Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?

[NTNT58]

I see you're too stubborn to accept that you're simply wrong.

So far you failed to prove me wrong, and you won't even answer basic questions. Not answering basic questions just shows how self-absorbed and in denial you are about your own argument. If you had any truth on your side you would be able to point exactly where the definition fits in our discussion, but you don't.

 

[NTNT58]

This is a silly argument. People who seek to live for God don't commit murder, and aren't looking for excuses to do so. People who aren't seeking to live for God don't care what He says anyway.

You completely missed the point. If a fetus is not alive then it's not murder to kill it. Do you think abortion is ok?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

KJV says practice and observe EVERYTHING they tell you, not just things relating to scripture. Romans 13:1 tells everyone to obey ALL authority, including corrupt and evil governments (as long as their commands don't contradict God's word). So we must obey ALL authority at ALL times, not just when they tell us to follow scripture.



Peter was listed first among disciples (Matt. 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13).
Peter was the one who generally spoke for the apostles (Matt. 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:68-69), and he figured in many of the most dramatic scenes (Matt. 14:28-32, 17:24-27; Mark 10:23-28).
On Pentecost it was Peter who first preached to the crowds (Acts 2:14-40), and he worked the first healing in the Church age (Acts 3:6-7).
It is Peter’s faith that will strengthen his brethren (Luke 22:32) and Peter is given Christ’s flock to shepherd (John 21:17).
An angel was sent to announce the resurrection to Peter (Mark 16:7), and the risen Christ appeared first to Peter (Luke 24:34).
He headed the meeting that elected Matthias to replace Judas (Acts 1:13-26), and he received the first converts (Acts 2:41).
He inflicted the first punishment (Acts 5:1-11) and excommunicated the first heretic (Acts 8:18-23).
He led the first council in Jerusalem (Acts 15) and announced the first dogmatic decision (Acts 15:7-11).
It was to Peter that the revelation came that Gentiles were to be baptized and accepted as Christians (Acts 10:46-48).
Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven in Mathew 16:19 because he was the first one to acknowledge him as the Messiah.
After the Resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and asked Peter three times, “Do you love me?” (John 21:15-17). In repentance for his threefold denial, Peter gave a threefold affirmation of love. Then Christ, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11, 14), gave Peter the authority he earlier had promised: “Feed my sheep” (John 21:17). This specifically included the other apostles, since Jesus asked Peter, “Do you love me more than these?” (John 21:15), the word “these” referring to the other apostles who were present (John 21:2).

It doesn't matter if they are apostate, just like it doesn't matter if the government is corrupt, Romans 13:1 tells us to obey ALL authority, and there is plenty of evidence of the authority held by the Catholic church.



Interesting how you mention Revelation 17-18 which talks about Babylon, while in Jeremaya 27:17 God tells his people through prophet Jeremaya to serve the king of Babylon. This further aligns with Romans 13:1 telling us to obey ALL authority because all authority is ultimately from God and rebelling against it is rebelling against God. Nowhere does it say obey ALL authority "as long as it's not apostate" or "as long as it's not pagan", the Bible clearly says ALL authority is from God. It doesn't matter how much you or I hate a particular government or the Catholic church, the only reason they are in power is because God decided so. And the only reason any evil is in power is because God is using it to chastise his people. Rebelling against God's chastisement will only bring more chastisement upon you and others.

In this video, at the 22 minute mark, Theo Hikmat shows the inside of a Catholic Bible. In that RCC Bible he shows you on the screen a page from its dictionary that states that it is forbidden for the Catholic lay person to read the King James Version. No other books are mentioned by name but the KJV. So many of the Catholics always hated the KJV. Granted, the Catholic Church has changed tactics in recent years, and they came out with a 2020 Catholic KJV with their corrupt apocryphal books. But realize the Catholic Church had their Bible (The Douay rheims) which came out as a complete Bible one year before the KJV.

So you have a choice to make. Either choose God’s Word (the KJV), or choose the Catholic Church. The choice is yours. I have made my choice. I am standing by God’s Word and not with an apostate church. It seems like you want to simply be Catholic. If such is the case, nothing can convince you otherwise if that is what you want to see. Again, all Modern Bibles are Catholic Bibles. The KJV is the only one that stands separate from them. The RCC only recently has tried to be in acceptance of the KJV.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

The question is a thinly-veiled attack on my character and beliefs, not, as you claim, "honest and fair". I will conclude that you would like me to treat you "honestly and fairly".

I can do that.

Attacking false beliefs is not wrong but attacking one’s character can be wrong in many cases. I strive to make it about the false belief and not the person. Do I always succeed in this? No. But my goal is a discussion involving the Bible vs. man made beliefs or beliefs in the churches that are not biblical.

 

[NTNT58]

In this video, at the 22 minute mark, Theo Hikmat shows the inside of a Catholic Bible. In that RCC Bible he shows you on the screen a page from its dictionary that states that it is forbidden for the Catholic lay person to read the King James Version. No other books are mentioned by name but the KJV. So many of the Catholics always hated the KJV. Granted, the Catholic Church has changed tactics in recent years, and they came out with a 2020 Catholic KJV with their corrupt apocryphal books. But realize the Catholic Church had their Bible (The Douay rheims) which came out as a complete Bible one year before the KJV.

So you have a choice to make. Either choose God’s Word (the KJV), or choose the Catholic Church. The choice is yours. I have made my choice. I am standing by God’s Word and not with an apostate church. It seems like you want to simply be Catholic. If such is the case, nothing can convince you otherwise if that is what you want to see. Again, all Modern Bibles are Catholic Bibles. The KJV is the only one that stands separate from them. The RCC only recently has tried to be in acceptance of the KJV.

As I've explained already, it doesn't matter what Bible they use and it doesn't matter what they do, just like it doesn't matter how evil our government is, the Bible (KJV) still tells us to OBEY ALL AUTHORITY. The argument you are making does not refute my point. The word of God tells us to obey all authority (as long as it doesn't go against the word of God).

I don't want to be part of the Catholic church, but the word of God tells us we have to. It seems like you would rather find excuses not to listen to the word of God. None of these excuses you listed are valid, there have been far more evil authorities than the Catholic church and the Bible still tells us to be subject to them.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Don't be so arrogant to think that you are "enlightening" me about anything. You're merely supporting the assertions you made.

I am enlightening you, dear sir. You had no idea of the claims I made and you wanted proof.
So I provided it because you did not know. If you knew, you would have not asked for me to support my statements involving the false doctrines that I mentioned.

The Living Bible is a paraphrase, and anyone doing serious study knows that. Claims that "modern Bibles" say this or that are not evidence; they are hearsay at best. Quote specific translations (plural) that say what you claim.

You fail to understand that all Modern Bibles come from the same line of corrupt source and that is why we see problems in Modern Bibles, even the so-called respectable ones like the NASB1995 (Which I have shown problems in).

Also, one simple question: What makes you think that those words belong there, if the only evidence you have is the KJV? Logically, it is just as legitimate to state that the KJV has extra words.

We don’t look at just one link in the chain. We look at all the patterns of evidence and follow it to it’s conclusions. Surely if the removal of the words of Jesus was the only point or reason alone, I wouldn’t be talking here. But when we see how there are verses in Modern Bibles that make Jesus appear to sin, and we see major doctrinal problems in Modern Bibles (even the respectable ones), then it is a pretty good conclusion to make the KJV is superior.

I suggest you do a little more homework on the meaning of the word behind "begotten" in the original language(s).

Can you order a pizza in Greek? Can you speak Greek like you can the locals with ease? I believe you would at least have to know Modern Greek before even tackling Koine Greek. So you are not qualified. Pointing to some dictionary by the corrupted Modernists is not proof of anything.

Did you even know that Westcott and Hort had Unitarians on their team for the Revised Version? It makes sense why we see a subtle attack on the deity of Jesus in the Modern Bibles. But you have to be a detective and look at the patterns of evidence to figure that out, my friend.

Anyway, when I look at the English word for begotten in the 1913 Webster dictionary it says, beget (Begat) (Source).
It defines it as procreate. When you look at the genealogy in Matthew 1, we can see the word “begat” mentioned several times (See: Matthew 1:2-11 here).

No, they do not.

Sorry, that’s not any actual rebuttal. You have to actually bring up the Modern Translations that I mentioned and show that this is not so. Just dismissing it with a quick response is not sufficient. You are just disagreeing without really checking it for yourself. I already checked and so you can see those translations for yourself that say that.

The NLT is a paraphrase. I see no reason to debate its merits in this discussion. There is nothing wrong with the ESV wording. Again, look at the meaning of the key words in the Greek instead of assuming that the KJV is the best translation.

Again, they both come from a corrupt line of manuscripts and they are all going to attack Jesus Christ. But I have ran into many Christians who believe Jesus did not have any power during His ministry. Why? Because they don’t have the correct Bible like they did in the past. There was one English translation that was dominant. But today, you have all kinds of conflicting translations that cause doctrinal problems in the church. I actually had Christians tell me that Christ emptying Himself was in context to Him emptying Himself of His divine privileges or powers. This Is the rendering in the ESV.

No, we do not know that from Scripture, because Scripture says no such thing.

Actually, there are verses that imply that Christ’s Omniscience was suppressed. So yes. Some Christians do know about it.
It was something God revealed to me in Scripture. Just because you are not aware of the verses does not mean they do not exist.
But this is a topic is for another thread.

This is a silly argument. People who seek to live for God don't commit murder, and aren't looking for excuses to do so. People who aren't seeking to live for God don't care what He says anyway.

Actually it is not a silly argument. There are self professing Christians I have talked with before who believe in abortion. They also read and study the Bible.

Um, that is simply invalid. For the word "fornication" to be "removed" from the modern translations, it would had to have been there in the first place.

Okay. I don’t think you are getting it, my friend.
If the devil wanted to get believers to engage in sex before marriage, would it not be advantageous of him to remove or water down those verses in the Bible? Surely is it a coincidence today that newer Christians say that sex before marriage is not a sin or they do not even know what fornication even means?

Overall, it looks like you're another product of narrow-minded fearmongering preachers who spout the same tired accusations and never honestly consider any evidence that challenges their narrative. You aren't the first around here, and you probably won't be the last.

“….by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6).
”Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13:24).
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:14).

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

As I've explained already, it doesn't matter what Bible they use and it doesn't matter what they do, just like it doesn't matter how evil our government is, the Bible (KJV) still tells us to OBEY ALL AUTHORITY.

So we are to obey Satanists and Mormons, too? They are an authority within their groups.

The argument you are making does not refute my point. The word of God tells us to obey all authority (as long as it doesn't go against the word of God).

I don't want to be part of the Catholic church, but the word of God tells us we have to. It seems like you would rather find excuses not to listen to the word of God. None of these excuses you listed are valid, there have been far more evil authorities than the Catholic church and the Bible still tells us to be subject to them.

No. The Word of God does not tell us to be a part of the Catholic Church. But I am not here to convince you. Only God and His Word can do that.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I am enlightening you, dear sir. You had no idea of the claims I made and you wanted proof.
So I provided it because you did not know. If you knew, you would have not asked for me to support my statements involving the false doctrines that I mentioned.



You fail to understand that all Modern Bibles come from the same line of corrupt source and that is why we see problems in Modern Bibles, even the so-called respectable ones like the NASB1995 (Which I have shown problems in).



We don’t look at just one link in the chain. We look at all the patterns of evidence and follow it to it’s conclusions. Surely if the removal of the words of Jesus was the only point or reason alone, I wouldn’t be talking here. But when we see how there are verses in Modern Bibles that make Jesus appear to sin, and we see major doctrinal problems in Modern Bibles (even the respectable ones), then it is a pretty good conclusion to make the KJV is superior.



Can you order a pizza in Greek? Can you speak Greek like you can the locals with ease? I believe you would at least have to know Modern Greek before even tackling Koine Greek. So you are not qualified. Pointing to some dictionary by the corrupted Modernists is not proof of anything.

Did you even know that Westcott and Hort had Unitarians on their team for the Revised Version? It makes sense why we see a subtle attack on the deity of Jesus in the Modern Bibles. But you have to be a detective and look at the patterns of evidence to figure that out, my friend.

Anyway, when I look at the English word for begotten in the 1913 Webster dictionary it says, beget (Begat) (Source).
It defines it as procreate. When you look at the genealogy in Matthew 1, we can see the word “begat” mentioned several times (See: Matthew 1:2-11 here).




Sorry, that’s not any actual rebuttal. You have to actually bring up the Modern Translations that I mentioned and show that this is not so. Just dismissing it with a quick response is not sufficient. You are just disagreeing without really checking it for yourself. I already checked and so you can see those translations for yourself that say that.




Again, they both come from a corrupt line of manuscripts and they are all going to attack Jesus Christ. But I have ran into many Christians who believe Jesus did not have any power during His ministry. Why? Because they don’t have the correct Bible like they did in the past. There was one English translation that was dominant. But today, you have all kinds of conflicting translations that cause doctrinal problems in the church. I actually had Christians tell me that Christ emptying Himself was in context to Him emptying Himself of His divine privileges or powers. This Is the rendering in the ESV.



Actually, there are verses that imply that Christ’s Omniscience was suppressed. So yes. Some Christians do know about it.
It was something God revealed to me in Scripture. Just because you are not aware of the verses does not mean they do not exist.
But this is a topic is for another thread.



Actually it is not a silly argument. There are self professing Christians I have talked with before who believe in abortion. They also read and study the Bible.



Okay. I don’t think you are getting it, my friend.
If the devil wanted to get believers to engage in sex before marriage, would it not be advantageous of him to remove or water down those verses in the Bible? Surely is it a coincidence today that newer Christians say that sex before marriage is not a sin or they do not even know what fornication even means?



“….by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6).
”Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13:24).
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:14).

Meant to say, surely it is not a coincidence today that newer Christians say that sex before marriage is not a sin.

 

[NTNT58]

So we are to obey Satanists and Mormons, too? They are an authority within their groups.

No. The Word of God does not tell us to be a part of the Catholic Church. But I am not here to convince you. Only God and His Word can do that.

Satanists and Mormons do not have authority over the church, the Pope does. I've provided you with ample proof of Peter being the leader of the apostles, and you have not refuted a single one.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

As I've explained already, it doesn't matter what Bible they use and it doesn't matter what they do, just like it doesn't matter how evil our government is, the Bible (KJV) still tells us to OBEY ALL AUTHORITY. The argument you are making does not refute my point. The word of God tells us to obey all authority (as long as it doesn't go against the word of God).

I don't want to be part of the Catholic church, but the word of God tells us we have to. It seems like you would rather find excuses not to listen to the word of God. None of these excuses you listed are valid, there have been far more evil authorities than the Catholic church and the Bible still tells us to be subject to them.

Again, God is not going to tell you to obey idolatry, Mary worship, and talking to dead people. Nor is God going to tell you to obey an apostate church. Paul talks about those who have fallen away into believing false doctrines. Nowhere does he say that they have any kind of authority that should be obeyed. The Catholic church is heresy. We are to rebuke heretics according to the Bible, and not join them. You are not rightly dividing.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Satanists and Mormons do not have authority over the church, the Pope does. I've provided you with ample proof of Peter being the leader of the apostles, and you have not refuted a single one.

There is no biblical proof in the Bible that Peter was described like a pope we see today. They did not kiss his ring or whatever and neither did he have on long flowing robes where people praised him. Nowhere in the Bible do we see Mary worship, bowing to statues, and praying to dead saints. So seeing this is the case, then you are simply looking at the RCC history and believing it over what the Bible says. That’s what is happening here. You want to be Catholic because their dark practices attract you.

Any person who is truly repulsed by the Catholic Church would not join them anymore than a person would join the Nazi party because it repulses them.

 

[NTNT58]

Again, God is not going to tell you to obey idolatry, Mary worship, and talking to dead people. Nor is God going to tell you to obey an apostate church. Paul talks about those who have fallen away into believing false doctrines. Nowhere does he say that they have any kind of authority that should be obeyed. The Catholic church is heresy. We are to rebuke heretics according to the Bible, and not join them. You are not rightly dividing. Again, I think this has to do with you wanting to get hooked up into their dark practices of the RCC, or you may already be attracted to them already. I say this because why not join the Mormon cult? Why not join the JW cult? The JW cult believes they are the one and only true church, too.

Again, you're missing the point. The king of Babylon was way more evil than the catholic church and God still told his people to obey him. Many governments are way more evil than the Catholic church, but Romans 13:1 still commands us to obey them. That's like saying "God is not going to tell you to obey lies and corruption, therefore we don't have to obey the US government". That's not what the word of God says.

I've made my argument very clear, but you keep ignoring the fact that the Bible tells us to obey all authority as long as it doesn't contradict the word of God. So as long their commands don't go against the word of God WE MUST OBEY ALL AUTHORITY. I don't know how to make it any more clear for you, but you are rebelling against God when you rebel against the government, no matter how perverse and evil the government may be. The same goes for the church authority.

 

[NTNT58]

There is no biblical proof in the Bible that Peter was described like a pope we see today. They did not kiss his ring or whatever and neither did he have on long flowing robes where people praised him. Nowhere in the Bible do we see Mary worship, bowing to statues, and praying to dead saints. So seeing this is the case, then you are simply looking at the RCC history and believing it over what the Bible says. That’s what is happening here. You want to be Catholic because their dark practices attract you.

Any person who is truly repulsed by the Catholic Church would not join them anymore than a person would join the Nazi party because it repulses them.

I've provided PLENTY of proof for you and you still haven't addressed a single one. The church obviously corrupted over time, but that is not an excuse to rebel against God.

I've already told you I don't want to be part of the Catholic church so now you're just making strawman arguments by saying I'm "attracted to dark practices". Shame on you.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

These quotes are links back to the original posts.

I said, I quote: “Nobody wants to be under the true authority of God’s Word.” Notice that even in the context I did not specifically address Dino by name. I was speaking more in general terms. If the shoe fit, then by all means. But if you were to go back and look at my post, I never said, “Dino, or you,” etcetera. I also do not like to partake in childish insults of which I have seen in this thread so far. So I was not engaging in any personal or hurtful childish attacks like one would see in highschool. Telling the truth in correction is not the same as that by a long shot.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I've provided PLENTY of proof for you and you still haven't addressed a single one. The church obviously corrupted over time, but that is not an excuse to rebel against God.

I've already told you I don't want to be part of the Catholic church so now you're just making strawman arguments by saying I'm "attracted to dark practices". Shame on you.

But your argument here is not really the thread topic. Also, if I were to try and refute your points, would it truly change your mind? I don’t think it would even if I did refute them. But if you start another thread, and you list your points there again, I may consider in tackling it if you truly want to come out of the Catholic Church. But I am not convinced you want to come out.

Would you submit to Hitler in exterminating the Jews because you are supposed to submit to authority?
I sure hope not. Remember, not even Daniel’s friends obeyed their king when it came to the king enforcing them to partake in idolatry.
But you want to jump right into idolatry despite this witness in Scripture, then be my guest.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I've provided PLENTY of proof for you and you still haven't addressed a single one. The church obviously corrupted over time, but that is not an excuse to rebel against God.

That’s all extra biblical, and not the Word of God.
Remember, faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Faith does not come by hearing RCC church history.

I've already told you I don't want to be part of the Catholic church so now you're just making strawman arguments by saying I'm "attracted to dark practices". Shame on you.

I don’t think so. People who are repulsed enough by darkness will not want to join such darkness. There is something inside a person that is dark that wants to join with darkness. But the Scriptures say, what fellowship does light have with darkness?

 

[NTNT58]

But your argument here is not really the thread topic. Also, if I were to try and refute your points, would it truly change your mind? I don’t think it would even if I did refute them. But if you start another thread, and you list your points there again, I may consider in tackling it if you truly want to come out of the Catholic Church. But I am not convinced you want to come out.

You're being presumptuous. I was against the Catholic church a few months ago, but then I saw more and more proof of their authority, so I changed my mind. The only one that needs to come out is you. Come out from rebelling against God.

Would you submit to Hitler in exterminating the Jews because you are supposed to submit to authority?
I sure hope not. Remember, not even Daniel’s friends obeyed their king when it came to the king enforcing them to partake in idolatry.
But you want to jump right into idolatry despite this witness in Scripture, then be my guest.

Again... does exterminating the Jews go against the word of God???! Does partaking in idolatry go against the word of God??!

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Again, you're missing the point. The king of Babylon was way more evil than the catholic church and God still told his people to obey him. Many governments are way more evil than the Catholic church, but Romans 13:1 still commands us to obey them. That's like saying "God is not going to tell you to obey lies and corruption, therefore we don't have to obey the US government". That's not what the word of God says.

We submit to the governing authorities only if they are not in conflict with God’s laws.
Obedience to an apostate church is not the same as obedience to the civil laws of a government (That does not conflict with the Bible).

I've made my argument very clear, but you keep ignoring the fact that the Bible tells us to obey all authority as long as it doesn't contradict the word of God. So as long their commands don't go against the word of God WE MUST OBEY ALL AUTHORITY. I don't know how to make it any more clear for you, but you are rebelling against God when you rebel against the government, no matter how perverse and evil the government may be. The same goes for the church authority.

So how exactly are you to obey in the Catholic Church? Pretty much most of it is corrupt. Idolatry, praying to the dead, and Mary worship are clearly heresy. Are you talking about maybe the civil laws of that country of the Vatican like obeying the traffic laws?

 

[NTNT58]

That’s all extra biblical, and not the Word of God

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I literaly gave you DOZENS of verse numbers!!!

I don’t think so. People who are repulsed enough by darkness will not want to join such darkness. There is something inside a person that is dark that wants to join with darkness. But the Scriptures say, what fellowship does light have with darkness?

How many times do I have to tell you... I don't want to be part of the Catholic Church!

Bible commands you to obey all authority. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. I'm repulsed by the government as well, but you don't see me breaking laws.

 

[NTNT58]

We submit to the governing authorities only if they are not in conflict with God’s laws.
Obedience to an apostate church is not the same as obedience to the civil laws of a government (That does not conflict with the Bible).



So how exactly are you to obey in the Catholic Church? Pretty much most of it is corrupt. Idolatry, praying to the dead, and Mary worship are clearly heresy. Are you talking about maybe the civil laws of that country of the Vatican like obeying the traffic laws?

Peter clearly had special authority, I've sent you plenty of verses that confirm it. That means the protestants are the apostate churches, not Catholics.

You obey the church the same way Jesus told everyone to obey the Pharisees, you do everything they tell you as long as it doesn't contradict the word of God.