Grappling With Why God Allows Evil To Continue
- Thread starter Stunnedbygrace
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aaah...so with rep points of 0-100, you give out one point, with 100-200 you give out 2, and so on. Now I understand. And you would give...7? And then if someone gives you a negative rep, it deducts the amount?
I occasionally run across someone who makes very good posts but doesn't have much rep power...but mostly, I don'tremember to pay attention to the points thing. Too busy talking!
I occasionally run across someone who makes very good posts but doesn't have much rep power...but mostly, I don'tremember to pay attention to the points thing. Too busy talking!
Reputation power accumulates over time depending on how much you post (one when you reach fifty posts, and one per every thousandth post you make); how long you are here (one given every anniversary of your joining); and one added every time your reputation points total hits a new hundred mark, which you can see on the Settings page. When you give a rep to someone, their reputation points total increases by your reputation power, and vice versa. I did not pay much attention to it for a long time either, but people were always asking about it, and I like helping when I can. I remember the first time a gave a rep to someone and they went up two points; I was baffled haha. I had no idea why that happened I thought someone else must have given a rep at the same time as me
I hope that helps
I thought someone else must have given a rep at the same time as me I hope that helps
Huh???? How is comparing myself (as a parent) to that of God as a parent? Yep, God takes care of me: Look at the birds of the air, they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
And look God even compares himself to earthly parents - If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
Yes, God has given us many means which enable us to stand and fight our adversary. I take responsibility for my actions.
Third paragraph. Not sure the verse about God causing rain to fall on the both the just and the unjust can be equated to evil...I think the context of the verse is that He blesses both men with rain for their crops.
I think the "permission" thing is necessary because satan is way more powerful than us. As we were all discussing earlier, I suspect regarding Josephs brothers, that if it isn't a direct attack from satan personally but is rather men influenced by satan, permission isn't needed. But I'm just guessing there. Makes sense to me anyway.
But I think satan with carte blanche and no limits or need to ask permission would be just a slaughter because he is so much more powerful than us. And he'd slaughter us before we even learned what our armor WAS!
I think the "permission" thing is necessary because satan is way more powerful than us. As we were all discussing earlier, I suspect regarding Josephs brothers, that if it isn't a direct attack from satan personally but is rather men influenced by satan, permission isn't needed. But I'm just guessing there. Makes sense to me anyway.
But I think satan with carte blanche and no limits or need to ask permission would be just a slaughter because he is so much more powerful than us. And he'd slaughter us before we even learned what our armor WAS!
Last paragraph. Yes, but satan influencing men and stirring them to jealousy to sell someone into slavery is different than a direct satanic hit of a whirlwind collapsing houses, isn't it? Even if satan influences men to do some pretty vile things, he can't give them the power to control the weather. Just my thoughts on it. Some of it is guessing and speculation.
An interesting thing (at least to me) is the fact that Scripture says fear of death is the cause of sin, and Satan possesses the power of death. In regard to the first part, with fear of death being the cause of sin, it strikes me that Adam and Eve could have chosen to eat from the Tree of Life before their act of disobedience, but instead, for fear of dying(?), as well as being driven by the pride of life and lust of the eyes etc, chose to eat of the tree that promised death, because Satan lied to them. The really sad thing is that people still tell that same lie
Satan is hindered because of prayers, Satan is hindered when we apply God's armor . . . Satan is hindered as we humble ourselves to God and resist him, etc.
Both hits are from Satan whether directly or indirectly. I don't think there is a difference in a direct hit or a hit from people influenced by him - a hit is a hit.
Both hits are from Satan whether directly or indirectly. I don't think there is a difference in a direct hit or a hit from people influenced by him - a hit is a hit.
Just wanted to fix the last post:
It used as a correlation because I don't think that this is talking about crops: But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Matt. 5:45 I guess it could be talking about crops - but I think it is in relation to praying for our enemies because good and bad happen to both . . .
Satan is hindered because of prayers, Satan is hindered when we apply God's armor . . . Satan is hindered as we humble ourselves to God and resist him, etc.
It used as a correlation because I don't think that this is talking about crops: But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." Matt. 5:45 I guess it could be talking about crops - but I think it is in relation to praying for our enemies because good and bad happen to both . . .
Satan is hindered because of prayers, Satan is hindered when we apply God's armor . . . Satan is hindered as we humble ourselves to God and resist him, etc.
Satan is hindered because of prayers, Satan is hindered when we apply God's armor . . . Satan is hindered as we humble ourselves to God and resist him, etc.
Both hits are from Satan whether directly or indirectly. I don't think there is a difference in a direct hit or a hit from people influenced by him - a hit is a hit.
Both hits are from Satan whether directly or indirectly. I don't think there is a difference in a direct hit or a hit from people influenced by him - a hit is a hit.
It's no biggie if both sets of circumstances look identical to you as pertains to the level of force brought to bear against you, but I do see a difference.
I mostly was trying to help you to maybe not absolutely have to insist on Job as allegory in order to piece it all together in your mind. I was just trying to help you work on it with the option of maybe not having to insist it has to be allegory and is impossible that it could have involved a real live man. I was trying to help your argument, not mine, because I don't have a problem with Job and peter showing that satan has to ask permission before a direct hit and I can see a difference between a direct hit on a human from a supernatural being versus a human heart influenced to sin against a man.
I completely agree with your last paragraph by the way.
An interesting thing (at least to me) is the fact that Scripture says fear of death is the cause of sin, and Satan possesses the power of death. In regard to the first part, with fear of death being the cause of sin, it strikes me that Adam and Eve could have chosen to eat from the Tree of Life before their act of disobedience, but instead, for fear of dying(?), as well as being driven by the pride of life and lust of the eyes etc, chose to eat of the tree that promised death, because Satan lied to them. The really sad thing is that people still tell that same lie
I don't recall reading that? But it does say that "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). I would think that the fear of death would be a deterrent from sin, not the cause. But for sure, disobedience to God leads to death, and God ultimately has the power of life and death; "Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28)
Yah created ALL beings with free will, even the angels (malakim) and satan, satan chose to rebel. Yah has to allow for free will because if all didn;t have it judgment could not be valid, you can;t be held accountable for being forced to do something. So when people use their free will to go against what the Most High says it causes curses, pain, death, etc. Yet Yah is patient willing that all repent and turn to Him...
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 24:12, "And because Lawlessness will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 24:12, "And because Lawlessness will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
An interesting thing (at least to me) is the fact that Scripture says fear of death is the cause of sin, and Satan possesses the power of death. In regard to the first part, with fear of death being the cause of sin, it strikes me that Adam and Eve could have chosen to eat from the Tree of Life before their act of disobedience, but instead, for fear of dying(?), as well as being driven by the pride of life and lust of the eyes etc, chose to eat of the tree that promised death, because Satan lied to them. The really sad thing is that people still tell that same lie
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
You don't see a difference in being hit directly by a supernatural being with a whirlwind that collapses a house on you and then you're dead, end of story, versus a man influenced in his heart by a supernatural being selling you into slavery, creating awful circumstances for you but you're still alive?
It's no biggie if both sets of circumstances look identical to you as pertains to the level of force brought to bear against you, but I do see a difference.
I mostly was trying to help you to maybe not absolutely have to insist on Job as allegory in order to piece it all together in your mind. I was just trying to help you work on it with the option of maybe not having to insist it has to be allegory and is impossible that it could have involved a real live man. I was trying to help your argument, not mine, because I don't have a problem with Job and peter showing that satan has to ask permission before a direct hit and I can see a difference between a direct hit on a human from a supernatural being versus a human heart influenced to sin against a man.
I completely agree with your last paragraph by the way.
It's no biggie if both sets of circumstances look identical to you as pertains to the level of force brought to bear against you, but I do see a difference.
I mostly was trying to help you to maybe not absolutely have to insist on Job as allegory in order to piece it all together in your mind. I was just trying to help you work on it with the option of maybe not having to insist it has to be allegory and is impossible that it could have involved a real live man. I was trying to help your argument, not mine, because I don't have a problem with Job and peter showing that satan has to ask permission before a direct hit and I can see a difference between a direct hit on a human from a supernatural being versus a human heart influenced to sin against a man.
I completely agree with your last paragraph by the way.
There must be some misunderstanding. There is no such teaching in the Bible about the cause of sin. James tells us what is the cause of sin (James 1:14,15): But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
So here's how it works:
OUTWARD TEMPTATION-->INNER LUST TRIGGERED-->SIN PRODUCED (WORD OR ACTION)-->PENALTY = DEATH
There are three primary lusts, and Eve succumbed to all three:
THE LUST OF THE FLESH = And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food
THE LUST OF THE EYES = ...and that it was pleasant to the eyes
THE PRIDE OF LIFE = ... and a tree to be desired to make one wise
So here's how it works:
OUTWARD TEMPTATION-->INNER LUST TRIGGERED-->SIN PRODUCED (WORD OR ACTION)-->PENALTY = DEATH
There are three primary lusts, and Eve succumbed to all three:
THE LUST OF THE FLESH = And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food
THE LUST OF THE EYES = ...and that it was pleasant to the eyes
THE PRIDE OF LIFE = ... and a tree to be desired to make one wise
Last edited:
My point was that God told them what would happen and they chose not to listen and to do it anyway. Using her analogy of the child and the stove, where your child wants to touch it and you on purpose let him, seems to me to be saying God is to blame. So I brought up the fact that the garden was more like analogy B, which I gave.
I was not at all suggesting that God didn't know what they would do. If that were the case, why would the Lamb have been slain from the foundation of the world? Are you going to allow your son to be slaughtered for a maybe just in case might happen?
I was not at all suggesting that God didn't know what they would do. If that were the case, why would the Lamb have been slain from the foundation of the world? Are you going to allow your son to be slaughtered for a maybe just in case might happen?