Have You Meditated on the Distinction

[JaumeJ]

There is so much back and forth on grace and the law. I often wonder if those debating Yahweh's Word have considered the difference between COMMANDMENT and LAW.

When Paul discourses on the law, he is not speaking of commandments.

By Example, Jesus, Yeshua, demonstrates that when it comes to mercy, mercy takes precedence over law.

Now, in this sense, the Lord has given each of us at least some sense to reason and meditate on His Word. With this in mind, I believe He, Yahweh, actually gives His children enough credit to be able to reason when mercy and forgiveness take precedence, especially following Yeshua as our Only Example.

We are all under grace, and when we fall short again, and we do for we will never be perfected until His Great Day, when we fall short we are forgiven. Now, how is it we fall short? The mere fact that we require grace to continue in His way is explanation more than sufficient, and that we yet break the law.

So why all the nonsense about it being a sin to want to obey the Father Who gave His Only Begotten Son to follow as the Only Example? When we do not, it is sin, and we do not sin more in order for grace to abound, Yahweh forbid.

 

[Laodicea]

Amen, well said

 

[tribesman]

What tires me most is that every time one rightfully insists that we are to keep the commandments of God, then there's a heap of accusations of "legalism" and seeking to be justified and perfected by the law.

 

[pickles]

What tires me most is that every time one rightfully insists that we are to keep the commandments of God, then there's a heap of accusations of "legalism" and seeking to be justified and perfected by the law.

I see these kind of things as growing pains, we all go through them, then hopefully, we all will mature and eat meat.

The path is not always perfect, but what matters, is that we are on the right path, walking with Jesus.

God bless
pickles

 

[JaumeJ]

What tires me most is that every time one rightfully insists that we are to keep the commandments of God, then there's a heap of accusations of "legalism" and seeking to be justified and perfected by the law.

I see these kind of things as growing pains, we all go through them, then hopefully, we all will mature and eat meat.

The path is not always perfect, but what matters, is that we are on the right path, walking with Jesus.

God bless
pickles

Amen. What is more when I have stated it is a pleasure to obey the commandments, nothing but flack and accusations of being anti-Messiah come back to me, which is the farthest thing from heart, soul and mind. Why is it not permitted by some to love the Father enough to want to always be obedient? How can people who think in this manner (against obedience) know grace to the fullest unless they realize they are still not perfect until His day? Many Christians say, "I do not sin." Sin is not imputed under grace, but all sin, and if they say otherwise, they will answer to Jesus Christ for this affront to the Cross, amen.

 

[pickles]

For some time now I have been trying to disern what or who is speaking the truth about sin and what we are asked to do.
If you think the debate is bad here, it is nothing compared to the debates Ive had with myself.
In prayer, reading scriptures, trying to know and do what is Gods will, what is the standard we are called to.
Are we supposed to never sin again?
Are we under grace so sin has no hold on us?
I have wanted to do all perfectly in Jesus, and yet I am weak, and fail.
Like many here serching for what in Jesus we are called to, speak to, witness to, how to live as called.
I have spent many a night weeping , simply because I saw only failier in my walk.
Then another day confident I was covered by grace.
Then again, I felt lost in all of it.
For I cannot know perfectly.
But the one I look to in faith, trust in, love, Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh, is perfect!
He is trully the way, the truth and the light!
I see now that Jesus will not fail me, or any of us.
As long as one keeps their eyes on Him.
But , I do see now, that if one looks to scripture, useing it to excuse what one does or does not do, that this is a good clue they are not acting in faith.
They are simply looking for proof.
And we are called to faith!
For scripture is our guide, and Jesus in faith our hope, for His love will not fail us.
God Our Father will , through His Holy Spirit , chastise, streangthen, comfort and conferm.
Because one cannot disern or always know what is the perfect answer.
But He who is perfect does, and we live in Him and He lives in us.
Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
Ive always seen psalm 23 as summing it up rather well for us.
For it is not about how perfect we think we are.
But , we, always in humility, trusting in He who is perfect through faith.

For when we being to think we have it all fgured out, that we need to become a fool.
I am so greatful for Gods chastising and humbleing, for it is in this , that the plank is removed from my eyes,ears, mind and heart.

There are but three things that last...Faith, hope and love! the greatest of these being love!

God bless
pickles

 

[JaumeJ]

We are asked not to sin. Sin finds its power in the laws and commandments. If we disobey Yahweh, we are sinning. It is as simple as that. The only complicated man-made issue here is which laws? Easy, follow the Example of Jesus, where mercy is there can be no sin. This does not mean licencious behavior; it means responsible behavior. Now I realize this, for some, this is even more complicated, but when we observe the great law of love, we know which course of action to adopt, always. Perhaps for some, being asked to act according to this great law is yet complicated. I suggest then they reexamine heart, soul and mind seeking to discern their own motives in approaching this subject at all, above all in the event they would suggest to others any understanding of the question at all.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[Nautilus]

Im fine with the commandments, its all the extraneous stuff in leviticus i dont worry about, like beard-trimming rules, and dietary laws, and whether or not i have to take a bath at a certain because i may have hugged my girlfriend during a time of the month that is considered unclean. All of those i just ignore to be quite honest...

 

[edward99]

There is so much back and forth on grace and the law. I often wonder if those debating Yahweh's Word have considered the difference between COMMANDMENT and LAW.

When Paul discourses on the law, he is not speaking of commandments.

By Example, Jesus, Yeshua, demonstrates that when it comes to mercy, mercy takes precedence over law.

Now, in this sense, the Lord has given each of us at least some sense to reason and meditate on His Word. With this in mind, I believe He, Yahweh, actually gives His children enough credit to be able to reason when mercy and forgiveness take precedence, especially following Yeshua as our Only Example.

We are all under grace, and when we fall short again, and we do for we will never be perfected until His Great Day, when we fall short we are forgiven. Now, how is it we fall short? The mere fact that we require grace to continue in His way is explanation more than sufficient, and that we yet break the law.

So why all the nonsense about it being a sin to want to obey the Father Who gave His Only Begotten Son to follow as the Only Example? When we do not, it is sin, and we do not sin more in order for grace to abound, Yahweh forbid.

Hi JaumeJ and all posters.

I agree that we are to obey the commandments of The Lord, including all the imperatives and commandments in the NT (I fail, and I fail daily)

For now, I would really appreciate an honest examination how we each obey the sabbath commandment.

Certainly there will be a variety of answers, and that's what I'm interested in.
edward



Exodus 20
8“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.



Is there any expansion/additional detail on this commandment we should be observing?

 

[JaumeJ]

The Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around, but remember Yahweh rested on the Seventh Day. Now, only because the Lord observed times and the like according to what is called the Jewish (lunar) calendar, I also, in wanting to please Jesus Who died just for me, observe Shabbat beginning sundown Friday until sundown Saturday, or should I say the seventh day? My day of preparation, daytime Fridays, I try to make my home as clean and neat as possible in the event God visits me on Shabbat, although I know He would not care if my place were in disarray or not. I rest on Shabbat, read the Word, come in to this room to fellowship if possible, and the like. I try not to shop on Shabbat, actually I do a good job of not shopping. As for exerting any effort on Shabbat, I simply do not, however if there is some task that must be accomplished, I do it with the peace of mind it is a good thing being done. It is always ok to do good on Shabbat , to heal or mend, or simply clean up a mess. The day is for our Maker and I to be together, and it is a reminder of the true Rest to come, being with our Maker forever, amen.

 

[edward99]

The Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around, but remember Yahweh rested on the Seventh Day. Now, only because the Lord observed times and the like according to what is called the Jewish (lunar) calendar, I also, in wanting to please Jesus Who died just for me, observe Shabbat beginning sundown Friday until sundown Saturday, or should I say the seventh day? My day of preparation, daytime Fridays, I try to make my home as clean and neat as possible in the event God visits me on Shabbat, although I know He would not care if my place were in disarray or not. I rest on Shabbat, read the Word, come in to this room to fellowship if possible, and the like. I try not to shop on Shabbat, actually I do a good job of not shopping. As for exerting any effort on Shabbat, I simply do not, however if there is some task that must be accomplished, I do it with the peace of mind it is a good thing being done. It is always ok to do good on Shabbat , to heal or mend, or simply clean up a mess. The day is for our Maker and I to be together, and it is a reminder of the true Rest to come, being with our Maker forever, amen.

OK. Thank you.
Are there any other OT or NT passages besides Exodus 20 which concern the sabbath for we in Christ?


Do you gather with other believers on other days of the week, per NT instructions?

 

[JaumeJ]

OK. Thank you.
Are there any other OT or NT passages besides Exodus 20 which concern the sabbath for we in Christ?


Do you gather with other believers on other days of the week, per NT instructions?

It is repeated in Leviticus I know. Everyone must keep in mind that Sabbath does not mean seventh, rather it means rest, thus many special days are referred to as Sabbaths, not simply the seventh day. Fellowship is with the sum total of the Body members of Yeshua, and they are scattered among many denominations and non-denominations. This is my fellowship because when the Holy Spirit entered into me much knowledge of the good news was magnified and elaborated upon instantly in my heart, soul and mind, however there was not a message or wisdom for my selecting a specific "church." It has only been recently that I have been blessed to encounter others who understand this. We will all be built up into one temple on His day and in His time, meanwhile the Chief and the Corner Stone is away, but soon He will return, amen.

 

[loveme1]

The Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around, but remember Yahweh rested on the Seventh Day. Now, only because the Lord observed times and the like according to what is called the Jewish (lunar) calendar, I also, in wanting to please Jesus Who died just for me, observe Shabbat beginning sundown Friday until sundown Saturday, or should I say the seventh day? My day of preparation, daytime Fridays, I try to make my home as clean and neat as possible in the event God visits me on Shabbat, although I know He would not care if my place were in disarray or not. I rest on Shabbat, read the Word, come in to this room to fellowship if possible, and the like. I try not to shop on Shabbat, actually I do a good job of not shopping. As for exerting any effort on Shabbat, I simply do not, however if there is some task that must be accomplished, I do it with the peace of mind it is a good thing being done. It is always ok to do good on Shabbat , to heal or mend, or simply clean up a mess. The day is for our Maker and I to be together, and it is a reminder of the true Rest to come, being with our Maker forever, amen.

I Like this.

minimal = better rest

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[Red33]

There is so much back and forth on grace and the law. I often wonder if those debating Yahweh's Word have considered the difference between COMMANDMENT and LAW.

When Paul discourses on the law, he is not speaking of commandments.

By Example, Jesus, Yeshua, demonstrates that when it comes to mercy, mercy takes precedence over law.

Now, in this sense, the Lord has given each of us at least some sense to reason and meditate on His Word. With this in mind, I believe He, Yahweh, actually gives His children enough credit to be able to reason when mercy and forgiveness take precedence, especially following Yeshua as our Only Example.

We are all under grace, and when we fall short again, and we do for we will never be perfected until His Great Day, when we fall short we are forgiven. Now, how is it we fall short? The mere fact that we require grace to continue in His way is explanation more than sufficient, and that we yet break the law.

So why all the nonsense about it being a sin to want to obey the Father Who gave His Only Begotten Son to follow as the Only Example? When we do not, it is sin, and we do not sin more in order for grace to abound, Yahweh forbid.

We all know the (10) commandments and the esteem that you have for them. As a NT believer, who has been given a new covenant under grace with new commandments, can you mention some of these new commandments that we are to obey that Jesus Christ has given to believers in the church and body of Christ? If possible, can you illustrate from the NT scriptures where any of these commandments were obeyed and put into practice as part of the faith that has been given to the church. Perhaps this will help. Can you explain what Yeshua is saying under this new commandment that was also confirmed by John?

Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jn 2:8-11 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Here's something also new distinct from the old...

Mt 5:27,28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Perhaps you can explain to us in the following passage what these commandments were that Jesus gave to the apostles through the Holy Spirit after He was taken up and ascended.

Acts 1:1-4
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

 

[loveme1]

Listen, what we should all come to is that some of us observe Sabbath and some don't.

I feel to and you don't.

Let us not be divided by this.

If i tell you you must for Salvation then Yahvah God help me for it is not written.


Do not be offended by other peoples obedience, if for one minute any one thinks they are saved for their obedience they are condemned. why?

Because one sin or 100 we are sentenced to death.

Only one way to be pardoned and that is by Yahshua the Messiah he leads us home to Yahvah God.

 

[JaumeJ]

We all know the (10) commandments and the esteem that you have for them. As a NT believer, who has been given a new covenant under grace with new commandments, can you mention some of these new commandments that we are to obey that Jesus Christ has given to believers in the church and body of Christ? If possible, can you illustrate from the NT scriptures where any of these commandments were obeyed and put into practice as part of the faith that has been given to the church. Perhaps this will help. Can you explain what Yeshua is saying under this new commandment that was also confirmed by John?

Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jn 2:8-11 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Here's something also new distinct from the old...

Mt 5:27,28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Perhaps you can explain to us in the following passage what these commandments were that Jesus gave to the apostles through the Holy Spirit after He was taken up and ascended.

Acts 1:1-4
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Spirit had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

It seems I am under grace according to all I have always posted in reply to you, but you simply do not read and understand what is posted, or perhaps you choose not to. Providing you actually read posts to which you reply, See if you understand my declaration on faith following:

I am under grace because by the Law no man is justified, nor could I ever be justified by my own performance. Like Abraham, my faith is regarded as works, and the Law had not yet been given. Now that we know Jesus, Yeshua, we regard His teachings and we obey the commandments, however, being under grace, and totally unable to fulfill all righteousness without grace, I a forgiven when I fail. If you do not understand yet, you are to be pitied, not condemned by any means. For our Father, disobedience is akin to idolatry. God help us all, amen.

 

[Red33]

It seems I am under grace according to all I have always posted in reply to you, but you simply do not read and understand what is posted, or perhaps you choose not to. Providing you actually read posts to which you reply, See if you understand my declaration on faith following:

I am under grace because by the Law no man is justified, nor could I ever be justified by my own performance. Like Abraham, my faith is regarded as works, and the Law had not yet been given. Now that we know Jesus, Yeshua, we regard His teachings and we obey the commandments, however, being under grace, and totally unable to fulfill all righteousness without grace, I a forgiven when I fail. If you do not understand yet, you are to be pitied, not condemned by any means. For our Father, disobedience is akin to idolatry. God help us all, amen.

I do not why it is with you, but you do not want to acknowledge any of the new commandments that we have been given under the new covenant of grace. These new commandments were given to the apostles by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit for the church, but you seem to want no part of them. Do they not measure up to the (10) commandments that you hold dear to your heart? Are the new commandments less holy or any less from the mouth of God then the old ones?

 

[loveme1]

I do not why it is with you, but you do not want to acknowledge any of the new commandments that we have been given under the new covenant of grace. These new commandments were given to the apostles by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit for the church, but you seem to want no part of them. Do they not measure up to the (10) commandments that you hold dear to your heart? Are the new commandments less holy or any less from the mouth of God then the old ones?

You see not that the 10 commandments live throughout any other Commandment....

What Yahvah God wrote in stone lives throughout everything else.


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[JaumeJ]

I do not why it is with you, but you do not want to acknowledge any of the new commandments that we have been given under the new covenant of grace. These new commandments were given to the apostles by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit for the church, but you seem to want no part of them. Do they not measure up to the (10) commandments that you hold dear to your heart? Are the new commandments less holy or any less from the mouth of God then the old ones?

This declaration of yours is totally twisted. I have been saying from the beginning we are to obey Jesus Christ, Yeshua. He made NO NEW commandment, He simply taught them with more emphasis. The closest He ever came to a new commandment was telling us we should love one another. Now in my book, when Yeshua suggests anything, it is a commandment. Please now, show the room the New commandments of Jesus. Please, do not paste half the Bible in your response, try, at least once, to be specific. I am all ears.......