I deny your claim that men today are baptized with the Holy Spirit. The bible shows baptism with the Holy Spirit was a prophecy fulfilled long ago and now obsolete and Christ's baptism of the great commission is the one baptism of Eph 4:5 in effect in this present dispensation and not baptism with the Holy Spirit.
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Uh ... no.
If He was speaking only to His apostles, why did He mention the world? You can't slice and dice Scripture just to make it read in support of your beliefs. That is precisely what the multiple warnings in the Bible regard that say not to add or take away from the Word.
John 16, NASB
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
If He was speaking only to His apostles, why did He mention the world? You can't slice and dice Scripture just to make it read in support of your beliefs. That is precisely what the multiple warnings in the Bible regard that say not to add or take away from the Word.
Well I have not considered hell to be a baptism of fire but I guess you could see it that way.
When Jesus baptizes with Spirit and with fire Jesus is cleansing the persons soul and making it pure and holy an abiding place for His Holy Spirit. It is a refining fire burning off the dross of sin and making pure. Very different from the fire of condemnation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When Jesus baptizes with Spirit and with fire Jesus is cleansing the persons soul and making it pure and holy an abiding place for His Holy Spirit. It is a refining fire burning off the dross of sin and making pure. Very different from the fire of condemnation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Which is why you remain a natural man and not a Spiritual man. You refuse to receive Christ and be filled with the Holy Spirit. God gives the Holy Spirit as a seal and a promise of our salvation. It is the witness of Gods Spirit with our spirit that demonstrates that we are His children. I'm not talking about a Pentecostal thing but a genuine quickening by the Holy Spirit unto life eternal.
Some are ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Some are ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When you examine Joel you will see that the promise of Gods Spirit is to all flesh but as you correctly quote it is your, meaning Israel according to the flesh, old men and your young men not all old men nor all young men. This is where the error comes in when we do not pay attention to what the prophet is saying.
It is also why Peters sermon at Pentecost stated that it was a partial fulfillment not a complete fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. As Paul Harvey would say we get the rest of the story when we see the signs in the heavens at Christ's return at the close of the tribulation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It is also why Peters sermon at Pentecost stated that it was a partial fulfillment not a complete fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. As Paul Harvey would say we get the rest of the story when we see the signs in the heavens at Christ's return at the close of the tribulation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
M
3 to whom he also showed himself alive—After his resurrection Jesus remained on earth "by the space of forty days" before he ascended. He made many appearances to his apostles during this time; we have a record of some of these appearances in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus presented himself to them under different circumstances in such a way that they could not doubt that he had been raised from the dead. "By many proofs," he established the fact of his resurrection. The resurrection was the evidence that Jesus' death was not mere martyrdom, but trium phant atonement. The resurrection was to be the subject of the preaching of the apostles, they were left without a doubt as to his resurrection.
4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them—Among those things that Jesus taught his disciples during this period of forty days was "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem: ... but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:47-49.) The law was to go forth from Zion, and the word of God from Jerusalem. (Isa. 2:3.) The apostles were all Galileans far from home and in danger (John 20:19), but as Jesus had been denied the home comforts of Nazareth (Luke 4:16), so his disciples were all to remain in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came. It is called "the promise of my Father." (Luke 24:49; John 16:16-27; 15:26.) Jesus had also emphasized this promise. (Luke 12:11, 12; John 14 to 16.)
Jesus was speaking to his apostles.
4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them—Among those things that Jesus taught his disciples during this period of forty days was "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem: ... but tarry ye in the city, until ye be clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:47-49.) The law was to go forth from Zion, and the word of God from Jerusalem. (Isa. 2:3.) The apostles were all Galileans far from home and in danger (John 20:19), but as Jesus had been denied the home comforts of Nazareth (Luke 4:16), so his disciples were all to remain in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came. It is called "the promise of my Father." (Luke 24:49; John 16:16-27; 15:26.) Jesus had also emphasized this promise. (Luke 12:11, 12; John 14 to 16.)
Jesus was speaking to his apostles.
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You are now mis-using 1 Cor 2.
The spiritual man were those inspired writers of the bible, as Paul, who had been miraculously endowed to receive revelatory words from the Holy Spirit and wrote those words down to be read, Eph 3:3,4. The natural man was one who was not a inspired writer, not given the miraculous power of inspiration.
Mankind from Joel's time was made up of two groups: Jews and non-Jews[Gentiles].
The only two occurrences in the NT of baptism with the Holy Spirit:
Acts 2 -The apostles > JEWS
Acts 10 - Cornelius > a GENTILE
Therefore "all flesh" Jew and Gentile were baptized with the Holy Ghost bringing that prophecy of Joel to an end. If Joel's prophecy was not fulfilled then the man known as Jesus was not the Christ/Messiah, Mt 5:17,18 for Jesus failed to fulfill this prophecy of Joel leaving every jot and tittle of the OT law in place and in effect today.
Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
When the apostles (Jews) in Acts 2 were baptized with the Holy Spirit Peter directly ties that event to Joel's prophecy as seen in Acts 2:16 above.
Acts 11:15;16 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost."
It is estimated by some scholars that anywhere from 5-15 years passed between Acts 2 and Acts 10. When Cornelius (Gentile) was baptized with the Holy Spirit, Peter had to go back over all those years to Acts 2 to "the beginning" [Acts 11:15] to find a similar occurrence of baptism with the Holy Spirit to make a comparison to what just happened with the Gentiles. If baptism with the Holy Spirit was a common occurrence that happened regularly then why did Peter have to go back so many years to find a comparable event as to what happened with the Gentiles in Acts 10,11? Why not in Acts 11:15 Peter say "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as the Holy Ghost has fallen upon all that are Christians" if the baptism is a common occurrence?
Peter connects baptism with the Holy Spirit with the Gentiles in Acts 10 with the Jews,apostles in Acts 2.
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------Is being baptism with the Holy Spirit necessary for one to be saved? If so, then those that have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit and are lost, whose failure is it that they were not baptized with the Holy Spirit and now are lost? Since only the Lord can baptize with the Holy Spirit then the Lord becomes culpable for all those NOT baptized with the Holy Spirit and are lost.
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Joel is specific. 1 Corinthians 12-14 is dealing with a different group of people. Are visions and dreams gifts of the Holy Spirit? What then of the sign gifts that have ended? God gifts men to the church with gifts for ministry. God gifts folks in the church for ministry. The gifts as signs are done until Christ returns.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When we read Acts 2 we see that the translators got it right where they say and Peter being filled with the Holy Spirit preached unto them.
Those who were there and heard Peter who responded to the message, repented, then received the Holy Spirit and were saved. About three thousand souls were saved right then and there. When Gods word is preached men first recognize their need, respond to the need and then receive salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Those who were there and heard Peter who responded to the message, repented, then received the Holy Spirit and were saved. About three thousand souls were saved right then and there. When Gods word is preached men first recognize their need, respond to the need and then receive salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger