eyes and do not BELIEVE God's Word.
The whole point of the post is this...............
You cannot cherry pick scripture to suit your interpretation of them. The GOSPEL IS ALL THE WORD OF GOD we are commanded to LIVE BY BECAUSE JESUS IS THE WORD and we are to LIVE by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
If one DOES NOT BELIEVE God's Word they have become an UNBELIEVER and UNBELIEVERS will NOT ENTER into GOD'S KINGDOM and the WORD REJECTED will judge all in the last days (Hebrews 10:26-27; John 12:47-48)
The scriptures are fulfilled in those that do NOT BELIEVE God's WORD and repeated by Jesus and Paul.............
Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
So you do not agree with the post and the scriptures in them? So please tell me what is not correct? If you cannot then it does not make the scriptures go away but simply says you have closed your eyes and do not BELIEVE God's Word.
The whole point of the post is this...............
You cannot cherry pick scripture to suit your interpretation of them. The GOSPEL IS ALL THE WORD OF GOD we are commanded to LIVE BY BECAUSE JESUS IS THE WORD and we are to LIVE by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
If one DOES NOT BELIEVE God's Word they have become an UNBELIEVER and UNBELIEVERS will NOT ENTER into GOD'S KINGDOM and the WORD REJECTED will judge all in the last days (Hebrews 10:26-27; John 12:47-48)
The scriptures are fulfilled in those that do NOT BELIEVE God's WORD and repeated by Jesus and Paul.............
Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
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When it comes to trust only regeneration theology there is no table pound on because it has no leg to stand on.
Your post in a deflection, I made no remarks concerning his character.
He is doing nothing more then taking general statements and labeling they are definitive. Something he would never do on any other subject. A defense as absurd as a student demanding a passing grade because his teacher said all who study hard for the quiz will do well.
Your post in a deflection, I made no remarks concerning his character.
He is doing nothing more then taking general statements and labeling they are definitive. Something he would never do on any other subject. A defense as absurd as a student demanding a passing grade because his teacher said all who study hard for the quiz will do well.
You can deny the obvious all you want but it does not change the fact that he is simply labeling general statements as absolute, definitive and all encompassing. Anyone looking at the diction of his verses can see they are not written in the definitive.
It is you who does not understand simple English diction.
It is you who does not understand simple English diction.
This is just sad for you.
Its ok that you don't understand the gospel.
But you shouldn't curse yourself on top of it.
You could always pray. That's what I did/do.
You read the scriptures, but you don't understand them. You've even been told what they mean and you still don't believe. And you don't understand that the very scriptures you post apply to you.
I should probably take the Lords advice on this. But I was so hoping that some of the legalists and judaizers would be converted based on something I explained about the Lord Jesus Christ....
Its ok that you don't understand the gospel.
But you shouldn't curse yourself on top of it.
You could always pray. That's what I did/do.
You read the scriptures, but you don't understand them. You've even been told what they mean and you still don't believe. And you don't understand that the very scriptures you post apply to you.
I should probably take the Lords advice on this. But I was so hoping that some of the legalists and judaizers would be converted based on something I explained about the Lord Jesus Christ....