Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,405
2,648
113
It has become necessary to post this here since we have this false doctrine being peddled on CC of late. Believe it or not, I care about people and wish to help protect the flock from error! Please note and take time to read Acts 20:28-30 and other Scriptures provided.

Please do not be deceived by the "Conditional Time Salvation" heresy promoted and peddled by Primitive Baptists otherwise known as "Hardshells" or "Hardshell Baptists". They are merely seeking converts to their teaching while at the same time being anti-evangelistic. There has to be another outlet when one turns to such false teaching, and it extends itself in them trying to reach others with their false gospel and to make "converts."

Nearly every post will be about this heresy, they focus on this to poison the well and deceive others.

Understand who this is coming from, and realize that Hardshells or Primitive Baptists are against these things:

1) That preaching the Gospel is God's means to save his people with an eternal salvation in Christ; 1 Corinthian 1:18; Romans 1:16; Ephesians 1, 2 &c.

2) They are against missionary work.

3) They stand against contextual eternal salvation as revealed in the NT Scriptures.

These deny what they call "means salvation" (their terminology) and will ridicule others for their "Gospel means" preaching, in other words for believing Scripture that God uses this preaching to save his people, eternally. Note Romans 10:13-17 for example. So they would call others who believe this in Romans "Gospel means" preachers or "means preachers" and it is meant to be derogatory.

The logical conclusion of their teaching is hyper-Calvinism, and is totally anti-evangelistic, anti-missionary, anti-Gospel. The latter they will deny because they've truncated the Gospel into their meaning of "gospel," making it completely false; note Galatians 1:8-10. They will also deny they are in any fashion "Calvinistic" but only to avoid the fitting label of "hyper-Calvinism."

Please read these excerpts that explain this better than I can. I will provide a link at the end or further reading:

"Secrecy" of some sort is a characteristic of a cult. Christians have their "secrets" (Psa. 25:14; Prov. 3:32), but the distinctive secrets of the Hardshell cult are not the secrets of God or of His kingdom."

"Their primary "secret" revelation concerns the doctrine they call "Time Salvation." You have to be trained in Hardshell "dogma" to know all that the words convey. What the Hardshells believe the terminology, "Time Salvation," represents would never cross the average Bible reader's mind. You have to hear it from a Hardshell to be introduced to and informed in the meaning of its theological “jargon.”

"It is an integral part of the Hardshell DEFENSE and APOLOGETIC, for their "Spirit Alone" and "No-Means Regeneration" theories, to get their opponents or would be "converts" to inbibe <sic> all the teachings involved in this doctrine of "Time Salvation."

"It will become obvious to most who read this essay on Hardshellism, that these Hardshells, who have historically opposed any thing "new," i.e. "inventions," have themselves, ironically and hypocritically, introduced many new things under the Baptist and Christian name, at least in doctrine."

Read more here.
Understood thank You. Sounds like Gnostic mischief to me. Mainline Baptist Churches are not involved in this matter.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,702
113
Understood thank You. Sounds like Gnostic mischief to me. Mainline Baptist Churches are not involved in this matter.
My apologies if it appears I've been too harsh with GraceandTruth.

Yet, whenever a professing believer slanders another without evidence, without cause, bearing false witness, and conveniently and purposely leaves off information to paint a picture of how they want it to appear?

Well then...
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,080
2,229
113
I have been a Baptist for a long, long time. As a child, I went to Baptist Sunday School, sang in the children's choir. Of course, I knew nothing about doctrine, I was just glad to be there, and thankful for all the weekly Bible verses I memorized, that were hidden in my heart, and kept coming back to me, and drew me, along with the Holy Spirit, to Christ.

I went back to being a Baptist in 2005. Because of moving, I have been in three different denominations, or conventions/conferences. They have some slight variations, on side issues, but identical when it comes to soteriology, and basic fundamentals of the faith.

These PB are totally off the wall, from what I have read here. It is kind of a twisted universalist cult! Non-Biblical, and far from orthodoxy. I attended a Southern Baptist seminary, and we had students from every denomination in Canada. Many shades of Baptist, Mennonites, Lutherans, Anglicans, and charismatics, believe it or not. Some of those groups believe in infant baptism, but they had to study believers' baptism. But, they were allowed to believe what they wanted, provided it did not compromise essentials. Like a high Christology, the Trinity, that God saves us. We would talk, and we all agreed. Even the Arminians believe that God, and God alone initiates salvation, contrary to what people here have posted.

Point being, someone from a cult is here posting things that are totally unbiblical, and others defending him. He is here to make converts to PB, and NO, they do not agree with any Baptist group I have heard about!
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
684
113
We only allow guys in our church - It's The 1st Chaptist.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
684
113
What Primitive Baptists Believe

10. Don't you believe that the preaching of the gospel is God's ordained means of bringing eternal salvation to the sinner?

No, only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3:6-8). The gospel brings life and immortality to light, but does not produce life (II Tim.1: 10).

11. How then do you explain I Corinthians 1:21 and passages like it?

The text says, "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." Please notice, that the one saved by the gospel is a believer, one who believes in God, one who has already been born again; he is not an alien sinner.

12. Why is it that Primitive Baptists do not send out missionaries?

First, we believe that since preaching is not designed to make people ready for a home in Heaven, it is not necessary to send men across the seas in order to "save souls." The Lord put gifts in the church (Eph. 4:11) and there is no mention of a missionary. Furthermore, the gifts that the Lord did put in the church were not put there for the purpose of saving souls but "for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Eph. 4:12).

Secondly, we believe that gospel ministers should go where they are directed by the Spirit and not by a mission board (Acts 20:22-23). Primitive Baptists believe that if the Lord impresses one of His servants to go to a foreign land to preach the gospel, he ought to go at once and not wait for someone to pay his way.

Full textus:

https://www.milanpbc.org/Doctrine/What_Primitive_Baptists_Believe/
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,191
113
What Primitive Baptists Believe

10. Don't you believe that the preaching of the gospel is God's ordained means of bringing eternal salvation to the sinner?

No, only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3:6-8). The gospel brings life and immortality to light, but does not produce life (II Tim.1: 10).

11. How then do you explain I Corinthians 1:21 and passages like it?

The text says, "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." Please notice, that the one saved by the gospel is a believer, one who believes in God, one who has already been born again; he is not an alien sinner.

12. Why is it that Primitive Baptists do not send out missionaries?

First, we believe that since preaching is not designed to make people ready for a home in Heaven, it is not necessary to send men across the seas in order to "save souls." The Lord put gifts in the church (Eph. 4:11) and there is no mention of a missionary. Furthermore, the gifts that the Lord did put in the church were not put there for the purpose of saving souls but "for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Eph. 4:12).

Secondly, we believe that gospel ministers should go where they are directed by the Spirit and not by a mission board (Acts 20:22-23). Primitive Baptists believe that if the Lord impresses one of His servants to go to a foreign land to preach the gospel, he ought to go at once and not wait for someone to pay his way.

Full textus:

https://www.milanpbc.org/Doctrine/What_Primitive_Baptists_Believe/
That is some whacked out beliefs.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,(Ephesians 1:13)

Notice the sequence in the above verse. They trusted after they heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation. After this, they were sealed with the Spirit.
Sheep = God's elect. My Sheep hear my voice and I call them by name. Those who have ears to hear, let them hear. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 does not have spiritual ears to hear. Eph 1:5 - says that the natural man was yet (spiritually) dead in sins when God regenerated him, then he believed and trusted. 2 Cor 1:21-22 - Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ (regeneration), and hath anointed us, is God WHO HATH ALSO sealed (stamped) us, and given the earnest (part payment or deposit) of the Spirit in our hearts. First- regenerated.(given the ability to discern spiritual things). Second - Believed and trusted. And hath also - sealed us and given us the earnest of the Spirit.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
That’s funny he is the only member you are following . You must really like him .
Blessings
Bill
Sorry bill, I did not mean to shun anyone, it is just that those two seem to be the most determined to destroy the doctrine of Jesus.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
:ROFL:

Um...not quite.

Care to address the false doctrine espoused by PB's or do you just want to attack your straw man and tie it with your outright false accusations? It appears all the times I've corrected you online has left you with quite the grudge. :)

Do show us all where I've lead any down a false road. You've said it happened "once again" so show the evidence or put an end to the above.

The teachings that the PB's and ForestGreenCook espouse are not orthodox unless you also buy its false gospel. Quoting a source that only supplies the rosy part of the PB's isn't true as is no half-truth. It conveniently, like yourself, only presents what it likes to present.

The PB cult began around the time of William Carey's mission endeavors and that's when its errant gospel began.

You really have a serious problem of not knowing what you're talking about. A lot.
Of course you know that I accuse you of the same thing, "leading people down a false road". Jesus set his church up when he was walking this earth as a man/God and it never was a part of the Roman Catholic church, and therefore never a part of the reformation. However small the church is (the remnant, the little flock, the few, etc.) there will always be a witness, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, no madder how hard you and other false doctrine preachers, who are children of God, try to stamp it out.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
When a preacher preaches or teaches God's word, he doesn't just get up there and quote a bunch of scriptures and then sits down, but expounds on what those verses are truly saying. They are giving you/us a verbal commentary of the bible.

If you reject commentaries because they are the works of men, you have to reject sermons as well, as sermons follow the same principle(s) written commentaries do my friend.
No one should take the comments of a preacher to be the gospel truth without checking them against the scriptures. I do this all the time with the elders that I sit under, and have called to their attention some corrections of their comments.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
My apologies if it appears I've been too harsh with GraceandTruth.

Yet, whenever a professing believer slanders another without evidence, without cause, bearing false witness, and conveniently and purposely leaves off information to paint a picture of how they want it to appear?

Well then...
You just painted a picture, in words, of yourself.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
Yep. People just dont know how anti-biblical that is. When they say that then we know why they're in so much error. It doesn't sound humble either. It is the stench of the flesh and arrogance.
Can you explain what you mean by "anti-biblical" and exactly what you think is anti-biblical?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
Think about the arrogance of their "gospel." It's a nothing gospel, some message about hey if you would like a little help, then do some works and you'll be helped. If not, no biggie, see you in heaven. Its inherently weak, false, a mockery of the truth and a dishonor to God.
You talk about dishonoring God, when you say that God wants to eternally save all mankind and some men stops God by refusing to let God save him. What you believe restricts God's power in accomplishing all of his will.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,653
444
83
54
You talk about dishonoring God, when you say that God wants to eternally save all mankind and some men stops God by refusing to let God save him. What you believe restricts God's power in accomplishing all of his will.
Ok simple question how is he doing this? Is it not God’s will to spread the Gospel? Dose not God have men and women of faith preach through the Holy Spirit. Look at the Scriptures.
Matthew 28:16-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Great Commission
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Look FGC even this part is not fully completed.
There are just over 7 billion people in the world nearly 4.4 billion are unreached . Over 1600 distinct language do not have a translation of the Bible.
How are we making disciples as Christ has said . God would not send folks on a fools errand. There is a reason for his still uncompleted command.
Blessings
Bill
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,047
736
113
Ok simple question how is he doing this? Is it not God’s will to spread the Gospel? Dose not God have men and women of faith preach through the Holy Spirit. Look at the Scriptures.
Matthew 28:16-20 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Great Commission
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Look FGC even this part is not fully completed.
There are just over 7 billion people in the world nearly 4.4 billion are unreached . Over 1600 distinct language do not have a translation of the Bible.
How are we making disciples as Christ has said . God would not send folks on a fools errand. There is a reason for his still uncompleted command.
Blessings
Bill[/QUOTE Matt 10:6 - Jesus told his disciples to go to the lost sheep (his children who have been born again) of the house of Israel (God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, which is a type of God's elect. Gen 32:28) The inspired words of the bible were written for the purpose of instructing God's children how to live their lives while on earth. The preachers duty is to feed the flock (sheep). Jesus did not tell them to go and make children of God, he told them to go and make disciples, out of the children of God. The lost sheep of the house of Israel were not lost eternally, but were lost from fellowship with God because of a lack of knowledge of the gospel. God choose an elect people, Eph 1, and saved them eternally by Christ dying for their sins on the cross, securing their eternal destination. Jesus's sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not a sacrifice to mankind for mankind's acceptance. John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life; and they are they which testify of me. verse 40 - And ye will not come to me, that ye may have life. (a life of fellowship with God here on earth, not eternal life). The gospel, by understanding it, can deliver (save) you here on earth, but not eternally. All of the scriptures that use the words of ; repent, confess, accept, believe, obey etc. are directed to the born again children of God. To the lost sheep of the house of Jacob, not to the lost of all mankind.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,653
444
83
54
What happened up there it’s all mixed up can you just put up your part . Bad eyes smal tablet to read and post on here
Blessings
Bill
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,702
113
You talk about dishonoring God, when you say that God wants to eternally save all mankind and some men stops God by refusing to let God save him. What you believe restricts God's power in accomplishing all of his will.
I've never taught that God wants to eternally save everyone. Most everyone here knows this.

You need to learn to stop bearing false witness, not only on others and myself but on God's Gospel as well. OK? You really should stop your fibbing and learn top tell the truth like I have about you and your PB heresy.

But I am here to dismantle your heretical false gospel with Scripture and will prove to his elect God saves through the means of His Gospel, and that that salvation is eternal life, not some skewed prosperity gospel of salvation from circumstances in this life only.

In fact I've already destroyed your false gospel message in posts 149-150. But there is more.