Has the second coming occurred already?

[ProphetExcalibur]

We know when Paul wrote his epistles, that’s not what’s being brought into question. I was using those as examples.

Christ has power over Satan and by that same power we as individuals came overcome. Since Satan has not been bound up yet, the Earth is still his dominion. Just look at how this creation still conducts itself.

God’s Kingdom reigns in the hearts of men, but a time will come when a physical kingdom will rule with truth, justice, and peace. This current Earth is not that.

Okay breath!

It's been aiming towards that for 2000 years, right!

Have you not read in Romans 16:20 where Paul says to them that.... that Satan's Head would be crushed shortly.... This was referring to the 'resurrection of the dead' ........

Do you not understand that all the faithful of old covenant Israel was in sheol except a few?

The resurrection of the dead was the crushing of Satan's authority or headship over the earth.

Satan is a powerful creature, he was a coregent with God before he fell. But he's running out of kingdoms and places to hide.

 

[Aerials1978]

Okay breath!

It's been aiming towards that for 2000 years, right!

Have you not read in Romans 16:20 where Paul says to them that.... that Satan's Head would be crushed shortly.... This was referring to the 'resurrection of the dead' ........

Do you not understand that all the faithful of old covenant Israel was in sheol except a few?

The resurrection of the dead was the crushing of Satan's authority or headship over the earth.

Satan is a powerful creature, he was a coregent with God before he fell. But he's running out of kingdoms and places to hide.

 

[p_rehbein]

No it has not. How can I be so sure? Because I'm STILL HERE.

 

[Aerials1978]

What do you mean breathe? We are having a simple discourse. No one is getting excited here.

To understand that verse you have to go back to verses 17-19 and the trouble that was brewing in the Roman Church:

17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil

Satan was influencing the Church by deception. Paul was addressing this and how to overcome that. Surly you cannot concluded that with all the evil in this world that Lucifer is not very much active and still has authority? When will the new Heaven and new Earth come about.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

For a prophet you are THOROUGHLY CONFUSED.

The context makes it clear that Paul was speaking about the New Birth and its impact on the one who has been converted. He or she becomes a new creature in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. Study the conversion of Saul to Paul. He was preaching Christ within days of his conversion.

However. the Second Coming of Christ is still in the future, but it may not be too far away. As to the old heaven and earth, here is what has not happened and will happen just before the Second Coming -- there will be CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall [1] the sun be darkened, and [2] the moon shall not give her light, and [3] the stars shall fall from heaven, and [4] the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Mt 24:29,30) Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

I know brother i get that all the time, dazed and confused! But you are great and mighty!! Right?!

But there is no such creature as a 21st century rapture!

Are you so smart that you've out smarted God?? Paul said... the dead in Christ shall rise...then we or us (meaning himself) who are alive and remain shall be caught up with them...

The dead in Christ was in sheol, those who were alive and remain were the rest of the faithful of old covenant Israel who had not died yet! That's who was to be raptured, or caught up!!! That's why Paul, made the statement in Rom ch 11 ...all Israel will be saved...

The blotting out of the sun, moon and the stars, was the end of the old creation in Adam.

Love your zeal bro TKS for the kind words!!!

 

[JaumeJ]

I've happened on sites that state that the GT described in the book of Matthew chapter 24 is Jesus speaking of the Tribulation described there as a past event. Which is why he is answering the Disciples questions about the event.
I said in a different thread that I'm starting to think that the Bible is arranged to support an either or understanding of most any Apologetics topic. And in this age with how things are now, immorality given license, etc... I can see how some would think we're in the Tribulation period. God doesn't count time as we do, therefore seven years could be counted as He counts time.

In the Word oft times God will give prophecy in the past tense as an affirmation that it is a sure thing not to be changed.

 

[Aerials1978]

I know brother i get that all the time, dazed and confused! But you are great and mighty!! Right?!

But there is no such creature as a 21st century rapture!

Are you so smart that you've out smarted God?? Paul said... the dead in Christ shall rise...then we or us (meaning himself) who are alive and remain shall be caught up with them...

The dead in Christ was in sheol, those who were alive and remain were the rest of the faithful of old covenant Israel who had not died yet! That's who was to be raptured, or caught up!!! That's why Paul, made the statement in Rom ch 11 ...all Israel will be saved...

The blotting out of the sun, moon and the stars, was the end of the old creation in Adam.

Love your zeal bro TKS for the kind words!!!

Another poster here who also adheres to preterism said that Israel was Babylon described in Rev 17. You’re sayin Israel will be saved. Who’s is correct in their assertions?

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

What do you mean breathe? We are having a simple discourse. No one is getting excited here.

To understand that verse you have to go back to verses 17-19 and the trouble that was brewing in the Roman Church:

17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil

Satan was influencing the Church by deception. Paul was addressing this and how to overcome that. Surly you cannot concluded that with all the evil in this world that Lucifer is not very much active and still has authority? When will the new Heaven and new Earth come about.

Hey bro up way past my bedtime, Loved chatting with you, you're on a good course as far as I can tell?! Put all these things on a shelf and keep pondering them! Thanks for sharing!!

 

[Aerials1978]

Hey bro up way past my bedtime, Loved chatting with you, you're on a good course as far as I can tell?! Put all these things on a shelf and keep pondering them! Thanks for sharing!!

Ok

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Another poster here who also adheres to preterism said that Israel was Babylon described in Rev 17. You’re sayin Israel will be saved. Who’s is correct in their assertions?

I didn't understand what you are saying?

 

[Aerials1978]

I didn't understand what you are saying?

Never mind.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Another poster here who also adheres to preterism said that Israel was Babylon described in Rev 17. You’re sayin Israel will be saved. Who’s is correct in their assertions?

O! I get it! There is no contradiction; both assertions are correct! I'm sorry, so tired my eyes are blurry. Maybe I can address this tomorrow 👀

 

[tanakh]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

To begin in order to understand of Matthew 24 one needs to read Matthew 23 first. The Olivet discourse has more than one application.
Many who read Matthew 24 either place everything Christ said as belonging to the second coming or in the case of Preterists everything around AD70. The way I see it is that Jesus prophesied the events of AD70. He warned that generation what would happen in their lifetime and those who heeded the warning escaped Jerusalem before it was too late. But those events were not ''THE'' second coming. God used the Romans in the same way he used the Assyrians and Babylonians. In the case of Babylon he allowed the Jews to return and build another Temple but this time he didn't. The reason he didn't was because the Old Testament age was completed at the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. After those events God allowed the Temple and City to continue for a while to allow people time to repent and for the Church to be established in the world at large.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Wow that's funny 😆! Paul said, Jesus was that new creation ie new heaven and Earth! The old heaven and Earth in Adam has passed away behold all things have become new in Christ Jesus!

A new heavens and a new earth? Really?

Why wasn't the battle of Gog & Magog which includes ALL the nations surrounding Israel (not Rome) recorded in history?
A battle that big with such an outcome would have been recorded in human history. (Ezekiel 38 & 39, Rev 20)

Why is the sea still here? (Rev 21:1)

Why can I still see the light of the sun? (Rev 21:23, Rev 22:5)

Why do people still die? (Rev 21:4)

Why do people still mourn for people who still die? (Rev 21:4)

Why are millions of people (including Christians) still in pain? (Rev 21:4)

Why can't we see God face to face? (Rev 22:4)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I've already stated, has hyperbole and the symbolic language of the ancient prophets of God ever crossed your minds, as being in play here????

But thanks

Nope

because if so, prophecynand it’s purpose is meaningless

God said prophecy is for one purpose and one purpose only. So those who witness its fulfilment knows God spoke, and it came true.

if it does not come true, or we just make an allegory or hyperbole out of its t has no bearing on what God said, so you will Know I am the lord your God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly when Daniel ch 2, prophecied He would, set-up His kingdom in the earth at the time of Rome; it would fill the whole Earth, His kingdom would never be removed and would never end.

In 70ad, the resurrection of the dead, the devil is no longer the ruler of the world!

And by the way there's your perfect paradigm that refutes the false prophecies of the secret snatching away of the church, in the 21st century or anyother time! That is if you give the prophets of God their due?!

But like I've said until you get this other crap out of your head, God will not allow you to get it, that's God's way.

Anyway I appreciate your question! Not trying to be rude but God only allows us to see what we can see! But you already know that 🤓

The prophecies of daniel 2 and 7 have not yet been fulfilled,if one would study deeply, the Rome of Jesus day did not do all that it was said they would do,

that’s why 70ad is a false end..

plus CHrist did not return at 70 ad and punish the gentile nation's,

 

[John146]

Exactly when Daniel ch 2, prophecied He would, set-up His kingdom in the earth at the time of Rome; it would fill the whole Earth, His kingdom would never be removed and would never end.

In 70ad, the resurrection of the dead, the devil is no longer the ruler of the world!

And by the way there's your perfect paradigm that refutes the false prophecies of the secret snatching away of the church, in the 21st century or anyother time! That is if you give the prophets of God their due?!

But like I've said until you get this other crap out of your head, God will not allow you to get it, that's God's way.

Anyway I appreciate your question! Not trying to be rude but God only allows us to see what we can see! But you already know that 🤓

Again, you’re spiritualizing the promised kingdom. It’s a literal, physical, visible kingdom where Christ is ruling from Jerusalem in person. Yes, the kingdom of God is in the hearts of believers, but I’m referring to the restoration of the kingdom of Israel, the kingdom of heaven. To equate the two is a huge mistake.

 

[Kolistus]

No it has not: Anyone who teaches it has has no Spirit of God in them, is unregenerate and deceived to the utter most and their opinions should be disregarded completely.

 

[alvchris2000]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

The second coming has not already happened. It will be felt and seen globally.

 

[garee]

The second coming has not already happened. It will be felt and seen globally.

The last day will be the end of this corrupted creation. One outward demonstration of the flesh is all that was promised. God is not man as us.

He will come as lightening in a flash as a thief in the night. Blink of the eye.