Has the pre trib rapture belief alienated a whole group of people against each other

[GaryA]

I was raised in it.

I was raised in it, too. ("from birth")

However, during my teenage years, I started to see that some of the things I had been taught were not actually in scripture. And, it did not take me very long to get away from those things - including the 'pre-trib' view.

It can be quite difficult being in the minority that does not believe in the 'pre-trib' view. It certainly was back then...

 

[Beckie]

From birth yup Dad was in Bible School when i was born...

 

[GaryA]

If these two ideas were not biblical you would not have so many Bible scholars and Christians accepting them.

In reality, whether something is true or not does not make the difference - what "counts" in the final result is that people [believe they] learn "truth" from 'authority' - they soak it up like a sponge and retain it (usually) for the rest of their lives (or for as long as they can remember it).

When something they have learned that they believe is 'truth' is challenged - "the mind goes nuts" - and, they cannot handle it.

Only the mind that understands that it has been lied to all of its life - and sincerely seeks the truth - can handle it appropriately.

~

There is a great deal of truth in this statement:

"Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they have been taught." - (Author Unknown)

 

[TabinRivCA]

In reality, whether something is true or not does not make the difference - what "counts" in the final result is that people [believe they] learn "truth" from 'authority' - they soak it up like a sponge and retain it (usually) for the rest of their lives (or for as long as they can remember it).

When something they have learned that they believe is 'truth' is challenged - "the mind goes nuts" - and, they cannot handle it.

Only the mind that understands that it has been lied to all of its life - and sincerely seeks the truth - can handle it appropriately.

~

There is a great deal of truth in this statement:

"Truth is available only to those who have the courage to question whatever they have been taught." - (Author Unknown)

To not believe the pre-trib view, God's harshest wrath will be not only poured upon the unsaved but His saved children as well, this is out of God's Fatherly being.. Another thing, when the anti-Christ steps in, if the Body of Christ is still here, some of us would easily discern his falsity and come against him telling the world. Also who is the 'Restrainer' in 2 Thess 2:6-8 that holds back the return of the anti-Christ?
6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

 

[Magenta]

That is not what you have shown to me,

Not me, either. In fact, since the other is a flat earther, I once asked him a legitimate question earnestly hoping for
a feasible explanation/answer, and all I got was a diatribe full of erroneous assumptions and false accusations.
In fact, his response to my sincere question was so hateful, I have had him on ignore ever since.

I said a few days ago up thread, its not a salvation issue, and with this post, I will depart this forum and return to my own.

God bless all!

I hope you stick around .

 

[GaryA]

To not believe the pre-trib view, God's harshest wrath will be not only poured upon the unsaved but His saved children as well, this is out of God's Fatherly being..

Not true. You are misunderstanding what-is-and-is-not 'Wrath of God'.

Another thing, when the anti-Christ steps in, if the Body of Christ is still here, some of us would easily discern his falsity and come against him telling the world.

- and [no-doubt] be beheaded for not worshipping the beast.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Not true. You are misunderstanding what-is-and-is-not 'Wrath of God'.


- and [no-doubt] be beheaded for not worshipping the beast.

Ok, please tell me what is your version of the wrath of God...... and are you saying the Body of Christ(all the believers on earth under the anointing) are weaker than the anti-Christ, assuming they are here?
I see the Church getting higher with the anointing doing things greater than Jesus, as He said we would. I don't see the anti-Christ defeating the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Blade]

Steve Martin in one of his early movies talking to lol his wife (can we come back from la la land now). A tad strong for what I want to say but it came to mind. So can we talk about Scripture with out adding or taking anything away? Christ found me over 50 years ago so I am very very.. well that's as far as I can go haha.

Its like take any food we all try to put something on it or mixed in with it and then eat it. I find no matter what I tried to say just came out like I am preaching my own belief. That right there I read hear what others say and unless I know what is written and still I can be wrong I always say "Father if I got it wrong change me first".

For me when caught up (rapture) gets talked about there is only one of the three that "Christians" hmm don't like? Hmm attack, make fun of, laugh at?. I know a man of God.. really wise man yet in a video big smile saying "who has read the bible and come away with pre tribulation?" See for him that view was based on what your Church told you. I can see how and understand that. Yet I replied "here I am". Same kind of thing when it comes to the sweet holy Spirit being filled with spirit. This other man of God well known said it does not happen any more like it did in the bible. Yet I was asked if I wanted the holy Spirit said yes they prayed said I got it.. I got to sit down and tongues just came out. Exactly to a T what happened in the bible. Here I am.

So my thinking is ... how here has more information about Christ coming in the clouds other then that bible and org texts you know things like this. I know since Christ left up to this very day there is not one person that prayed fasted and asked the Father of our lord Jesus Christ WHEN pre mid or post? Yeah over 2 thousand years later He has still never told anyone.

So in this thread when someone makes some bold statement about WHEN He is coming not one backed it up with scripture. No.. to make your view work you must add to that food "This is what that word really means, this is what Christ was really saying". I have books on the org Hebrew and Greek. I can't be the only one that has noticed how they all don't agree So which one are we running with to make are statement stand? I just want to be on the same page no offense.

So for me if I take only what He said.. He went back to His Fathers house to make me a home and will come back and get me/receive me unto Him self so where He is I will be. I know where He is..He is seated at the right hand of the Father so unless He lied .. I don't think so.. at some point I will be where He is. It is no where He said where I am He will be. I then notice Paul that only said what the sweet holy Sprit said when God showed Him "caught up" said "we which remain". He didn't say those or they but put himself in it odd.

Oh there is soooo much more as in the OT almost none touch...that is odd since were talking about Christ coming back. So I was not promised tomorrow so I like the prophet gone home now once said "I am post trib BUT if Christ comes pre I am ready now". That was someone that knew the word of God and what was not written anywhere. I can boldly say if I don't believe am not watching and He comes now.. there is no scripture saying ALL WILL GO. It would be very foolish for me to take a stand in faith based on what some other believer told me. No one can prove pre mid or post with out twisting the word with out leaving out other scriptures. Ever notice how short the posts are for any of this? We can post pages based only on the OT which ... that speaks volumes of ..no offense on what we truly know.

Just take Him at His word ...don't believe a word I say. I just watch know He is coming now. I am always watching... some doubt are not watching and feel free to tell me when Christ ever went against your will? Just be ready now and stay out of sin. Speak word of life to all.. give the body HOPE and word HE IS COMING FOR YOU...take comfort in that. Read Thess again.. don't think just believe.. ask Him to open your eyes.. but be willing to be wrong or He will say nothing.. ASK HIM if you doubt me.. but don't listen to me

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

To not believe the pre-trib view, God's harshest wrath will be not only poured upon the unsaved but His saved children as well, this is out of God's Fatherly being.. Another thing, when the anti-Christ steps in, if the Body of Christ is still here, some of us would easily discern his falsity and come against him telling the world. Also who is the 'Restrainer' in 2 Thess 2:6-8 that holds back the return of the anti-Christ?
6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Who's the Restrainer?

❧

 

[AndyC]

Sorry @Beckie - I didn't mean to chase him off - I was really hoping to see how your discussion with him turned out...

Ok, one last post (I think).

No, you or anyone did not chase me out. I have been a member of end times forums for over a decade, and I have learned there will be occasions when agreements/shared views, can not be reached. I know from reading your posts we wont agree on most anything, so why continue? I do believe that someday soon, and sooner than many believe, we will be clothed in white, and we can compare notes on what we believed in our former life, in our old flesh bodies. Then again, we will have the answers at that time, so maybe at the banquet, we can sit next to each other and have a good laugh.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Ok, one last post (I think).

No, you or anyone did not chase me out. I have been a member of end times forums for over a decade, and I have learned there will be occasions when agreements/shared views, can not be reached. I know from reading your posts we wont agree on most anything, so why continue? I do believe that someday soon, and sooner than many believe, we will be clothed in white, and we can compare notes on what we believed in our former life, in our old flesh bodies. Then again, we will have the answers at that time, so maybe at the banquet, we can sit next to each other and have a good laugh.

Well, on Rapture Forums you're not even allowed to post any other view than pre-trib. Sounds like a fun place.

Rule 15:

"[15] No promotion of Mid, Post Tribulation, Prewrath, Partial Rapture, Preterism, or Replacement theology."

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

it wont matter to me, I will be in heaven along with all the other believers well before the beast hits the scene.

Why is The Beast given authority to overcome the saints, after they have been evacuated to heaven?
Isn't it more likely he would be celebrating because (according to pretrib) his opposition on earth has been removed?

Please stop allowing yourself to be deceived by pretribulation teachers. Study The Bible.

Paul told the church that our gathering would not come until AFTER the man of lawlessness has been revealed. (2 Thess 2)
Jesus said our gathering would be AFTER the tribulation of those days. (Matt 24)


Matt 24: 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Rev 13:10
If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.


Rev 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Dan 7:21~
As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgement was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:25
25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in
times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

 

[AndyC]

Not me, either. In fact, since the other is a flat earther, I once asked him a legitimate question earnestly hoping for
a feasible explanation/answer, and all I got was a diatribe full of erroneous assumptions and false accusations.
In fact, his response to my sincere question was so hateful, I have had him on ignore ever since.

I hope you stick around .

What? Seriously or are you joking that a member actually believes the earth is flat?

 

[Magenta]

What? Seriously or are you joking that a member actually believes the earth is flat?

We have a number of flat earthers here. They are dead serious about how all the
rest y'all (that includes me) have been deceived to believe the earth is spherical.

 

[AndyC]

We have a number of flat earthers here. They are dead serious about how all the
rest y'all (that includes me) have been deceived to believe the earth is spherical.

Shocking, but not surprising. With freedom, free will, comes free choices.

 

[Evmur]

From this video it looks like Christians who don't believe in a pre trib rapture are also seen as no good 😟

Well it shouldn't I still love bro Oy. some of my favourite preachers have been Pre-Trib.

 

[Evmur]

We have a number of flat earthers here. They are dead serious about how all the
rest y'all (that includes me) have been deceived to believe the earth is spherical.

... I thought it was round []

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

People are NOT going to know that billions of Christians have gone. How many people will know if YOU had been taken? Only a few. And if many so called believers are not eagerly awaiting the Lord they will not be ready. Plus there will be the war in the mountains of Israel where God deals with the northern army. So people will be glued to their T.V. etc

There are many people missing daily and moving house and being killed, that some believers not there will not be a big thing. Families may only think they had gone on a holiday or are just missing.

The dead in Christ will rise first. The resurrection is the real focus of prophecy.


Concerning that northern army;

20 The fish of the sea and the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the field and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the people who are on the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence.

And the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Lord God. Every man's sword will be against his brother.

22 With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him, and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples who are with him torrential rains and hailstones, fire and sulfur.

23 So I will show my greatness and my holiness and make myself known in the eyes of many nations.
Then they will know that I am the Lord.
Ez 38

No secret return exists in scripture.

5 It is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment that you will be counted worthy of God’s kingdom, for which you also are suffering,
6 since it is just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us. This will take place at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels, 8 when he takes vengeance with flaming fire on those who don’t know God and on those who don’t obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 2 Thess 2

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Matt 24

 

[Evmur]

I don't think the pretribulational view itself is the problem.
It's the controlled narrative and attempted prohibition of all other views. Pretribulatioism enjoys a strong institutional bias.

... I do believe the devil has an interest in propagating it.

 

[Evmur]

When the rapture happens, all the Christians will be removed. Many who thought they were Christians, such as those belonging to a false religion and trusting and having in faith in someone other than Jesus, will still be here. Only those who are saved by the free gift of salvation, repented and confessed Jesus as their Savior will be taken.

Thankfully, even those left behind will still have a chance for salvation, as the book of Revelation clearly states many will come to faith during the 7 year tribulation. Sadly, it will be a hard road for the new tribulation saints, as many will die a horrible death, but still end up with Jesus for eternity.

explain why those who come to believe after the rapture will die a horrible death .