Have you believed the false grace message?

[PeterJens]

One obvious thing people forget is the cost of sacrifice.

People say a lot of pompous things, but when something precious is taken away,
the hurt drives them into rebellion. I have seen this.

Will they come back? I do not know, but truly no one is safe, and the foundations
you have only get exposed with the storm rages, and I pray you may stand.

But to treat this like some do like it is doctrine and certain are blind guides without
experience or knowledge. Jesus talks of this a lot.

 

[Sully]

One obvious thing people forget is the cost of sacrifice.

People say a lot of pompous things, but when something precious is taken away,
the hurt drives them into rebellion. I have seen this.

Will they come back? I do not know, but truly no one is safe, and the foundations
you have only get exposed with the storm rages, and I pray you may stand.

But to treat this like some do like it is doctrine and certain are blind guides without
experience or knowledge. Jesus talks of this a lot.

Can you elaborate, maybe a scenario? When you say "Will they come back?" What do you mean, back to salvation? When you say "no one is safe" Do you mean in salvation?

 

[Depleted]

Same group of people running around with stones in hand dismissing truth. Yall seem very confident we as Christians are not suppose to tell each other when one is falling into sin. And I have done neither but Paul says in

2 Timothy 4New International Version (NIV)4 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

What's the purpose in telling someone they're falling in sin, when the person isn't listening?

 

[Depleted]

I am happy you could not. But we here stories all the time of kids who choose Christ and live in a Godly home but go off to college and you can guess what happen. Only God knows if they will ever return to the faith of their youth. God chose all to be saved and its a personal choice to invite Christ in and live in faith.

LOL That was the first time I tried to walk. (Not a godly home, but did go to college after being saved, with the usual bad results because I did walk.)

Yeah? No. God didn't choose all. And it was never "personal choice." Get that and you begin to understand God's sovereignty.

 

[valiant]

. But we hear stories all the time of kids who choose Christ and live in a Godly home but go off to college and you can guess what happens. Only God knows if they will ever return to the faith of their youth. God chose all to be saved and its a personal choice to invite Christ in and live in faith.

If God has saved them then they are saved for ever. He will not let one of them fall through His fingers (John 10.29).

where does it say God chose all to be saved? He rather chose those whom He would save. If it were left to our personal choice we would not stand a chance,

Your God is too small.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

If God has saved them then they are saved for ever. He will not let one of them fall through His fingers (John 10.29).

where does it say God chose all to be saved? He rather chose those whom He would save. If it were left to our personal choice we would not stand a chance,

Your God is too small.

I respect your opinion but I feel the need to enlighten you.

John 3:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God loved the world in this way:[SUP][a][/SUP] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

2 Peter 3:9Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

I would be careful talking about God in that way when it could be your just lacking in understanding and that's okay. Oh and yes believing and coming to repentance is a personal choice. God may first seek us but he will never force anyone to seek him. He predestined all
once he sent his son to die for all. The only thing anyone must do is answer the call and invite our Lord and Savior in.

1 Timothy 2:3-4New International Version (NIV)[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is good, and pleases God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Also when you take scripture out of context to fit OSAS, you must post everything that belongs to the scripture that are before it or after it. This why it gives everyone the choice to figure out if that scripture fits your view.

John 10:27-29Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. [SUP]28 [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

As long as we follow, no one can take eternal life from you. If we choose to follow our own desires, no where in scripture does it say we are forced by God to never be able to backslide and fall away. The spirit is our seal and if we do not walk in the spirit. We are again under the law.

[SUP]25[/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit And the only way to not be under the law of sin is to follow and be led by the spirit [SUP]18[/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.





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[samuel23]

We do not have a part in the actual saving of our soul because only God can do that, however we do have a part in whether or not we get saved, that is our choice.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

What's the purpose in telling someone they're falling in sin, when the person isn't listening?

How do you know they wont listen? If you sit idly by and let a fellow believer stay in deliberate sin and you know of it then you are not participating in the body of Christ. You could be the one person to help that person. The thing is we are only the messenger of truth and if they don't except it then all you can do is pray and be there for that person whenever they may need a friend.

After all fellow believers who have fallen into deliberate sin. Paul calls us to preach truth(to urge acceptance or abandonment of an idea or course of action from a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true) , correct(to make or set right), rebuke (to criticize sharply) and encourage (to inspire with courage, spirit, or hope)
with patience(manifesting forbearance under provocation or strain) and careful instruction(marked by wary caution or prudence to the action, practice, or profession of teaching).

 

[Roughsoul1991]

We do not have a part in the actual saving of our soul because only God can do that, however we do have a part in whether or not we get saved, that is our choice.

exactly and no other way

 

[Depleted]

I respect your opinion but I feel the need to enlighten you.

John 3:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God loved the world in this way:[SUP][a][/SUP] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

2 Peter 3:9Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

I would be careful talking about God in that way when it could be your just lacking in understanding and that's okay. Oh and yes believing and coming to repentance is a personal choice. God may first seek us but he will never force anyone to seek him. He predestined all
once he sent his son to die for all. The only thing anyone must do is answer the call and invite our Lord and Savior in.

1 Timothy 2:3-4New International Version (NIV)[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is good, and pleases God our Savior, [SUP]4[/SUP]who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Also when you take scripture out of context to fit OSAS, you must post everything that belongs to the scripture that are before it or after it. This why it gives everyone the choice to figure out if that scripture fits your view.

John 10:27-29Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]27[/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. [SUP]28 [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand. [SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

As long as we follow, no one can take eternal life from you. If we choose to follow our own desires, no where in scripture does it say we are forced by God to never be able to backslide and fall away. The spirit is our seal and if we do not walk in the spirit. We are again under the law.

[SUP]25[/SUP]Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit And the only way to not be under the law of sin is to follow and be led by the spirit [SUP]18[/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.





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I would attribute the website you copy/pasted from, since obviously that wasn't your own effort.

And then, respectfully suggest you read those verses in context. I don't think it's Valiant who needs the education this time.

 

[Depleted]

How do you know they wont listen? If you sit idly by and let a fellow believer stay in deliberate sin and you know of it then you are not participating in the body of Christ. You could be the one person to help that person. The thing is we are only the messenger of truth and if they don't except it then all you can do is pray and be there for that person whenever they may need a friend.

After all fellow believers who have fallen into deliberate sin. Paul calls us to preach truth(to urge acceptance or abandonment of an idea or course of action from a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true) , correct(to make or set right), rebuke (to criticize sharply) and encourage (to inspire with courage, spirit, or hope)
with patience(manifesting forbearance under provocation or strain) and careful instruction(marked by wary caution or prudence to the action, practice, or profession of teaching).

69 posts on this thread are you not listening. That's how I know.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I would attribute the website you copy/pasted from, since obviously that wasn't your own effort.

And then, respectfully suggest you read those verses in context. I don't think it's Valiant who needs the education this time.

Lol really? I use this bible in print as to how I find them. And in use with other translations its spot on. And its always been accurate when I check greek to English translation.

 

[Ariel82]

Is there a readers digest version?

FIVE MARKS OF THE FALSE-GRACE DOCTRINE

ONE. We believe in a theology of exemption.

TWO. Sin is treated as temporally troubling but eternally benign.

THREE. Repentance and confession of sin is not necessary after we have been saved.

FOUR. A biblical works message is renounced as legalism.

FIVE. Salvation is depicted as easy and/or permanent.
Jesus didn’t die on the cross to make it easy for us to get saved. He died so it would be possible for us to get saved

..,,,,

His bullet points.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

FIVE MARKS OF THE FALSE-GRACE DOCTRINE

ONE. We believe in a theology of exemption.

TWO. Sin is treated as temporally troubling but eternally benign.

THREE. Repentance and confession of sin is not necessary after we have been saved.

FOUR. A biblical works message is renounced as legalism.

FIVE. Salvation is depicted as easy and/or permanent.
Jesus didn’t die on the cross to make it easy for us to get saved. He died so it would be possible for us to get saved

..,,,,

His bullet points.

I have been a Christian for 30 some years. Never met anyone who held to those 5 points.. Its not Calvin, Its nor Armenian. It is not Catholic or orthodox. Not baptist or Lutheran. Not CoC or Methodist. What is it?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

69 posts on this thread are you not listening. That's how I know.

I am far from the only one that believes this way. As many others has posted but wiser than me to know its useless to speak to certain people who have deafened their ears and hardened their hearts. But we post not for yall but for who are trying to learn. I have respect for your beliefs but don't agree. I am always open for you to try and enlighten me but so far its truth excluding truth or just elementary truth. And then outside of online just in our small little district 403 church's also believe the same way as I do.

We are in a relationship with Christ not of a slave against our will but as the greek word says in the NT when we see slave is Doulos a Greek word meaning bondservant. Many do not understand the role of a bondservant in relation to our Master Jesus. Americans instinctively cringe at the thought of servitude, slavery, or bondage. And no wonder since our country was founded on freedom, in the very act of breaking away from servitude to the King of England. A dictionary definition of a bondservant is someone bound to labor without wages. A synonym of bondservant is slave.

The description of a Biblical bondservant of is one who chooses to serve his Master till death. He will forever wear the mark of this Master. He accomplishes all the Master's will for his life because of a love called "agape."


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[Ariel82]

I haven't read all the responses to the thread.

However I have read the article and I don't like it.

The ads are distracting and I feel like he is trying to fleece God's sheep. However skipping over that and his plug to sell a book at the beginning of the article, he moves on to judge others salvation or lack of it.

That activity is more of what Satan does than children of God. God doesn't ask us to judge and tell people whether they are saved or not. He sends his holy Spirit to affirm those who are born again, so they may cry out Abba father!

Finally we move to his five points and I strongly object to many of them.

I am not sure if he says it out of ignorance or malice but I can see how his message shows an incomplete understanding of grace and how God works.

It would take a while to post each objection and the scripture that helped me come to understand why it's false.

The main point of contention would be the answer to,the question: how do you know you are in Christ?

He says by your good works and fruit, by obeying God's laws.

I would say if you don't have the Holy Spirit leading and guiding you, Then you need to pray and wait upon God. If you can't recognize God's voice from all the others floating through your mind, Then you need to pray for wisdom and study your Bible more.

Salvation is easy and simple that even a child can understand it.

However walking with Christ and living a godly life is not easy.

I don't like the article because it focuses on what the author condemns and judges as wrong, without showing any truth and often showing his ignorance of what the true message of those he is criticizing are trying to convey.

I thank God he speaks to each of us where we are and not where others think we need to be.

God has taught me we don't become more godly by focusing on what we have done wrong.

We become more like Him, by focusing on Him and His promises. We learn to love others because we know God's agape love for us.

When people put conditions on God's love and acceptance, it saddens me. It shows me that they don't understand Prevenient grace.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

FIVE MARKS OF THE FALSE-GRACE DOCTRINE

ONE. We believe in a theology of exemption.

TWO. Sin is treated as temporally troubling but eternally benign.

THREE. Repentance and confession of sin is not necessary after we have been saved.

FOUR. A biblical works message is renounced as legalism.

FIVE. Salvation is depicted as easy and/or permanent.
Jesus didn’t die on the cross to make it easy for us to get saved. He died so it would be possible for us to get saved

..,,,,

His bullet points.

As he explained what was wrong with this way of thinking.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I haven't read all the responses to the thread.

However I have read the article and I don't like it.

The ads are distracting and I feel like he is trying to fleece God's sheep. However skipping over that and his plug to sell a book at the beginning of the article, he moves on to judge others salvation or lack of it.

That activity is more of what Satan does than children of God. God doesn't ask us to judge and tell people whether they are saved or not. He sends his holy Spirit to affirm those who are born again, so they may cry out Abba father!

Finally we move to his five points and I strongly object to many of them.

I am not sure if he says it out of ignorance or malice but I can see how his message shows an incomplete understanding of grace and how God works.

It would take a while to post each objection and the scripture that helped me come to understand why it's false.

The main point of contention would be the answer to,the question: how do you know you are in Christ?

He says by your good works and fruit, by obeying God's laws.

I would say if you don't have the Holy Spirit leading and guiding you, Then you need to pray and wait upon God. If you can't recognize God's voice from all the others floating through your mind, Then you need to pray for wisdom and study your Bible more.

Salvation is easy and simple that even a child can understand it.

However walking with Christ and living a godly life is not easy.

I don't like the article because it focuses on what the author condemns and judges as wrong, without showing any truth and often showing his ignorance of what the true message of those he is criticizing are trying to convey.

I thank God he speaks to each of us where we are and not where others think we need to be.

God has taught me we don't become more godly by focusing on what we have done wrong.

We become more like Him, by focusing on Him and His promises. We learn to love others because we know God's agape love for us.

When people put conditions on God's love and acceptance, it saddens me. It shows me that they don't understand Prevenient grace.

Prevenient grace is a Christian theological concept rooted in Arminian theology, though it appeared earlier in Catholic theology. It is divine grace that precedes human decision. It exists prior to and without reference to anything humans may have done.

So this is what you believe?

 

[Ariel82]

Are we slaves or are we free children of the King?

Do we belong to Hagar or Sarah?

Jerusalem below or above?

Old or new covenant?

 

[Ariel82]

I have been a Christian for 30 some years. Never met anyone who held to those 5 points.. Its not Calvin, Its nor Armenian. It is not Catholic or orthodox. Not baptist or Lutheran. Not CoC or Methodist. What is it?

It only needs a heart from the wizard of Oz.....burns nicely though doesn't it?

It actually appears to be some of every denomination of you don't have a firm understanding of the theology behind general statements. So would be a useful tool to turn people from most established churches and have them feel justified in judging all those who attend such churches as going to hell.

It's a dangerous road many walk and attempt to tempt others to follow them when they begin to judge others salvation.