Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

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tourist

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If by law you mean the 10 commandments, no, the law has been done away without. Without the law there would be no knowledge of sin.
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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If you were really concerned about thread interruption, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
See?
I am not concerned you were. Right here..
Jesus didn't preach "an eye for an eye". Is that what you were referring to?
Not sure how you got off on a different subject here. This isn't a political thread.
Which is the root of our dialog presently.
Where are your morals and sense of justice?
Don't you believe in standing up for what is right?
Or only defending your Sabbatarian buddies. Regardless of their bad behavior.
I counted five or six instances of clear abuse. You call it "Censoring".
And then you call the abuser a "gentleman". ???
Sounds like thuggery. (See?) Gangster talk.
Embankment was the gentleman to which I was speaking. I don't know him from Adam in relation to what he believes. And for your information I have on several occasions talked to Studyman in regards to his responding in like to the ill manner that is prevalent here. And by the way; Sabbatarian? I am a Christian standing in the power and might of Christ through Christ. Your negatively intended label is of the same ill manner to which you were censoring Studyman for....
 

mailmandan

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Very good; that is correct. The rest of Christ; the Gospel they did not enter due to unbelief. Stiff necked hardhearted disobedience.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Context is clear; but if that is not enough the very word translated Unbelief in chapter 3 and 4 of Hebrews also holds true to this.

It was not that they did not believe. They believed because GOD was physically manifesting HIMSELF to them continuously coming out of Egypt and through the wilderness for 40 years. As the BDAG puts forth in their Lexicon It was an "unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions" This is the, "lack of belief, unbelief" to which Hebrews speaks.


However....
Command? In Hebrews 4:9,10 It is not being spoken as a command but as a matter of fact. The command is found is found earlier in the chapter. Here follow along please.



For we which have believed do enter into rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, Christ's rest; the Gospel), as HE said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down,Christ's rest; the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (GOD’S rest; the Gospel has been available since the creation of the world) For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai in the giving of the Commandments) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (AGAIN HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel).



A few things need being mentioned in from these verses. The REST mentioned is referring to the GOSPEL. This brought to light in verse TWO. The giving (speaking) of The Seventh Day and GOD resting on it. And the Seventh Day being brought up again (HE speaks) IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). And incidentally Two separate things are being mentioned. The Rest in which is the GOSPEL and the forth Commandment; Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. Also if I may verse four is rather specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.

Here listen to a more direct translation.

Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.

It is IN THE day; the seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. And in that day; the seventh HE rested from all HIS works.



Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment



You glossed right over the definition of the word. Vines as do most cites the definition first. He cites, "a Sabbath-keeping" then goes on to cite the RV's translation, "a Sabbath rest" and then proceeds to show what they have in their marginal notes, "a keeping of a Sabbath". He does this to prove that the difinition that he cited is close to what the translators of the RV thought of the word. So what you have is the definition, references and then commentary.
The commentary is way off. Nothing and I mean nothing in the grammar of the Greek or context even suggests a future rest. Remaineth is present tense, indicative mood; a fact.


Ceases from his own works a s GOD did from HIS in verse 10 is in the Aorist tense.
Most often the Aorist tense is translated past tense by translators. It is not that simple though. Here is an excerpt from the Koine Greek Textbook Vol. 1-4 Greg by Allen Walker.

"The events described by the aorist tense are classified into a number of categories by grammarians. The most common of these include a view of the action as having begun from a certain point ("inceptive aorist"), or having ended at a certain point ("cumulative aorist"), or merely existing at a certain point ("punctiliar aorist"). The categorization of other cases can be found in Greek reference grammars.

The English reader need not concern himself with most of these finer points concerning the aorist tense, since in most cases they cannot be rendered accurately in English translation, being fine points of Greek exegesis only. The common practice of rendering an aorist by a simple English past tense should suffice in most cases."
It is called commentary. Chapter four's Context supports it. Two rests are being mentioned in Hebrews Four. Kataplausis; Christ's rest which is the Gospel. This rest is defined in verse two.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
(Heb 4:2 KJV)

And the second as you know is Sabbatismos; a Sabbath keeping.

So what we have is....
There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (Christ's rest; the Gospel), he also (in addition to that) hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)
The only record we have of GOD ceasing from HIS own work is upon completing Creation. God rested from work on the day, the seventh which HE later called the Sabbath. So we who have entered into Christ's Rest; the Gospel cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS on the Day, the Seventh which is the Sabbath.
The truth still stands in post #375, in spite of your perverted Sabbath gospel, scripture twisting and SDA propaganda
 

lightbearer

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The truth still stands in post #375, in spite of your perverted Sabbath gospel, scripture twisting and SDA propaganda
So you have nothing in relation to the objective facts shared in the post so you responded to but sleights and intended insults?
Wow!

SDA propaganda? I don't post any teachings from any SDA church.

Happy Thanksgiving.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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So you have nothing in relation to the objective facts shared in the post so you responded to but sleights and intended insults?
Wow!

SDA propaganda? I don't post any teachings from any SDA church.

Happy Thanksgiving.
Objective facts? Yeah right. Once again, the truth still stands in post #375, but believe what you want to believe and Happy Thanksgiving.
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Very good; that is correct. The rest of Christ; the Gospel they did not enter due to unbelief. Stiff necked hardhearted disobedience.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Context is clear; but if that is not enough the very word translated Unbelief in chapter 3 and 4 of Hebrews also holds true to this.

It was not that they did not believe. They believed because GOD was physically manifesting HIMSELF to them continuously coming out of Egypt and through the wilderness for 40 years. As the BDAG puts forth in their Lexicon It was an "unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions" This is the, "lack of belief, unbelief" to which Hebrews speaks.


However....
Command? In Hebrews 4:9,10 It is not being spoken as a command but as a matter of fact. The command is found is found earlier in the chapter. Here follow along please.



For we which have believed do enter into rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, Christ's rest; the Gospel), as HE said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down,Christ's rest; the Gospel): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (GOD’S rest; the Gospel has been available since the creation of the world) For HE spake in a certain place (Mt. Sinai in the giving of the Commandments) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this again (AGAIN HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel).



A few things need being mentioned in from these verses. The REST mentioned is referring to the GOSPEL. This brought to light in verse TWO. The giving (speaking) of The Seventh Day and GOD resting on it. And the Seventh Day being brought up again (HE speaks) IF they shall enter into my rest (Katapausis; ceasing down, the Gospel). And incidentally Two separate things are being mentioned. The Rest in which is the GOSPEL and the forth Commandment; Seventh Day which is the Sabbath. Also if I may verse four is rather specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.

Here listen to a more direct translation.

Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.

It is IN THE day; the seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. And in that day; the seventh HE rested from all HIS works.



Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment



You glossed right over the definition of the word. Vines as do most cites the definition first. He cites, "a Sabbath-keeping" then goes on to cite the RV's translation, "a Sabbath rest" and then proceeds to show what they have in their marginal notes, "a keeping of a Sabbath". He does this to prove that the difinition that he cited is close to what the translators of the RV thought of the word. So what you have is the definition, references and then commentary.
The commentary is way off. Nothing and I mean nothing in the grammar of the Greek or context even suggests a future rest. Remaineth is present tense, indicative mood; a fact.


Ceases from his own works a s GOD did from HIS in verse 10 is in the Aorist tense.
Most often the Aorist tense is translated past tense by translators. It is not that simple though. Here is an excerpt from the Koine Greek Textbook Vol. 1-4 Greg by Allen Walker.

"The events described by the aorist tense are classified into a number of categories by grammarians. The most common of these include a view of the action as having begun from a certain point ("inceptive aorist"), or having ended at a certain point ("cumulative aorist"), or merely existing at a certain point ("punctiliar aorist"). The categorization of other cases can be found in Greek reference grammars.

The English reader need not concern himself with most of these finer points concerning the aorist tense, since in most cases they cannot be rendered accurately in English translation, being fine points of Greek exegesis only. The common practice of rendering an aorist by a simple English past tense should suffice in most cases."



It is called commentary. Chapter four's Context supports it. Two rests are being mentioned in Hebrews Four. Kataplausis; Christ's rest which is the Gospel. This rest is defined in verse two.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
(Heb 4:2 KJV)

And the second as you know is Sabbatismos; a Sabbath keeping.

So what we have is....
There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (Christ's rest; the Gospel), he also (in addition to that) hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(Heb 4:9-10)
The only record we have of GOD ceasing from HIS own work is upon completing Creation. God rested from work on the day, the seventh which HE later called the Sabbath. So we who have entered into Christ's Rest; the Gospel cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS on the Day, the Seventh which is the Sabbath.
one more time- the word katapausis does mean Gospel.

it can mean Sabbath, or just plain resting, , also Heaven, or a calming of the winds.

the word for Gospel is evangelio. that word does not even appear in Hebrews.

so, no, as you said of me elsewhere, I do not bring hate.

I just point out you and the other judeaizer's lies and deceit, as I just did here.
 

CharliRenee

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Pau asks, shall we sin more so that grace may abound? gOD FORBID.

Ho can a believer sin at all if the law is no more? Sin is breaking the law.

Some, weak in faith, say that they obey the law in the spirit so they are free of the law.

We are not free of the law unless Jesus Chrsist lied, and He did no. We are free of the curse of the law by the Blood of our blessed and innocent Jesus..
Now if we obey the law in spirit, the law yet exists.

Did Jesus ever teach against obeying the law as it stands after His work that changed how we understand? No!

Jesus also taches He did not destroy the law, only the curse of the law, death.

Anyone here who can read and clames to believe Jesus Christ is free to learn directly from Him, from God, just how we obey God since His blessed and wonderful work..
Agreed completely but but but there is this in Galations 5 ....

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Hey, :0, I just got something that I hadn't gotten before. I had been reading this passage wrong for years. I thought it meant if we are filled with these fruits then there is no need for the law. But boy was I off. I think when we are walking the way He intended, those fruits flourish, that when we don't we grieve and quench the spirit. Hmmmm, now my mind is pondering. His word is so Good.
 

Sketch

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I am not concerned you were. Right here..
Which is the root of our dialog presently.
Embankment was the gentleman to which I was speaking. I don't know him from Adam in relation to what he believes. And for your information I have on several occasions talked to Studyman in regards to his responding in like to the ill manner that is prevalent here. And by the way; Sabbatarian? I am a Christian standing in the power and might of Christ through Christ. Your negatively intended label is of the same ill manner to which you were censoring Studyman for....
Do you not observe the seventh day as a Sabbath?
 

mailmandan

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gb9

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him and I have trough the same thing with the word katapausis at least 3 or 4 times now.

repeating the same lie over and over does not make it true.
 

lightbearer

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one more time- the word katapausis does mean Gospel.
No it means ceasing down; rest


the word for Gospel is evangelio. that word does not even appear in Hebrews.
Correct in a sense. That is the Noun. It means glad tidings; good news, hence it being used of the Gospel. The verb euaggelizo is there and The translators of the KJV did see that euaggelizo should be translated Gospel due to the context. A few other translations due also.

For, indeed, we have had the Gospel preached to us , even as they also; but the word did not profit those hearing it , not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard.
(Heb 4:2 LITV-TSP)

Jubilee Bible 2000
2 For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them, but it did not profit those that heard the word without mixing it with faith.

Complete Apostles Bible
Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had the Gospel preached to us just as those also; but the word which they heard did not profit those, not having been mixed with faith in those having heard it.



NIV NRSV, ISV and others use the definite article "the" in their translations which would show that they thought it was the Good News; the Gospel and not just any good news.

2 ..... the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed


From the BDAG Lexicon which is the go to Lexicon in all your major Seminaries when study Biblical Greek mentions Hebrews 4:2 specifically in relation to the Gospel. It says this...

2 mostly specif. proclaim the divine message of salvation, proclaim the gospel.....

....β. w. a pers. as subj. of one receiving a message of deliverance have good news announced to one (2 Km 18:31; Jo 3:5) of the gospel Mt 11:5; Lk 7:22; Hb 4:2, 6. Of apostles receiving the gospel in behalf of others ἀπό τινος fr. someone 1 Cl 42:1.—B. 1478. DELG s.v. ἄγγελος. M-M. EDNT. TW. Spicq....

So why would the translators of the KJV and Bauer the Scholar who penned the BDAG lexicon think that euangelizo should be translated Gospel in Hebrews 4:2. Context is why.

1)Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

HIS rest is being specific. It is GOD'S Rest; salvation; the Gospel. The word entering implies something that is happening. The Israelites in the wilderness could not enter HIS Rest due to their unbelief. which was due to their willful sinning. Heb 3:17 But we can enter this same rest (HIS Rest) the Gospel as long as we do not follow after their same course of unbelief; willful sinning.

2)For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


3)For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Do Enter is present tense. It is a done deal. The reality and what makes a Christian a Christian. Resting in GOD and allowing Christ to work through them.

The works of This Rest; the Gospel has been available since the foundation of the world.

4)For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

GOD rested from all HIS Works and that would include what was needed for salvation according to context in relation to verse three when the Holy Spirit mentioned, "although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." Also it must be mentioned again that Verse four is rather specific with it's use of definite articles in the Greek.

Here listen to a more direct translation.

Heb 4:4 ....And rested the GOD in the day; the seventh from all the works of HIM.

It is IN THE day; the seventh in which HE spoke about on Mt Sinia. And in that day; the seventh HE rested from all HIS works.



Couple that with the fact Heb 4:5 says And in this again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest. We have repeating of the forth commandment


5)And in this place again (HE SPEAKS), If they shall enter into my rest.

Two things here. He speaks again of the Day, the Seventh if they shall enter into MY Rest; the Gospel. He speaks again of the Sabbath for those whom enter into HIS Rest which is the Gospel.

6)Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Salvation; the Gospel was available to whom it was first preached but they refused it due to their hardhearted stiff necked rebellion; willful sinning.
Now the Holy Spirit quotes Himself in Psalms as a call to repentance in verses 7,8.
Verse 7 use of day is not being spoken of in relation to the day, the seventh, the Sabbath. It is a call to repentance for the here and now: for all time; today. Today harden not your heart as in the day of provocation. Accept GOD's rest; the Gospel. Joshua did not and could not give them the Salvation that was available to them for their taking by leading them into the promise land. True Salvation which is in GOD; Christ Jesus was independent to that. But the Land flowing with milk and honey longevity was dependent on them resting in GOD. Which they had not done as a whole.

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest (salvation, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

The following verse 9 and 10 are being spoken in relation to verse 4 and 5. The Day the Seventh; the Sabbath. That is why the Holy Spirit uses the word Sabbatismos which means "Sabbath keeping" rather than using the word which He had been using for rest.

9)There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God.

10)For he that is entered into his rest (Christ's rest; the Gospel), he also (in addition to that) hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The only record we have of GOD ceasing from HIS own work is upon completing Creation. God rested from work on the day, the seventh which HE later called the Sabbath. So we who have entered into Christ's Rest; the Gospel cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS on the Day, the Seventh which is the Sabbath.


(Heb 4:1-10)



so, no, as you said of me elsewhere, I do not bring hate.
Yes you or at the very least your words do.

I just point out you and the other judeaizer's lies and deceit, as I just did here.
You labeled me by calling me a name. And you implied I am a liar and deceitful. Let GOD be the Judge. This is hate speech and does nothing in adding to our discussion. At the worst case scenario it brings discord and ruins any possibility of one even listening to a word you might have to say that would be true and edifying when and if they were the one mistakenly confused in something they are sharing.
 

gb9

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so, you act like you are defining the word katapausis as the Gospel , then, when pointed out that it does not, you agree, as if you did not try to pass it off like it did.

so, then, ( predictably ) your next play is " the translations are wrong ".

so, you see, here is the thing- I can be honest , and if I am wrong, I admit it. in another thread, studyman, who I dislike much more than I dislike you, pointed out some I said something wrong. I looked, and in that case, I told him I was in error, which I was.

why did I do that? because I care about truth and honesty. and since I accept the truth that the only thing it takes to be saved is faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, I am NOT tying to push a religious system.

you and studyman and the other judeaizrers ARE trying to push a religious system, your fist loyalty is to that system, not to truth and honesty. you count on your system to save you, so, you have to defend it at all costs.

I say the simple truth - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
 

Grandpa

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Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If we are to believe the judaizers and legalists then entering into Rest is only on saturdays.

But in Galatians we are told that the law is not of Faith.

So if someone is resting on Saturday they are not doing it by faith, they are doing it because the law says to.

If we have ceased from our work, as God did from His, then we aren't resting only on Saturdays. We are continually resting from all of our work at trying to be Righteous before God.

We aren't looking to the law to prove our righteousness. Because if we do that then we make the Gospel about working at the law and not about Faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How can we be given rest from our work at the law if we must work at the law in order to enter Rest????????

This is a bit of circular reasoning in which there is no way out for the judaizer and legalist. There is no such thing as rest from our work at the law for these poor souls.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Well that surely is not Good News. At least not for the legalist and judaizer...
 

lightbearer

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Agreed completely but but but there is this in Galations 5 ....

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Hey, :0, I just got something that I hadn't gotten before. I had been reading this passage wrong for years. I thought it meant if we are filled with these fruits then there is no need for the law. But boy was I off. I think when we are walking the way He intended, those fruits flourish, that when we don't we grieve and quench the spirit. Hmmmm, now my mind is pondering. His word is so Good.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How can we be given rest from our work at the law if we must work at the law in order to enter Rest????????

This is a bit of circular reasoning in which there is no way out for the judaizer and legalist. There is no such thing as rest from our work at the law for these poor souls.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Galatians must be read in context.
The Spirit saith in Gal 2:16,3:27, 2:20....Knowing that a man is not made righteous by works of law, but that it is through the faith of Jesus Christ even we have believed into Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. For we that have been baptized (immersed into Christ have put on Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now life in the flesh we live by the FAITH OF the Son of GOD ….

What is meant by the Faith of the Son of GOD?

For God It was never about doing the written law. His intent in us has always been the Faith that worketh by love through the heart; who we are through HIM. Because in HIM and only through HIM is life. The following text show the connection between the Old Testament and New. The verses in Romans 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14; Hebrews 8:10,11; Jeremiah 31:33 are all speaking of GOD's gift of enabling us through HIS Spirit to be as HE would have us be. People of Faith through Christ. Please notice that this gift which is the Good News; the Gospel was availed to us from the beginning of Moses ministry if not even from the time of the fall in Eden. Romans paraphrasing the text found in Deut. Prove this. So once again we share, let's walk in the Faith.



For GOD has said, "Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ), (the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Law; HIS Commandments) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments, HIS Law manifested in the flesh, our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach. And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD (CHRIST) in you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will) in us the hope of Glory. For without this faith it is impossible to please GOD.



Please notice the connections that are being made in the text above. Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be; HIS Commandments are inter changeable in the text above. And mind you this work in our hearts is the Gospel and is the word of faith in which we speak. This theme is found throughout the New Testament and it is what Galatians speaks.

The Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: called us into the grace of Christ To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen And they glorified God in me. (Gal 1:3-4,5, 15,16,23,24; 2:15-20 KJV)





Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If we are to believe the judaizers and legalists then entering into Rest is only on saturdays.

But in Galatians we are told that the law is not of Faith.
No one said what you posted here. Well nothing in any of the posts I posted does.

9)There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God.

10)For he that is entered into his rest (Christ's rest; the Gospel), he also (In other words in addition to that) hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The only record we have of GOD ceasing from HIS own work is upon completing Creation. God ceased from work on the day, the seventh which HE later called the Sabbath. So we who have entered into Christ's Rest; the Gospel also in addition to that cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS on the Day, the Seventh which is the Sabbath.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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so, you act like you are defining the word katapausis as the Gospel , then, when pointed out that it does not, you agree, as if you did not try to pass it off like it did.

so, then, ( predictably ) your next play is " the translations are wrong ".

so, you see, here is the thing- I can be honest , and if I am wrong, I admit it. in another thread, studyman, who I dislike much more than I dislike you, pointed out some I said something wrong. I looked, and in that case, I told him I was in error, which I was.

why did I do that? because I care about truth and honesty. and since I accept the truth that the only thing it takes to be saved is faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, I am NOT tying to push a religious system.

you and studyman and the other judeaizrers ARE trying to push a religious system, your fist loyalty is to that system, not to truth and honesty. you count on your system to save you, so, you have to defend it at all costs.

I say the simple truth - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
So in other words you have no real response but accusations and innuendos about people.
And to add to that you tell people that you dislike them, when as a Christian you are suppose to treat them with Love because you are suppose to be of LOVE. Hateful words indeed!

Worse yet someone else who claims Christ thought that your post was useful. Sad.....
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If we are to believe the judaizers and legalists then entering into Rest is only on saturdays.

But in Galatians we are told that the law is not of Faith.

So if someone is resting on Saturday they are not doing it by faith, they are doing it because the law says to.

If we have ceased from our work, as God did from His, then we aren't resting only on Saturdays. We are continually resting from all of our work at trying to be Righteous before God.

We aren't looking to the law to prove our righteousness. Because if we do that then we make the Gospel about working at the law and not about Faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How can we be given rest from our work at the law if we must work at the law in order to enter Rest????????

This is a bit of circular reasoning in which there is no way out for the judaizer and legalist. There is no such thing as rest from our work at the law for these poor souls.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Well that surely is not Good News. At least not for the legalist and judaizer...
Amen Grandpa and well said! (y) Hebrews was written to the early Jewish converts to Christianity. Prior to becoming Christians, these converts had spent their entire lives practicing Jewish customs. They were contending with arguments that they should give up Christianity and return to their Jewish roots. That sounds familiar today. :unsure:

In Hebrews 3:12, the writer of Hebrews tells these Hebrews to beware, lest there be in any of them an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, then verse 19 says that the children of Israel didn’t enter God’s rest because of unbelief. Verse 18 mentions their disobedience (which was a manifestation of their unbelief), but verse 19 says it was their unbelief which prevented them from entering God’s rest.

In Jude 1:5, we read that the Lord delivered His people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. God had revealed Himself to these Israelites and chosen them as His people, but that DOES NOT mean they were ALL saved. During their wandering, the children of Israel kept the weekly Sabbath. The penalty for Sabbath breaking was death! (Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Numbers 15:32-36)

Yet, despite their Sabbath keeping, the children of Israel never managed to enter God’s rest. God’s rest, which is being spoken about here, is in the context of “Today.” Something else other than the weekly Sabbath is being spoken about as “God’s rest” here. In Hebrews 4:9, this Sabbath rest "sabbatismos" is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. *Entering His rest involves the gospel message and belief and NOT law keeping. (Hebrews 4:2-3; Romans 1:16; 10:1-4; 1 Corinthians 1:21).

The Bible makes it clear that we are ALL sinners (Romans 3:10). It's the law which points this out to us (Romans 3:20). If we could perfectly obey the law, then we would be justified by the law, yet we have ALL fallen short (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10). By our nature, we are objects of wrath (Ephesians 2:3). There is absolutely nothing we can do to “earn” our way to heaven, yet misguided teachers of the law continue to pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." :cautious:

The law, which we have all broken, points us toward a solution to the sin problem (Galatians 3:19-25). Jesus Christ came and lived a perfect life on our behalf and fulfilled the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:27, 44-45, Romans 3:21-28). He is our perfect substitute (2 Corinthians 5:21). If we recognize our complete inability to save ourselves, repent and believe/trust in Jesus to save us (instead of our own self righteous works system), then we will be saved! (John 3:16-18; Acts 16:31; 20:21; Romans 4:4-5, 10:4; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9). Praise the Lord! Now that is good news! :)

With the commanded restrictions placed on Sabbath keeping, the Israelites had to “work” at not breaking the Sabbath commands (Exodus 35:3; 16:29; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5) So, while it was a day of rest, it was also a rest that had to be worked at to keep. If working at it was required, was it really still rest? God gave the weekly Sabbath to the Israelites as a sign between God and Israel (Exodus 31:16-17) to remember that they were slaves in Egypt and the Lord brought them out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm (Deuteronomy 5:15).

The Judaizers and legalists need to stop trying to obtain salvation through law keeping and let God do the saving! Today we rest fully in the saving work of Jesus Christ. We do not “work” for our salvation! The weekly Sabbath was a “shadow” pointing forward to Jesus, the substance (Colossians 2:16-17). Praise God that we can rest fully in assurance of our salvation through Jesus Christ! :D
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Worse yet someone else who claims Christ thought that your post was useful. Sad.....
I say the simple truth - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
Nothing sad or non-useful about the TRUTH found in Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..:D

What is sad is rejecting Paul's message, twisting the scriptures and teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." :(
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If we are to believe the judaizers and legalists then entering into Rest is only on saturdays.

But in Galatians we are told that the law is not of Faith.

So if someone is resting on Saturday they are not doing it by faith, they are doing it because the law says to.

If we have ceased from our work, as God did from His, then we aren't resting only on Saturdays. We are continually resting from all of our work at trying to be Righteous before God.

We aren't looking to the law to prove our righteousness. Because if we do that then we make the Gospel about working at the law and not about Faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

How can we be given rest from our work at the law if we must work at the law in order to enter Rest????????

This is a bit of circular reasoning in which there is no way out for the judaizer and legalist. There is no such thing as rest from our work at the law for these poor souls.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Well that surely is not Good News. At least not for the legalist and judaizer...
Amen, if only they could get this simple truth
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
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HBG. Pa. USA
Nothing sad or non-useful about the TRUTH found in Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..

What is sad is rejecting Paul's message, twisting the scriptures and teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
Amen that is a fact!
However this is sad and does nothing in showing the Love of Christ
so, you act like you are defining the word katapausis as the Gospel , then, when pointed out that it does not, you agree, as if you did not try to pass it off like it did.

so, then, ( predictably ) your next play is " the translations are wrong ".

so, you see, here is the thing- I can be honest , and if I am wrong, I admit it. in another thread, studyman, who I dislike much more than I dislike you, pointed out some I said something wrong. I looked, and in that case, I told him I was in error, which I was.

why did I do that? because I care about truth and honesty. and since I accept the truth that the only thing it takes to be saved is faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, I am NOT tying to push a religious system.

you and studyman and the other judeaizrers ARE trying to push a religious system, your fist loyalty is to that system, not to truth and honesty. you count on your system to save you, so, you have to defend it at all costs.
.
So that is why it was posted; to quote, "So in other words you have no real response but accusations and innuendos about people.
And to add to that you tell people that you dislike them, when as a Christian you are suppose to treat them with Love because you are suppose to be of LOVE. Hateful words indeed!

Worse yet someone else who claims Christ thought that your post was useful. Sad..... "

And another issue here is the attempt to excuse and ignore such unloving behavior from your brother; very unChrist like also.