Have you believed the false grace message?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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There are 2 aspects to grace.
The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )
Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior ( and thus called unmerited favor ) - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with their religious man-made traditions.
The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )
Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior ( and thus called unmerited favor ) - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with their religious man-made traditions.
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Are you failing to consider the extent of the transformation brought about by the grace of God? This falling away and jumping out of the hand of God is foolishness when viewed from the perspective that Gods grace transforms us completely.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That's God who knows the man's heart. Not me. I just feel the need to warn people not to test the Lord and fall back into old habits or new bad habits.
I do not know who truly falls away and won't go to heaven, for all I know they may truly repent days before death.
But since we don't know the hour of our death it's good to warn people of the urgency.
You ask me why am I so concerned with others. Because I am so concerned with me.
Ask that question to your preacher since is concerned for others too
I do not know who truly falls away and won't go to heaven, for all I know they may truly repent days before death.
But since we don't know the hour of our death it's good to warn people of the urgency.
You ask me why am I so concerned with others. Because I am so concerned with me.
Ask that question to your preacher since is concerned for others too
This reminds me of the verse. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself........I think it is speaking of the here and now and it is a self condemnation based on how one condemns or judges others.......for the same measure you use...it will be used against you.
This is not all about some future judgment...it is right now.
This is not all about some future judgment...it is right now.
You are in error.
You are disconnecting "salvation" from being a manifest state inclusive of heart purity having been set free from every lawless deed, and are instead viewing salvation as an "abstract position."
I'll break it down for you.
You say this...
"but his walk in faith doesn't grow, and he decides to deny Christ."
Thus you have an individual who is in a "present state" of having "decided to deny Christ" and is thus clearly "not WALKING adding to their faith." Yet you connect that present reality to "could end up with loss of salvation." You are viewing "salvation" as a POSITION they hold as opposed to a tangible reality reflective of the condition of one's soul and character.
Salvation is a manifest state of being alive to God through the Spirit, it is not a position one holds.
Look at what the Bible states...
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Jesus gave Himself for us for the express purpose of...
1. Redeeming us from ALL iniquity.
2. Purifying unto Himself a peculiar people.
Redeem means...
Redeem - lutroō
From G3083; to ransom (literally or figuratively): - redeem.
G3083 lutron
From G3089; something to loosen with, that is, a redemption price (figuratively atonement): - ransom.
G3809 luō
A primary verb; to “loosen” (literally or figuratively): - break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-) loose, melt, put off. Compare G4486.
What is one "loosened" or "put off" from?
"he might redeem us from all iniquity" (Tit 2:14).
Compare to...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
See how Paul recognises a "service" to either unrighteousness or righteousness?
There are two kinds of people alluded to in Romans 6:16.
1. Servants of Sin - Servants of Unrighteousness
2. Servants of Righteousness - Those Whom Obey From the Heart
Now look back at Titus 2:14 and you'll see it says...
"he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
There is an association between being set free from ALL iniquity and being both pure and zealous for righteousness. Now look at what Jesus taught...
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Jesus speaks of two kinds of people...
1. Workers of iniquity - Those whom do not DO the will of the Father.
2. Hearers and Doers - Those whom do the will of the Father.
One kind of people is still "serving sin" whilst the other kind of person is "serving righteousness."
Compare to what John wrote...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
John warned to not let ANYONE deceive you. He that DOES what is righteous is righteous even as Jesus Christ is righteous.
The word for DOETH and COMMIT is "poieō" in the Greek and it means PRODUCE or BRING FORTH. It is the "deeds" or "action" produced by an individual.
The children of God are MANIFEST (made known) in that they do not produce the deeds of unrighteousness in their lives because the seed of Jesus Christ is present within them. One cannot be "abiding in Jesus" and be "working iniquity" at the same time.
Jesus prayed...
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Salvation is a MANIFEST STATE of being one in Christ, the love of God having been shed abroad in the heart (Rom 5:5) via the washing of regeneration by the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:5). Anyone without a testimony of truly being delivered from "working iniquity" and "purified" whereby they are zealous for righteousness is not saved.
Satan has deceived multitudes of religious people who call themselves Christian's into believing in a salvation which is PURELY POSITIONAL apart from an actual total transformation of their heart. Paul wrote...
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
To be IN CHRIST is a present manifest reality of WALKING IN THE SPIRIT by which the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD is literally fulfilled within the heart and thus that which is PRODUCED OUTWARDLY is righteousness. There is no condemnation upon those whom are alive in this present manifest state for they are walking according to the Spirit and are in union with Jesus Christ, He in them, and they in Him, being perfect in one...
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Here is a video I made which explains these things in a very clear manner, please take a look.
[video=youtube;4EZp0tvX1tQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EZp0tvX1tQ[/video]
I would ignore the "servants of sin" whom pervade these forums. Arguing with them is pointless, they generally spend an inordinate amount of their time on an internet forum soothing their conscience of the reality of a SALVATION POSITION (sporting their own deceivings) whilst they still remain literal slaves of corruption...
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
You are disconnecting "salvation" from being a manifest state inclusive of heart purity having been set free from every lawless deed, and are instead viewing salvation as an "abstract position."
I'll break it down for you.
You say this...
"but his walk in faith doesn't grow, and he decides to deny Christ."
Thus you have an individual who is in a "present state" of having "decided to deny Christ" and is thus clearly "not WALKING adding to their faith." Yet you connect that present reality to "could end up with loss of salvation." You are viewing "salvation" as a POSITION they hold as opposed to a tangible reality reflective of the condition of one's soul and character.
Salvation is a manifest state of being alive to God through the Spirit, it is not a position one holds.
Look at what the Bible states...
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Jesus gave Himself for us for the express purpose of...
1. Redeeming us from ALL iniquity.
2. Purifying unto Himself a peculiar people.
Redeem means...
Redeem - lutroō
From G3083; to ransom (literally or figuratively): - redeem.
G3083 lutron
From G3089; something to loosen with, that is, a redemption price (figuratively atonement): - ransom.
G3809 luō
A primary verb; to “loosen” (literally or figuratively): - break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-) loose, melt, put off. Compare G4486.
What is one "loosened" or "put off" from?
"he might redeem us from all iniquity" (Tit 2:14).
Compare to...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
See how Paul recognises a "service" to either unrighteousness or righteousness?
There are two kinds of people alluded to in Romans 6:16.
1. Servants of Sin - Servants of Unrighteousness
2. Servants of Righteousness - Those Whom Obey From the Heart
Now look back at Titus 2:14 and you'll see it says...
"he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
There is an association between being set free from ALL iniquity and being both pure and zealous for righteousness. Now look at what Jesus taught...
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Jesus speaks of two kinds of people...
1. Workers of iniquity - Those whom do not DO the will of the Father.
2. Hearers and Doers - Those whom do the will of the Father.
One kind of people is still "serving sin" whilst the other kind of person is "serving righteousness."
Compare to what John wrote...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
John warned to not let ANYONE deceive you. He that DOES what is righteous is righteous even as Jesus Christ is righteous.
The word for DOETH and COMMIT is "poieō" in the Greek and it means PRODUCE or BRING FORTH. It is the "deeds" or "action" produced by an individual.
The children of God are MANIFEST (made known) in that they do not produce the deeds of unrighteousness in their lives because the seed of Jesus Christ is present within them. One cannot be "abiding in Jesus" and be "working iniquity" at the same time.
Jesus prayed...
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Salvation is a MANIFEST STATE of being one in Christ, the love of God having been shed abroad in the heart (Rom 5:5) via the washing of regeneration by the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:5). Anyone without a testimony of truly being delivered from "working iniquity" and "purified" whereby they are zealous for righteousness is not saved.
Satan has deceived multitudes of religious people who call themselves Christian's into believing in a salvation which is PURELY POSITIONAL apart from an actual total transformation of their heart. Paul wrote...
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
To be IN CHRIST is a present manifest reality of WALKING IN THE SPIRIT by which the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD is literally fulfilled within the heart and thus that which is PRODUCED OUTWARDLY is righteousness. There is no condemnation upon those whom are alive in this present manifest state for they are walking according to the Spirit and are in union with Jesus Christ, He in them, and they in Him, being perfect in one...
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Here is a video I made which explains these things in a very clear manner, please take a look.
[video=youtube;4EZp0tvX1tQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EZp0tvX1tQ[/video]
I would ignore the "servants of sin" whom pervade these forums. Arguing with them is pointless, they generally spend an inordinate amount of their time on an internet forum soothing their conscience of the reality of a SALVATION POSITION (sporting their own deceivings) whilst they still remain literal slaves of corruption...
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
W
No, not all of us and certainly not me. I will give an example. and definitions of what I believe.
Fallen away.~~~You have fallen away. There is no loss of salvation in Christianity. If we lose THE faith, the first thing we THINK we can lose is eternal security. The Holy Spirit inspired John 5:24, and one in THE faith believes and lives by John 5:24.
Deny Christ~~~loss of salvation is denying(indirectly) the finished work of Christ. It denies Christ subtly and indirectly.
I believe Loss of salvation is falling from THE faith and denies Christ. Yet, I still believe the majority that sincerely believe loss of salvation are really saved.
They will be saved as if through fire,lose their crowns,uniform of glory,their rank,their privileges, their new title, their free access to the tree of life in the garden of God and many more eternal rewards. And, IMO,the worst thing..... they will have SHAME at the Bema seat of Christ. they worked their whole life for the very thing He secured for them the moment they believed. They end up with a pile of ashes for rewards.
They will be happy,content and sin free servants in the eternal state, when they could have been kings and lords.
Fallen away.~~~You have fallen away. There is no loss of salvation in Christianity. If we lose THE faith, the first thing we THINK we can lose is eternal security. The Holy Spirit inspired John 5:24, and one in THE faith believes and lives by John 5:24.
Deny Christ~~~loss of salvation is denying(indirectly) the finished work of Christ. It denies Christ subtly and indirectly.
I believe Loss of salvation is falling from THE faith and denies Christ. Yet, I still believe the majority that sincerely believe loss of salvation are really saved.
They will be saved as if through fire,lose their crowns,uniform of glory,their rank,their privileges, their new title, their free access to the tree of life in the garden of God and many more eternal rewards. And, IMO,the worst thing..... they will have SHAME at the Bema seat of Christ. they worked their whole life for the very thing He secured for them the moment they believed. They end up with a pile of ashes for rewards.
They will be happy,content and sin free servants in the eternal state, when they could have been kings and lords.
S
Matt 18:2-3 Jesus called a little child to stand among them. 3“Truly I tell you, He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.…
You won't find a child that will talk himself out such a blessing when it's handed to him/her. They'll just rip it out of your hand and enjoy it to the fullest. And as the one giving the gift you'd be thrilled with that response. Now how much more is God thrilled?
You won't find a child that will talk himself out such a blessing when it's handed to him/her. They'll just rip it out of your hand and enjoy it to the fullest. And as the one giving the gift you'd be thrilled with that response. Now how much more is God thrilled?