Happy St. Anna and St James Day!
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NO. I don't even believe that Anna was married.
Anyway, here's what I found on the parents of Mary:
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Mary’s parents are St. Joachim and St. Anne.
What we know about them comes from tradition and from apocryphal writings (writings that are in the style of sacred Scripture but are not believed to have been divinely inspired). The Protoevangelium of James (written around A.D. 150) describes them as a wealthy couple who were infertile for many years, leading Joachim to fast for 40 days and nights in hopes of having a child.
Mary’s birth was announced by an angel, leading to much rejoicing on the part of Joachim and Anne. The story also explains that Mary was consecrated to the Lord and went to live in the temple at the age of 3.
It’s hard, from our perspective, to know how much of this is historically accurate. It seems fair to say that though some of the story is probably embellished by imagination, there may be elements of truth in it.
It’s fairly likely that the names of Joachim and Anne would have been remembered accurately over the years, even if the precise details of their lives were not. As the grandparents of Jesus, St. Joachim and St. Anne have long been honored by both the Eastern Church as well as by Catholics.
Catholics observe the feast of Joachim and Anne on July 26.
Anyway, here's what I found on the parents of Mary:
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Mary’s parents are St. Joachim and St. Anne.
What we know about them comes from tradition and from apocryphal writings (writings that are in the style of sacred Scripture but are not believed to have been divinely inspired). The Protoevangelium of James (written around A.D. 150) describes them as a wealthy couple who were infertile for many years, leading Joachim to fast for 40 days and nights in hopes of having a child.
Mary’s birth was announced by an angel, leading to much rejoicing on the part of Joachim and Anne. The story also explains that Mary was consecrated to the Lord and went to live in the temple at the age of 3.
It’s hard, from our perspective, to know how much of this is historically accurate. It seems fair to say that though some of the story is probably embellished by imagination, there may be elements of truth in it.
It’s fairly likely that the names of Joachim and Anne would have been remembered accurately over the years, even if the precise details of their lives were not. As the grandparents of Jesus, St. Joachim and St. Anne have long been honored by both the Eastern Church as well as by Catholics.
Catholics observe the feast of Joachim and Anne on July 26.
F
True that some Christians do things that are inspirational to others and there is nothing wrong with striving to be a better person, but when we start talking about "better" or "lesser" Christians, we begin to blur a line and we lose sight of the fact that according to the Bible NO ONE IS GOOD, NO, NOT ONE and we forget that the Church is made up of all different kinds of people who are called to perform different tasks within the body of Christ. The Word says that each member of this body is equally important, therefor some are called and destined to become martyrs while others are called and destined for something else. So are we all in the same class? I don't know why we would want to define a class. All I can say is that we are all equally important.
Never mind... you continue as you wish as will i... I don't believe the Catholic Church is of the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and our Messiah.
Such blatant idol worship and heresy.. it is a unity church because they will attempt to unite the world..
Those partaking blindly are the ones I care about...
Such blatant idol worship and heresy.. it is a unity church because they will attempt to unite the world..
Those partaking blindly are the ones I care about...
Yes, well, this sounds very nice.
St. Lawrence got roasted to Death. First on one side, then on the other.
This happened because he would not renounce Christ.
I don't know if i'd be able to do this...
I hope you're sure that you could.
Because if you CANNOT, yes, I'd say St. Lawrence has something you don't have...
St. Lawrence got roasted to Death. First on one side, then on the other.
This happened because he would not renounce Christ.
I don't know if i'd be able to do this...
I hope you're sure that you could.
Because if you CANNOT, yes, I'd say St. Lawrence has something you don't have...
B
I have no idea how they came up with that theory, do they have any scripture to support that idea?
From what I've read in genelogies of Jesus one being on Mary's side of the family as below
Luke 3:23
King James Bible
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Jesus was baptized around 30 years old, the last part of this verse should have been "the son in law of Heli"
From what I've read in genelogies of Jesus one being on Mary's side of the family as below
Luke 3:23
King James Bible
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Jesus was baptized around 30 years old, the last part of this verse should have been "the son in law of Heli"
F
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
(Act 7:54-60)
The bravery / courage these men faced came from God, as the courage and bravery of men and women who are martyred for their faiths today come from Him as well. God being who He is, will surely give us the courage if we were to face such a situation. This does not mean however that these men were "better" than any other Christian. You ask if I could do this? My answer is: No, not on my own, BUT I would be able to do it through Christ who strengthens me. Did St Lawrence do this on his own? I will argue that He only was able to bare this because of Christ who strengthened Him. The glory should never fall on man, only on God. I repeat. No saint, no pope, no Pastor, NO FLESH (with the exception of Jesus Christ) is good. NOT ONE
(Act 7:54-60)
The bravery / courage these men faced came from God, as the courage and bravery of men and women who are martyred for their faiths today come from Him as well. God being who He is, will surely give us the courage if we were to face such a situation. This does not mean however that these men were "better" than any other Christian. You ask if I could do this? My answer is: No, not on my own, BUT I would be able to do it through Christ who strengthens me. Did St Lawrence do this on his own? I will argue that He only was able to bare this because of Christ who strengthened Him. The glory should never fall on man, only on God. I repeat. No saint, no pope, no Pastor, NO FLESH (with the exception of Jesus Christ) is good. NOT ONE
I understand what you are saying, even though I don't quite agree totally.... there were thousands of Christians who were martyred in horrible ways back during the Roman era... many were hung on poles, or crosses, then set afire to light the roads around Rome. Some were thrown to the lions to be torn apart and eaten alive.... "St. Lawrence" was just another of the wonderful, Godly believers who willingly were martyred for Jesus... I don't think that makes HIM any better than any of the other thousands... quite possibly better than ME (I hope I would have that same faith, but I won't know until I'm faced with it), but no more of a saint than any of us.
I have no idea how they came up with that theory, do they have any scripture to support that idea?
It's already been covered - see the Protoevangelion of John. It's apocryphal, but one of the few places they are referenced.
On another note -
The whole thing with Joseph is kind of interesting – there are several schools of thought depending on which branch of Christianity you adhere to.
The general belief is that he was older than Mary. Indeed, in Christian iconography, particularly Eastern Orthodox, he is typically depicted as an old man. Oftentimes, even in Western art, it looks as if he’s almost staring off into space and is totally removed from what’s going on around him. This was explained to me as being done purposefully to detract attention from Joseph and focus it on Jesus. Joseph is there, but is sort of 'artistically faded' into the background, so to speak.
If Joseph was in fact older and a widower, commonly the reasoning behind explaining Jesus’ brothers and sisters mentioned in the Bible, Jesus had step-siblings. And Mary had step children who may have even been older than she was.
This is, I believe, the Eastern Orthodox view; i.e. that Joseph was older and a widower with children.
I’m not sure I agree with this theory though. Let’s face it; an older man with several older children in tow hardly makes for an ideal marriage prospect for a young girl of marital age.
In Western Christianity, he is generally older, possibly a widower and possibly with other children. Not all agree as to whether or not he was a widower, and if so, whether or not he also had children from his previous marriage.
I don’t think Joseph was all that much older than Mary. If Mary was around 15-16, Joseph was most likely around 18-20. Children named as brothers and sisters of Jesus were his actual siblings; all born after he was. This view, of which I’m not alone in thinking it, is regarded as sort of ‘heretical’ in some circles, but I think it makes the most sense.
So why, by the time Jesus starts his public ministry, is Joseph nowhere to be found?
The usual answer is that he was deceased (given that he was an older man to begin with). Not sure I agree with that.
In simple terms, I think it can be agreed upon that the gospel of Mark (and the so-called Q-Gospel from which it came) as well as Matthew and Luke (who most likely copied from Mark) all essentially tell a story. There is very convincing evidence that that the writer of Mark used a particular ‘literary template’ in writing it, but that’s a topic for another day.
In the telling of this story, it’s possible we see a typical, what has come to be known as a, “Märchen-formula” being used. ‘Märchen’ is German for ‘folk-tale’ where this formula is very common and in some cases, almost a requirement for the tale.
In this formula, the ‘hero’ of the story starts off as an infant/youth and comes into his own as the main figure, i.e. the ‘hero’ of the story. When he does so, the other leading male figure (almost always the father) is simply written out of the narrative resulting in the focus being placed solely on the story’s hero. Usually the father figure is killed off or meets some other untimely demise, but the point is, when the hero comes into his own, the father figure is never mentioned again; he simply just vanishes completely from the narrative. It should be noted that in the Märchen-formula, it doesn’t always have to be the father; it can be the mother or even both parents.
This may be the case here as well – Joseph figures into the infancy and youth of Jesus, but as soon as Jesus becomes officially an adult (in this case, the temple scene when Mary and Joseph ‘loose’ Jesus and find him in the temple later – if memory serves me, he was about the age of what would have been his bar-mitzvah), Joseph is no longer mentioned in the Gospel narrative; he simply disappears never to he heard from again. The focus is now on the ‘hero’, Jesus, as he begins his public ministry.
So, in short, I personally do not see Joseph as being much older than Mary and I don’t think he died somewhere between the time Jesus was 12-13 and the start of his public ministry at about 30; Assuming he was about 20 when Jesus was born, he would have been somewhere around 55-ish at the time of the crucifixion. I think his ‘job’ in the Gospel story was done, so to speak, and he was simply edited out of the narrative. To place him back in later on would have been somewhat awkward for both the author and the story itself.
It's already been covered - see the Protoevangelion of John. It's apocryphal, but one of the few places they are referenced.
On another note -
The whole thing with Joseph is kind of interesting – there are several schools of thought depending on which branch of Christianity you adhere to.
The general belief is that he was older than Mary. Indeed, in Christian iconography, particularly Eastern Orthodox, he is typically depicted as an old man. Oftentimes, even in Western art, it looks as if he’s almost staring off into space and is totally removed from what’s going on around him. This was explained to me as being done purposefully to detract attention from Joseph and focus it on Jesus. Joseph is there, but is sort of 'artistically faded' into the background, so to speak.
If Joseph was in fact older and a widower, commonly the reasoning behind explaining Jesus’ brothers and sisters mentioned in the Bible, Jesus had step-siblings. And Mary had step children who may have even been older than she was.
This is, I believe, the Eastern Orthodox view; i.e. that Joseph was older and a widower with children.
I’m not sure I agree with this theory though. Let’s face it; an older man with several older children in tow hardly makes for an ideal marriage prospect for a young girl of marital age.
In Western Christianity, he is generally older, possibly a widower and possibly with other children. Not all agree as to whether or not he was a widower, and if so, whether or not he also had children from his previous marriage.
I don’t think Joseph was all that much older than Mary. If Mary was around 15-16, Joseph was most likely around 18-20. Children named as brothers and sisters of Jesus were his actual siblings; all born after he was. This view, of which I’m not alone in thinking it, is regarded as sort of ‘heretical’ in some circles, but I think it makes the most sense.
So why, by the time Jesus starts his public ministry, is Joseph nowhere to be found?
The usual answer is that he was deceased (given that he was an older man to begin with). Not sure I agree with that.
In simple terms, I think it can be agreed upon that the gospel of Mark (and the so-called Q-Gospel from which it came) as well as Matthew and Luke (who most likely copied from Mark) all essentially tell a story. There is very convincing evidence that that the writer of Mark used a particular ‘literary template’ in writing it, but that’s a topic for another day.
In the telling of this story, it’s possible we see a typical, what has come to be known as a, “Märchen-formula” being used. ‘Märchen’ is German for ‘folk-tale’ where this formula is very common and in some cases, almost a requirement for the tale.
In this formula, the ‘hero’ of the story starts off as an infant/youth and comes into his own as the main figure, i.e. the ‘hero’ of the story. When he does so, the other leading male figure (almost always the father) is simply written out of the narrative resulting in the focus being placed solely on the story’s hero. Usually the father figure is killed off or meets some other untimely demise, but the point is, when the hero comes into his own, the father figure is never mentioned again; he simply just vanishes completely from the narrative. It should be noted that in the Märchen-formula, it doesn’t always have to be the father; it can be the mother or even both parents.
This may be the case here as well – Joseph figures into the infancy and youth of Jesus, but as soon as Jesus becomes officially an adult (in this case, the temple scene when Mary and Joseph ‘loose’ Jesus and find him in the temple later – if memory serves me, he was about the age of what would have been his bar-mitzvah), Joseph is no longer mentioned in the Gospel narrative; he simply disappears never to he heard from again. The focus is now on the ‘hero’, Jesus, as he begins his public ministry.
So, in short, I personally do not see Joseph as being much older than Mary and I don’t think he died somewhere between the time Jesus was 12-13 and the start of his public ministry at about 30; Assuming he was about 20 when Jesus was born, he would have been somewhere around 55-ish at the time of the crucifixion. I think his ‘job’ in the Gospel story was done, so to speak, and he was simply edited out of the narrative. To place him back in later on would have been somewhat awkward for both the author and the story itself.
B
Saint Anne, of David's house and line, was the mother of Mary and grandmother of Jesus according to apocryphal Christian and Islamic tradition. Mary's mother is not named in the canonical gospels, nor in the Quran. In writing, Anne's name and that of her husband Joachim come only from New Testament apocrypha, of which the Gospel of James (written perhaps around 150) seems to be the earliest that mentions them. Modern Orthodox Christian scholars assert that the names were written in the Gospel of James as a result of being known in the Christian community within which that work was composed.
That's really not debatable, since it was Day 1 Anno Hominis (AH) which is the Year of Man.
Getting back to the saints, another aspect of this false doctrine is "canonization", which essentially puts the Pope in place of God as the one who makes saints. If it were not so ridiculous it would be blasphemous.
The true doctrine of saints is that every child of God is also a saint of God, sanctified by the indwelling Holy Spirit. So if we are saints positionally, we need to behave as saints practically -- holy and blameless.
Getting back to the saints, another aspect of this false doctrine is "canonization", which essentially puts the Pope in place of God as the one who makes saints. If it were not so ridiculous it would be blasphemous.
The true doctrine of saints is that every child of God is also a saint of God, sanctified by the indwelling Holy Spirit. So if we are saints positionally, we need to behave as saints practically -- holy and blameless.
