Have You Meditated on the Distinction

[tribesman]

I do not why it is with you, but you do not want to acknowledge any of the new commandments that we have been given under the new covenant of grace. These new commandments were given to the apostles by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit for the church, but you seem to want no part of them. Do they not measure up to the (10) commandments that you hold dear to your heart? Are the new commandments less holy or any less from the mouth of God then the old ones?

Red, it has been posted on several threads here: Jesus did not teach any "new" commandments nor did He give a "new" law. He expounded perfectly on what the one and only law that God ever gave says.

 

[Nautilus]

Of course Red33...because you know the ten commandments are such a horrible standard to live by regardless. Your interpretation must be far and above better than everyone else's. I mean if Jaume was living by the Code of Hammurabi then yeah there is cause for concern. But it's the ten commandments, whats the big deal. He has also professed his faith in Jesus. Im starting to think you argue with people simply because you are incapable of civil conversations.

 

[tribesman]

There's a line to be drawn for what is sound challenging or exhortation. When it becomes "I am right, you are wrong" and arguing for the sake of arguing and leanings towards pontification then there can be no good communication.

 

[Red33]

You see not that the 10 commandments live throughout any other Commandment....

What Yahvah God wrote in stone lives throughout everything else.


Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

The same is true about you as it is with your friend JaumeJ in relationship to acknowledging and honoring the new commandments given under the new covenant. These new commandments, as do all commandments, come from the mouth of God (Mt 4:4, Deut 8:3) and have been established in the written word and by the Holy Spirit who inspired them (2Tim 3:16,17). These are the commandments of Christ, not some man, and have been given to the believers of the church. The commandments that have come from the mouth of God through the Spirit and have been given to the apostles, have been written and canonized for our learning and instruction in righteousness, and will never pass away because they are Spirit and life (Mk 13:31, Jn 6:63). The new commandments that we have under the new covenant of grace are just as sacred and holy as the (10) commandment and Yeshua says so through the apostles (Rom 7:12, 2Pt 2:21, 3:2).

 

[edward99]

It is repeated in Leviticus I know. Everyone must keep in mind that Sabbath does not mean seventh, rather it means rest, thus many special days are referred to as Sabbaths, not simply the seventh day.

OK Thank you JaumeJ.

But in the 10 Commandments, it is referring specifically to a day. And that the day is the 7th.

Exodus 20
8“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.


and not far along in Exodus there's more....(these are not ceremonial commandments, per Leviticus - this is still concerning the 7th day sabbath)

Exodus 23
12“Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves. 13“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.

Exodus 31:15
'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:14-15
'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.


Now this is repeated many times.

So, I really (honestly) do not know how we are to obey the sabbath day commandment if we simply ignore the parts of it we don't like. How do we explain this? Why are we not obeying the LORD and putting people to death who profane the sabbath? And why are we not being put to death when we profane it?

Is the idea that we are to observe the 7th day exactly as prescribed, but that we are not subject to the penalty for profaning it in any way? As in, if we (or another in our family or congregation) do profane the sabbath, do we just confess it and seek forgiveness? What about repentance?

Fellowship is with the sum total of the Body members of Yeshua, and they are scattered among many denominations and non-denominations. This is my fellowship because when the Holy Spirit entered into me much knowledge of the good news was magnified and elaborated upon instantly in my heart, soul and mind, however there was not a message or wisdom for my selecting a specific "church." It has only been recently that I have been blessed to encounter others who understand this. We will all be built up into one temple on His day and in His time, meanwhile the Chief and the Corner Stone is away, but soon He will return, amen.

Well, this part I most definitely have a problem with.

Nowhere does it say fellowship is with the "sum total" of the body of believers in the way you mean (in place of assembling together as a church)

You say much knowledge was instantly given to you in your heart, but that selecting a church was not given, nor the need to. Why did the Apostles establish actual churches (some had churches in homes); and why did Jesus Himself send letters to churches?

Is there something about Paul's epistles specifically you have issues with, because he most certainly made it clear we are to assemble in person face to face.

I assume we'll address this, since it's certainly pertinent to the OP (obeying the Lord).

 

[Red33]

You have the (10 C) commandments over here under the old covenant to the left represented under the law of the OT and on the right you have the new covenant with the new commandments under the grace, with Jesus Christ, the cross and His shed blood in the middle. You have those that trust in the shed blood of Christ for salvation and adhere to the (10 C), but for some reason want nothing to do with the new commandments under the new covenant of grace taught to the church by the apostles.

They accept the gospels but would rather not accept any of the teachings of the epistles, especially written by Paul to the churches throughout Asia Minor and surrounding areas. They have difficulty reckoning the writings to the church that came from a very zealous Hebrew man, who was a pronounced murderer of Christians, who was converted by our Lord Jesus Christ and commissioned by grace to bring the gospel to the Gentiles, with the writings of the gospel concerning our Lord. They would have no problem living unto Jesus Christ through those (10 C) without having to submit or obey any of the new commandments set forth under the new covenant.

Are we taught by the scriptures as new testament believers (both Jew and Gentile) to live this way and to walk this way before God and not acknowledge and live by faith-obedience to these new commandments we have been given under the gospel? They love to quote (Rev 14:12) but do not include the new commandments under the new covenant. There are also promises from that have been made under the new covenant of grace that are given to the believer in Christ, who make up the church body, that are also purposely ignored and refrained from when they were given in Christ and are all yea and amen to help the believer to have hope and escape the corruption that is in the world (2Cor 1:20, 2Pt 1:4, Heb 4:1,2). Do these precious promises count for nothing?

 

[JaumeJ]

OK Thank you JaumeJ.

But in the 10 Commandments, it is referring specifically to a day. And that the day is the 7th.

Exodus 20
8“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.


and not far along in Exodus there's more....(these are not ceremonial commandments, per Leviticus - this is still concerning the 7th day sabbath)

Exodus 23
12“Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves. 13“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.

Exodus 31:15
'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:14-15
'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.


Now this is repeated many times.

So, I really (honestly) do not know how we are to obey the sabbath day commandment if we simply ignore the parts of it we don't like. How do we explain this? Why are we not obeying the LORD and putting people to death who profane the sabbath? And why are we not being put to death when we profane it?

Is the idea that we are to observe the 7th day exactly as prescribed, but that we are not subject to the penalty for profaning it in any way? As in, if we (or another in our family or congregation) do profane the sabbath, do we just confess it and seek forgiveness? What about repentance?



Well, this part I most definitely have a problem with.

Nowhere does it say fellowship is with the "sum total" of the body of believers in the way you mean (in place of assembling together as a church)

You say much knowledge was instantly given to you in your heart, but that selecting a church was not given, nor the need to. Why did the Apostles establish actual churches (some had churches in homes); and why did Jesus Himself send letters to churches?

Is there something about Paul's epistles specifically you have issues with, because he most certainly made it clear we are to assemble in person face to face.

I assume we'll address this, since it's certainly pertinent to the OP (obeying the Lord).

From my understanding, Paul addressed himself, and his letters to the representation of the Body of Yeshua in given cities or areas. The building churches were not yet in existence, most worship was in homes. Whether this is clear to all or not, my own experience when I fellowshipped face-to-face with my beloved brethren it was a disaster. The elder dubbed me demon possessed when I related that Jesus Christ was a Jew. This was in the presence of the entire congregation. My only defense in words was the following, "The God I worship is the God of order and not of chaos, if anyone here indeed sees that I have a demon, by all means please cast it out, because no one would receive that gift without being also capable of casting it out." There was utter silence, a few mouths opened in silence as a departed their presence. I do not condemn them for having their blinders on, but I am not about to experience this again with congregations who hate Jews so much they will deny the birth roots of the Savior. No there was no more to the story, that is exactly what occurred over 40 years ago. I believe Jesus, Yeshua, and if it bothers or hurts other possible`Body Members, then it is my duty not to expose them to my practice of worship. I love anyone who loves Yeshua, Jesus, for Who He was and is, but I cannot endure `certain hypocrisy. Yahweh has always been present in my walk, in one manner or another, and by this I mean with His working in my life. I cannot ask for more. At that time I was traveling by thumb lots sharing the Word, and distributing Bibles free to whomever would receive them. The Lord made certain I was cared for, and I received monies from no one, yet the congregation could not see I was alright, praying aloud in my presence for the Lord to give "Jack a job," although I was not a burden to one of them, not in the slightest, not a penny, not a bed to sleep in. Yet they were worried I was not working, enough to feign asking God in my presence so I could hear, to get a job. Go figure on that one. I was sharing the Word in several States, not a burden to anyone, distributing free Bibles, and all they could see is I was not working. I never did quite get that one. They are still beloved but totally close minded in my humble esteem. Also, I keep in mind the Lord told me in a dream, long before that my way is different, dark, a rough road going up, and the words, "There will be no trees on this way." I do not run my life by any dream, but it sure seems to be true.

 

[JaumeJ]

OK Thank you JaumeJ.

But in the 10 Commandments, it is referring specifically to a day. And that the day is the 7th.

Exodus 20
8“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.


and not far along in Exodus there's more....(these are not ceremonial commandments, per Leviticus - this is still concerning the 7th day sabbath)

Exodus 23
12“Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves. 13“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let them be heard from your mouth.

Exodus 31:15
'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:14-15
'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.


Now this is repeated many times.

So, I really (honestly) do not know how we are to obey the sabbath day commandment if we simply ignore the parts of it we don't like. How do we explain this? Why are we not obeying the LORD and putting people to death who profane the sabbath? And why are we not being put to death when we profane it?

Is the idea that we are to observe the 7th day exactly as prescribed, but that we are not subject to the penalty for profaning it in any way? As in, if we (or another in our family or congregation) do profane the sabbath, do we just confess it and seek forgiveness? What about repentance?



Well, this part I most definitely have a problem with.

Nowhere does it say fellowship is with the "sum total" of the body of believers in the way you mean (in place of assembling together as a church)

You say much knowledge was instantly given to you in your heart, but that selecting a church was not given, nor the need to. Why did the Apostles establish actual churches (some had churches in homes); and why did Jesus Himself send letters to churches?

Is there something about Paul's epistles specifically you have issues with, because he most certainly made it clear we are to assemble in person face to face.

I assume we'll address this, since it's certainly pertinent to the OP (obeying the Lord).

I would forget my head were it not attached. As long as what we do is to God, it is blessed. To one all days are the same, and to another one day is esteemed over another. The same holds true with food. As for fellowshipping face-to-face, I do this whenever I am here with the spirit filled, or on the street, or with a neighbor, but as for selecting the "true" group, I will leave that to those wiser than I. meanwhile, I continue believing, it is not always easy, but it is the way I have been given to honor the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and I believe it is from God. What God has made clean, let no man call common............amen.

 

[superdave5221]

I see these kind of things as growing pains, we all go through them, then hopefully, we all will mature and eat meat.

The path is not always perfect, but what matters, is that we are on the right path, walking with Jesus.

God bless
pickles

Well said pickles.

Jesus said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments". [John 14:15.]

So what comes first? Love, or keeping the commandments?

Our willingness to keep the commandments is predicated on our ability to love Christ.

And what good is keeping the commandments through a force of effort, if we do not love God?

Jesus said that "these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me", quoting Isaiah (29:13) in Matthew 15:8.

It seems that Jesus was more concerned with people keeping the commandments through love, rather than to honor the law.

This said, keeping the commandments should not be trivialized. If you have heard the expression, "walk a mile in my shoes" before, it means to share an understanding with that person. When we obey the commandments, we walk in Jesus' shoes, so to speak, so that we come to know him more fully, and thus it strenghens and grows our relationship with him. This should be something to be desired.

 

[edward99]

It is repeated in Leviticus I know. Everyone must keep in mind that Sabbath does not mean seventh, rather it means rest, thus many special days are referred to as Sabbaths, not simply the seventh day.

Jaume:
Concerning the sabbath day commandment

I know this is an issue that will come up, if it hasn't already. It's going to be of help to me to sort this out.
People debate whether or not Paul was referring to the 7th day sabbath here. I believe he was, but I don't read greek (or hebrew).

Colossians 2:16
Let no man disturb you about food or about drink or in the distinctions of feasts and beginnings of months and Sabbaths
Aramaic BPE

Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holyday or of the new moon or of the sabbath days
KJV

Since we're fortunate to have you able to read Hebrew, could you tell me what is written specifically: "sabbaths" (as it appears in some English translations - also: "sabbath"; "the sabbath days"; "a sabbath day" etc.)

What does it actually say in the Hebrew here? Is it the weekly (7th day) sabbath?

על כן לא ידין איש אתכם על דבר מאכל ומשקה או בענין המועדים וראשי חדשים ושבתות׃

here it is in Aramaic (5pt):

ܠܐ ܗܟܝܠ ܐܢܫ ܢܕܘܕܟܘܢ ܒܡܐܟܠܐ ܘܒܡܫܬܝܐ ܐܘ ܒܦܘܠܓܐ ܕܥܐܕܐ ܘܕܪܝܫ ܝܪܚܐ ܘܕܫܒܐ ܀


Englishman's Concordance has it:

σαββάτων
sabbatōn


Thayer's

σάββατον, σαββάτου, τό (Hebrew שַׁבָּ&#1514


Strong's

Word Origin
of Hebrew origin shabbath
Definition
the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
NASB Word Usage
Sabbath (58), Sabbaths (1), week (9).

Sabbath day

Of Hebrew origin (shabbath); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. The interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications -- sabbath (day), week.


In any case: the next question I have would be what did he mean Let no man judge/disturb you?

Here's the context, of course (NASB)

Colossians 2
You Are Built Up in Christ

1For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, 2that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. 5For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.
6Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

20If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.


This part:

things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

seems to be saying those things were the shadow of Christ Who is the Substance; the foreshadow, if you will, of Him. Would you agree with this?

 

[edward99]

I would forget my head were it not attached. As long as what we do is to God, it is blessed. To one all days are the same, and to another one day is esteemed over another. The same holds true with food. As for fellowshipping face-to-face, I do this whenever I am here with the spirit filled, or on the street, or with a neighbor, but as for selecting the "true" group, I will leave that to those wiser than I. meanwhile, I continue believing, it is not always easy, but it is the way I have been given to honor the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and I believe it is from God. What God has made clean, let no man call common............amen.

Haha. Okay.
I posted again before I saw this.



Now concerning the commandments given by Jesus Himself, what about the New Covenant ordinance of Communion?

Matthew 26
The Lord’s Supper Instituted

26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29 “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Mark 14
The Lord’s Supper

22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 22
The Lord’s Supper

14When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood

1 Corinthians 10:16
Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 11
The Lord’s Supper

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

 

[JaumeJ]

Haha. Okay.
I posted again before I saw this.



Now concerning the commandments given by Jesus Himself, what about the New Covenant ordinance of Communion?

Matthew 26
The Lord’s Supper Instituted

26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29 “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Mark 14
The Lord’s Supper

22While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25“Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 22
The Lord’s Supper

14When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood

1 Corinthians 10:16
Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 11
The Lord’s Supper

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Thank you lots. Actually, I did make reference to the teaching that one day may be esteemed over another, but I did not get the teaching and cut and paste it. What we do, if we do it to (for) God, it is noted by God, and not really so important what any man may think or deem it. Everything you have said is in the Word and it is true, amen. About communion, that Word is used in relation to breaking bread and drinking the wine in memory of Jesus Christ. I believe this to be always good and obedient to remember Him by, but communion is also our way of living His Way for each of us. When we pray, give thanks for what we eat, interact in His name, everything we do because of Him is definitely part of communion, and all is very important to our being in the sight of Yahweh, I believe, His Body in our Walk is the Word portrayed by each of us, and His Blood is the life we live because of Him, amen.

 

[Red33]

Of course Red33...because you know the ten commandments are such a horrible standard to live by regardless. Your interpretation must be far and above better than everyone else's. I mean if Jaume was living by the Code of Hammurabi then yeah there is cause for concern. But it's the ten commandments, whats the big deal. He has also professed his faith in Jesus. Im starting to think you argue with people simply because you are incapable of civil conversations.

The (10C) are not horrible, but if you live by them according to the law and offend any of them even in one point, then you are guilty of breaking them all. What do you think of that? Should God throw the book at you when you transgress in even one point, wouldn't God be just if He did? After all your guilty, shouldn't you be responsible as a transgressor and pay for offending? JaumeJ has probably broken the (10C) but does not want the judgment associated with being a transgressor. Isn't that being dishonest about keeping the commandments? If he keeps the (10C) because he believes it honors God, what do you think he believes about those who do not keep the (10C)? As a believer, I am either under the law of keeping the commandments or I am under grace to abide in Christ who has fulfilled and keeps them for me through the Spirit when I walk by faith.

 

[damombomb]

I dont want to sin, because of grace. His ways are pure , holy,righteous, clean. The 10 commandments show us what is sin, how are we convicted over anything unless we know its wrong?

 

[Red33]

I dont want to sin, because of grace. His ways are pure , holy,righteous, clean. The 10 commandments show us what is sin, how are we convicted over anything unless we know its wrong?

Before the law of the (10) commandment that came to Moses, did man have any indication of sin from Adam to Moses?

Rom 5:12-14

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Before the law of the (10) commandments came to Moses, sin was in the world but sin was not imputed. When the law came sin was imputed until Christ came as the Lamb of God and He took away the sin of the world, to reconcile the world, no longer imputing their sins and trespasses unto them...

2Cor 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Before the law sin was not imputed and after Christ fulfilled the law and suffered the wages of sin through His own death, God no longer imputes sin to man, because all sin was judged and imputed to the Son, who died as us and for us. The cross has nullified the purpose of the law which was to make sin exceedingly sinful by imputing it to sinful man.

Gal 3:11-19
11 Now it is evident that no person is justified (declared righteous and brought into right standing with God) through the Law, for the Scripture says, The man in right standing with God [the just, the righteous] shall live by and out of faith and he who through and by faith is declared righteous and in right standing with God shall live.
12 But the Law does not rest on faith [does not require faith, has nothing to do with faith], for it itself says, He who does them [the things prescribed by the Law] shall live by them [not by faith].
13 Christ purchased our freedom [redeeming us] from the curse (doom) of the Law [and its condemnation] by [Himself] becoming a curse for us, for it is written [in the Scriptures], Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (is crucified);
14 To the end that through [their receiving] Christ Jesus, the blessing [promised] to Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, so that we through faith might [all] receive [the realization of] the promise of the [Holy] Spirit.
15 To speak in terms of human relations, brethren, [if] even a man makes a last will and testament (a merely human covenant), no one sets it aside or makes it void or adds to it when once it has been drawn up and signed (ratified, confirmed).
16 Now the promises (covenants, agreements) were decreed and made to Abraham and his Seed (his Offspring, his Heir). He [God] does not say, And to seeds (descendants, heirs), as if referring to many persons, but, And to your Seed (your Descendant, your Heir), obviously referring to one individual, Who is [none other than] Christ (the Messiah).
17 This is my argument: The Law, which began 430 years after the covenant [concerning the coming Messiah], does not and cannot annul the covenant previously established (ratified) by God, so as to abolish the promise and make it void.
18 For if the inheritance [of the promise depends on observing] the Law [as these false teachers would like you to believe], it no longer [depends] on the promise; however, God gave it to Abraham [as a free gift solely] by virtue of His promise.
19 What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. And it [the Law] was arranged and ordained and appointed through the instrumentality of angels [and was given] by the hand (in the person) of a go-between [Moses, an intermediary person between God and man].

 

[pickles]

We are asked not to sin. Sin finds its power in the laws and commandments. If we disobey Yahweh, we are sinning. It is as simple as that. The only complicated man-made issue here is which laws? Easy, follow the Example of Jesus, where mercy is there can be no sin. This does not mean licencious behavior; it means responsible behavior. Now I realize this, for some, this is even more complicated, but when we observe the great law of love, we know which course of action to adopt, always. Perhaps for some, being asked to act according to this great law is yet complicated. I suggest then they reexamine heart, soul and mind seeking to discern their own motives in approaching this subject at all, above all in the event they would suggest to others any understanding of the question at all.

For me the struggle is that I see not just the law and commandments, but the heart's motive and choice for self, sin.
But also see the desire to seek always the greatest comandment.
Maby I ask too much of self, but even in this I see the selfish motives.
Understand, I do not see condemnation or judgement, but simply the flesh, what man is when in flesh.
My hearts desire is to witness to and to give the whole heart to Jesus.
Yet, Im beginning to see now this is impossible on our own, but as Jesus said, notning is impossible with God!
Thankyou Jesus for making all possible!

God bless
pickles

 

[JaumeJ]

For me the struggle is that I see not just the law and commandments, but the heart's motive and choice for self, sin.
But also see the desire to seek always the greatest comandment.
Maby I ask too much of self, but even in this I see the selfish motives.
Understand, I do not see condemnation or judgement, but simply the flesh, what man is when in flesh.
My hearts desire is to witness to and to give the whole heart to Jesus.
Yet, Im beginning to see now this is impossible on our own, but as Jesus said, notning is impossible with God!
Thankyou Jesus for making all possible!

God bless
pickles

Pickles, from what I have noted in this fellowship is a great big heart in regard to you. As for the Law. Of course the Law still applies because without it we could not even consider having grace. I mean, why would we need grace if Law does not apply, and with grace we are exempt of the Law. Sound like double talk? Jesus, Yeshua has taught us the great Law of Love, first the Father and second our fellow man, contain all of the Law when observed. We are under grace because we recognize that although we know the Law of God is perfect and good, no man can abide by it. Thus we must have grace so when we do fail, we are always forgiven because Yeshua is constantly there to intermediate for all of us poor imperfect ones to the Father. Grace makes us immune to death because death has its power in the Law, in our breaking the Law. Death has lost its sting because you and I and all who Love are living in Grace. We no longer break the laws willfully, but there are times we do break it, and the grace under which we all live neutralizes that horrid sting of death.....amen

 

[pickles]

I understand and have read these words Jaume, .
The scripture: when you love the Lord with your whole heart, then you shall see His face.
It has been my heart's desire since I can remember.
Yet, I know how much flesh is still keeping me from this.
Simply because I see every one of my sins, as saying this part does not love you Lord.
Please do not misunderstand, I know none of us can do this on our own, only by grace are we saved.
I know this is the goal of every heart in Jesus.
Its just , if one trully looks to Jesus, one can see that Jesus fullfilled the law, brought us to the greatest commandment.
That you love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart soul and streangth, and your neighbor as yourself.
On this, all the laws are based.
This has always told me that we are called to know and live in the perfect, Jesus,recieving and loving in God's love.

God bless
pickles

 

[JaumeJ]

I understand and have read these words Jaume, .
The scripture: when you love the Lord with your whole heart, then you shall see His face.
It has been my heart's desire since I can remember.
Yet, I know how much flesh is still keeping me from this.
Simply because I see every one of my sins, as saying this part does not love you Lord.
Please do not misunderstand, I know none of us can do this on our own, only by grace are we saved.
I know this is the goal of every heart in Jesus.
Its just , if one trully looks to Jesus, one can see that Jesus fullfilled the law, brought us to the greatest commandment.
That you love the Lord your God with all your mind, heart soul and streangth, and your neighbor as yourself.
On this, all the laws are based.
This has always told me that we are called to know and live in the perfect, Jesus,recieving and loving in God's love.

God bless
pickles

Same words, again, different manner:
If the law were not still valid, then why is grace necessary? With this understanding we realize it is a given that although we love Yeshua, we must live under grace because He knows our frame. He knows if we love Him, and we do love Him, but grace is yet necessary for each of us. Anyone who says He loves Jesus, and says he does not sin is a liar and the truth is not in Him. This said, we are not sinners in only this regard, because of grace it is not imputed against us. This is wonderful, and it is sad at the same time because we love Yeshua, and we are not yet perfect as is He. The important point here is that we are BEING perfected, we are not perfecting ourselves. This is not a circular explanation it is real, amen. We, each one of us, must allow the Lord to perfect us and stop struggling.

 

[pickles]

Actually I think that is the point Im trying to make.
I do struggle to find the right words sometimes, but also be careful in what I say.
I have to remember that all is always in God's care.
But, Im trying to speak to the perfect here, that moment, when in prayer, when we see the perfect love, a glimce.
I think it is refured to as the taste of heaven in scripture.
The perfect love , that Jesus has for us, that is so great, that one can see how one in Jesus, can love even their worst enemy .
How the things of the world that say one can walk away, or does not have to, yet in Jesus, you can see how His great love concurs any hate or evil.
Simply because there is no self, only Gods perfect love.
In His perfect love there is no injury, hate , anger, need, want or sin.
This is the love that the laws are based in, the commandments, all that Jesus suffered the cross for, that God Our Father has for us.
I know we cannot do this on our own, that is why grace is the gift we recieve through faith.
But one can hope in Jesus for this.

God bless
pickles