Healing through the Son

[DJ2]

Matthew 8:16 ...and healed all who were sick.
Matthew 14:14 ...and healed their sick.
Matthew 19:2 ...and He healed them there.
Matthew 12:15 ...and He healed them all.
Mark 6:56 ...and as many who touched Him were made well.
Mark 3:10 For He healed many, so that as many as had sicknesses pressed about Him to touch Him.
Luke 4:40 ...and He laid His hands on everyone of them and healed them.
Luke 6:19 ...and healed them all.
Luke 5:17 ...and the power of the Lord was present to heal them.
Luke 9:1 ...and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure aliments.
Luke 9:11 ...and healed those who were in need of healing.
Acts 5:16 ...and all of them were healed.

The first century was an age of the miraculous. That age has passed. We now live in an age of faith without sight. A truly remarkable one to be in. An age ruled by a faith in a unseen God, an age of hope in what is to be and not what is and an age of blessings for those who have not seen yet believe.

I certainly realize that this is not a popular stand but we do not live in an of the miraculous. If we did we would not have such discussions as these. Can God cure today? Of course. But what is being pushed today by many on this forum and in many churches is both a fraud and mocks the truly miraculous.

The verses I presented are the true nature of a miraculous age, what is going on today pales in comparison. If the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit were present today this debate would end now!

 

[joaniemarie]

1. Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole.
   - Isaiah 53:4–5 (AMP)
2. But He was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.
   - Isaiah 53:5 (NLT)
3. …who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
   - 1 Peter 2:24
4. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
   - Romans 8:11
5. He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
   - Romans 8:32
6. Suddenly, a man with leprosy approached Him and knelt before Him. “Lord,” the man said, “if You are willing, You can heal me and make me clean.” Jesus reached out and touched him. “I am willing,” He said. “Be healed!” And instantly the leprosy disappeared.
   - Matthew 8:2–3 (NLT)
7. “Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble, and He saved them from their distress. He sent out His word and healed them, snatching them from the door of death.
   - Psalm 107:19–20 (NLT)
8. For He will rescue you from every trap and protect you from deadly disease.
   - Psalm 91:3 (NLT)
9. He also brought them out with silver and gold, and there was none feeble among His tribes.
   - Psalm 105:37
10. Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.
    - 3 John 1:2 (NASB)
11. “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have [it] more abundantly.”
    - John 10:10
12. Do not be afraid of the terrors of the night, nor the arrow that flies in the day. Do not dread the disease that stalks in darkness, nor the disaster that strikes at midday. Though a thousand fall at your side, though ten thousand are dying around you, these evils will not touch you.
    - Psalm 91:5–7 (NLT)
13. With long life I will satisfy him, and show him My salvation.
    - Psalm 91:16
14. “…I am the Lord who heals you.”
    - Exodus 15:26
15. “I will give you back your health and heal your wounds,” says the Lord.
    - Jeremiah 30:17 (NLT)
16. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.
    - Psalm 103:2–3
17. My son, give attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart; for they [are] life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh.
    - Proverbs 4:20-22

EVERYONE WHO CAME TO JESUS WAS HEALED

1. And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.
   - Matthew 4:23
2. News about Him spread as far as Syria, and people soon began bringing to Him all who were sick. And whatever their sickness or disease, or if they were demon-possessed or epileptic or paralyzed—He healed them all.
   - Matthew 4:24 (NLT)
3. When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” Jesus said to him, “I will go and heal him.”
   - Matthew 8: 5–7 (NIV)
4. When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities and bore [our] sicknesses.”
   - Matthew 8:16–17
5. …Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home!
   - Matthew 9:6–7 (NLT)
6. Then great multitudes came to Him, having with them [the] lame, blind, mute, maimed, and many others; and they laid them down at Jesus’ feet, and He healed them.
   - Matthew 15:30
7. Jesus had compassion on them and touched their eyes. Immediately they received their sight and followed Him.
   - Matthew 20:34 (NIV)
8. And He entered the synagogue again, and a man was there who had a withered hand. So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. And He said to the man who had the withered hand, “Step forward.” Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent. And when He had looked around at them with anger, being grieved by the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched [it] out, and his hand was restored as whole as the other.
   - Mark 3:1–5
9. A woman in the crowd had suffered for twelve years with constant bleeding. She had suffered a great deal from many doctors, and over the years she had spent everything she had to pay them, but she had gotten no better. In fact, she had gotten worse. She had heard about Jesus, so she came up behind Him through the crowd and touched His robe. For she thought to herself, “If I can just touch His robe, I will be healed.” Immediately the bleeding stopped, and she could feel in her body that she had been healed of her terrible condition.
   - Mark 5:25–29 (NLT)
10. Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.” So they called to the blind man, “Cheer up! On your feet! He’s calling you.” Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus. “What do you want Me to do for you?” Jesus asked him. The blind man said, “Rabbi, I want to see.” “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
    - Mark 10:49–52 (NIV)
11. When the sun was setting, all those who had any that were sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and He laid His hands on every one of them and healed them.
    - Luke 4:40
12. And the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed [them] all.
    - Luke 6:19
13. A funeral procession was coming out as He approached the village gate. The young man who had died was a widow’s only son, and a large crowd from the village was with her. When the Lord saw her, His heart overflowed with compassion. “Don’t cry!” He said. Then He walked over to the coffin and touched it, and the bearers stopped. “Young man,” He said, “I tell you, get up.” Then the dead boy sat up and began to talk! And Jesus gave him back to his mother.
    - Luke 7:12–15 (NLT)
14. And a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, He called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” Then He put His hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
    - Luke 13:11–13 (NIV)
15. One of the men lying there had been sick for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him and knew he had been ill for a long time, He asked him, “Would you like to get well?” “I can’t, sir,” the sick man said, “for I have no one to put me into the pool when the water bubbles up. Someone else always gets there ahead of me.” Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!” Instantly, the man was healed! He rolled up his sleeping mat and began walking!
    - John 5:5–9 (NLT)
16. “…how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
    - Acts 10:38

Jesus the same yesterday., today and forever.

 

[DJ2]

Jesus the same yesterday., today and forever.

Your verses prove yesterday but most certainly do not prove today.

 

[Didymous]

What I've learned from being in, and engaging in, debates about Christianity is this: If you have to engage in ANY kind of name calling, for any reason, then you've lost. Credibility is more important than winning, and integrity wins every time.

 

[Cee]

Your verses prove yesterday but most certainly do not prove today.

I hear you, but D12 If Jesus is the same yesterday and today, it's not needed.

And I don't look to my own personal experiences to determine my Scriptural theology.

 

[joaniemarie]

Your verses prove yesterday but most certainly do not prove today.

I believe the Bible says these verses are for today. Amen.

 

[joaniemarie]

What I've learned from being in, and engaging in, debates about Christianity is this: If you have to engage in ANY kind of name calling, for any reason, then you've lost. Credibility is more important than winning, and integrity wins every time.

I agree with that too.

 

[wolfwint]

The Bible says when we want to see the Father we look at the Son. That is the way to interpret the Bible and rightly divide the Word of truth. Is Jesus being revealed in us? Is He being revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Bible? That is how to rightly interpret the Word of God today. The Holy Spirit leads us into ALL truth. We cannot understand the Scriptures without the Holy Spirit revealing Christ to us.

If you don't agree that is your prerogative.

How you Can claim to know God by ignoring his word? You hold that for right, what you think it is right.

 

[wolfwint]

It takes the Holy Spirit to show us the truth of who Jesus is., and to see who God the Father is. When we see God through the old covenant mindset there is a veil over our eyes. It was true for me as a Christian. Never heard of new covenant Christians trying to live under the old covenant and ended up spinning their wheels sort of speak. I figured the requirements were all the same but they are not. Covenants are all different. And today we live under the covenant of grace not works.


John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]

40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.

The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )

Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40

Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.

Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )

God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.

A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.

Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!

He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.

The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.

In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )

The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.

The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote

[/QUOTE]
You are right, the Bible is not God, but His revealed Word to us. So if the Holy Spirit revealed to you something what is not written ore oppose to to that what is written I would Doubt that is the Holy Spirit. If you Read Job, 2, 1-10, who gave Job in the Hand of Satan.? The Lord! If you deney this, how can you say the Holy Spirit revealed it to you? Is it not revealed from some of your quotet preachers who revealed this to you and not Jesus our Lord?
I believe that the Holy Spirit revealed the truth in His word.

 

[joaniemarie]

You are right, the Bible is not God, but His revealed Word to us. So if the Holy Spirit revealed to you something what is not written ore oppose to to that what is written I would Doubt that is the Holy Spirit. If you Read Job, 2, 1-10, who gave Job in the Hand of Satan.? The Lord! If you deney this, how can you say the Holy Spirit revealed it to you? Is it not revealed from some of your quotet preachers who revealed this to you and not Jesus our Lord?
I believe that the Holy Spirit revealed the truth in His word.[/QUOTE]



The Holy Spirit didn't lead me to anything different than what the Bible says. Read what I said in my posts...not what you think I said. I'll re post it for you...


John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]

40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.

The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )

Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40

Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.

Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )

God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.

A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.

Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!

He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.

The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.

In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )

The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.

The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote

 

[DJ2]

I hear you, but D12 If Jesus is the same yesterday and today, it's not needed.

And I don't look to my own personal experiences to determine my Scriptural theology.

First, phrases such as "Jesus is the same yesterday & today" is bumper sticker theology. Sounds catchy both meaningless. Secondly, Jesus has been different things at different times and certainly will be different when He returns.

 

[DJ2]

I believe the Bible says these verses are for today. Amen.

Regardless what you or anyone else "believes" what these verses say, we are not living in a miraculous age as was the 1st century. If the Bible teaches that the miraculous age of the New Testament continues today then the Bible is a fraud, which is certainly not the case.

 

[wolfwint]

You are right, the Bible is not God, but His revealed Word to us. So if the Holy Spirit revealed to you something what is not written ore oppose to to that what is written I would Doubt that is the Holy Spirit. If you Read Job, 2, 1-10, who gave Job in the Hand of Satan.? The Lord! If you deney this, how can you say the Holy Spirit revealed it to you? Is it not revealed from some of your quotet preachers who revealed this to you and not Jesus our Lord?
I believe that the Holy Spirit revealed the truth in His word.

The Holy Spirit didn't lead me to anything different than what the Bible says. Read what I said in my posts...not what you think I said. I'll re post it for you...


John 5:39-40 is Jesus speaking to the Jews that rejected Him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these [very Scriptures] testify about Me!
[SUP]

40 [/SUP]And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
We can make the scriptures "God" When I say that - it is really our "interpretation" of the scriptures that we make to be a "god" in our own mind. Without the Holy Spirit's revelation to show us Christ - we are at the mercy of our own religious un-renewed minds.

The Bible is not a roadmap or instruction manual in a"completed" sense. The Bible is NOT God - God breathed - inspired - YES!
But the Bible is a book about Jesus. The Bible is not an end to itself - the Bible speaks of Jesus. He is the true reality that the scriptures speak off ( This is why there is so much controversy on the Sabbath Day issue )

Jesus said "...you search the scriptures because you think ( human reasoning ) "in them" you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." John 5:39-40

Reading the Bible without wanting to know and see Jesus and the Father for whom they truly are is like reading someone else's love letters. You might learn a few things about love but this will not move you toward the one who wrote the letters.

Some people get confused because they think the Bible has all the answers - it does not. It does however point us to the One who "is"the answer! James never said - "If anyone lacks wisdom you should study the Bible - He said - you should ask God Himself. James 1:5 ( God may use a verse in the scriptures or a word from another teacher...etc )

God surely speaks to us through the Bible but if the Bible doesn't lead you to the revelation of the One called Wisdom - you will be no wiser than a Pharisee. If we look for Jesus - the Holy Spirit will reveal Him in the Old Testament.

A mis-guided ( albeit maybe a well intentioned ) teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to tell you what you should do, but a grace/Christ oriented teacher/preacher will use the scriptures to show you what Jesus has done and who you are in Him now because we are in Christ and He is in us. The Holy Spirit in us teaches/guides/reveals to us Jesus and the Father's true character and finished work.

Read the scriptures with the view to "see" Jesus. In Him we see the heart and will of the Father being manifested on this earth. The best translation of the Bible is Jesus!

He is the "living word" within the written word and He is flawless and free of translation errors. All of man's translations have biases and inaccuracies. Sometimes translators give their "doctrinal beliefs" when translating a verse or word.

The scriptures teach us that we are not living by the teaching of the Bible per se - we are living by the life of Christ in us. The source of our life is not the Bible - the source of our life is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.

In the Old Testament when it refers to "the word of God" and the life it brings - it was in reality talking about "the living word of God" ( Jesus Himself ) - of which the scriptures are a "shadow" of the real substance - Jesus. ( another reason why strict Sabbath Keepers cannot see Christ as our true Sabbath rest now in the New Covenant - they are stuck in the shadow and think that it is the real )

The Bible shows us the ways Jesus Christ wants to express His life through us to a hurt and dying world. In Him we live, move and have our being. The Bible leads us to the source of life = Jesus Himself.

The Bible is NOT God but we can make our own interpretations of the Bible to be our "god" in our own un-renewed minds. The Holy Spirit has come in us to show us the things "of Christ" and reveal them to us - His beloved children.
Unquote


[/QUOTE]

I read what you said, and this why I wrote what I wrote.

 

[joaniemarie]

Well guys., I'm thankful to be able to say I don't believe the way you do. God is in the business of doing miracles every day and I'm thankful to be on the receiving end of my Father's love and grace. Jesus already paid for these great and precious promises and I and other Christians do believe and see them come to pass daily. I hope you both come to believe too.

 

[1ofthem]

Well guys., I'm thankful to be able to say I don't believe the way you do. God is in the business of doing miracles every day and I'm thankful to be on the receiving end of my Father's love and grace. Jesus already paid for these great and precious promises and I and other Christians do believe and see them come to pass daily. I hope you both come to believe too.

I agree with you that God does still heal and perform miracles. I don't just believe that.... I know it for a fact. I've been healed by God and seen others that have been.

And in regards to your last post to me, I also agree that God takes better care of us than we do ourselves. He is God and he knows what is best for each of us. He gives us good things according to his will. Might not be exactly what we ask for or want, but he does give us what we need and what is best for us. He works all things for our good.

I thought about this today while I was sitting outside on my porch enjoying the beautiful day and talking with the Lord.

Here is what came to mind:

When I was 15 I started begging my dad to buy me a GT Mustang when I turned 16. He was having none of it...Not because he wanted to break my heart and be mean to me...He knew me well and knew what was best for me. He knew I liked fast cars and would have been driving that car too fast and put myself or someone else in danger. So no matter how much I begged and pleaded...I ended up with a 4 cyl. Toyota... He's my father and loves me so he still got me a car just not the one I wanted because he knew what was best for me.

The same can be said for the Lord. He is our father and loves us and he knows the best for each and everyone of us. He gives us what we need and what is best for us. He works all things to our good and we should have faith and trust in him to do what is best for us and praise him in all things.

 

[joaniemarie]

I agree with you that God does still heal and perform miracles. I don't just believe that.... I know it for a fact. I've been healed by God and seen others that have been.

And in regards to your last post to me, I also agree that God takes better care of us than we do ourselves. He is God and he knows what is best for each of us. He gives us good things according to his will. Might not be exactly what we ask for or want, but he does give us what we need and what is best for us. He works all things for our good.

I thought about this today while I was sitting outside on my porch enjoying the beautiful day and talking with the Lord.

Here is what came to mind:

When I was 15 I started begging my dad to buy me a GT Mustang when I turned 16. He was having none of it...Not because he wanted to break my heart and be mean to me...He knew me well and knew what was best for me. He knew I liked fast cars and would have been driving that car too fast and put myself or someone else in danger. So no matter how much I begged and pleaded...I ended up with a 4 cyl. Toyota... He's my father and loves me so he still got me a car just not the one I wanted because he knew what was best for me.

The same can be said for the Lord. He is our father and loves us and he knows the best for each and everyone of us. He gives us what we need and what is best for us. He works all things to our good and we should have faith and trust in him to do what is best for us and praise him in all things.

I agree with you 1ofthem., And I've also discovered He teaches us as we mature how to desire the good and right things He has for us. As we grow up in Christ., we learn about His will in our lives. We pray for it each day. I've learned to count on it through thick and thin.

Life brings with it trials and errors and God promises to "set a table before us in the presence of our enemies" We will have no enemies in heaven. Here is where the enemies are and they are in the form of the world...the flesh and the devil.

We need to know His will and His many great and precious promises today as well as for when we get to heaven. In heaven we will not need faith to live. We will be walking without this annoying flesh that has to deal with so many issues that can blind us to the reality of Jesus. We will see Him as He is without any seeing through a glass dimly.

Today I've discovered that I have to believe in His ability to take care of me even when it looks like by the worlds standards all is lost. And Praise Jesus He comes through each day. He has never left me or forsaken me as I go to Him to fulfill the promises in His Word. They are all YES and AMEN. I believe that and am learning to walk it out daily.

And healing in the atonement as well as many other promises that I've already posted are part of what Jesus has died to give us today. I see it clearly in the Scriptures. Even if some here don't. So I'm happy to agree to disagree on this matter of healing that each one has here on cc. Whether a person is for or against healing., I know Jesus has provided much for each one of us in this Sozo salvation. There is more to learn each day about what Jesus did and who He is to us and for us and through us.

 

[joaniemarie]

Was listening to a Bible message this afternoon and the preacher said it well about us Christians with our human reasoning that ALWAYS gets in the way if we don't STOP AND THINK; FAITH IN JESUS.

When Peter was walking on the water towards Jesus it was AMAZING.... but then he began to see the winds and waves get higher and got frightened and began to sink. Peter forgot in seconds that walking on water was totally supernatural from the start., he was walking on water... did he think that he could walk on water if it was peaceful?

So easily our human reasoning takes over making us idiots. Salvation and walking on water ...It's not natural! It's REDEMPTION. Us Christians have to stop depending on ourselves. We can't afford to do that. We can't prop up a corps that's dead. What creation can't do., redemption supplies. We have meager resources, Jesus has unending resources.

But thankfully Jesus knows our frame that we are but dust and He supplies grace each day. He supplies the Holy Spirit for us each day and He has not left us alone in our humanity. But we have to walk by faith and not by sight because otherwise we won't see what Jesus is willing and wanting to do in us and for us.

P.S. Today as a mature adult who has learned about the value of different cars., I'd take a Toyota over any other car because Toyota's IMO are the best. (Jesus got me a Toyota)

 

[1ofthem]

I agree with you 1ofthem., And I've also discovered He teaches us as we mature how to desire the good and right things He has for us. As we grow up in Christ., we learn about His will in our lives. We pray for it each day. I've learned to count on it through thick and thin.

Life brings with it trials and errors and God promises to "set a table before us in the presence of our enemies" We will have no enemies in heaven. Here is where the enemies are and they are in the form of the world...the flesh and the devil.

We need to know His will and His many great and precious promises today as well as for when we get to heaven. In heaven we will not need faith to live. We will be walking without this annoying flesh that has to deal with so many issues that can blind us to the reality of Jesus. We will see Him as He is without any seeing through a glass dimly.

Today I've discovered that I have to believe in His ability to take care of me even when it looks like by the worlds standards all is lost. And Praise Jesus He comes through each day. He has never left me or forsaken me as I go to Him to fulfill the promises in His Word. They are all YES and AMEN. I believe that and am learning to walk it out daily.

And healing in the atonement as well as many other promises that I've already posted are part of what Jesus has died to give us today. I see it clearly in the Scriptures. Even if some here don't. So I'm happy to agree to disagree on this matter of healing that each one has here on cc. Whether a person is for or against healing., I know Jesus has provided much for each one of us in this Sozo salvation. There is more to learn each day about what Jesus did and who He is to us and for us and through us.

Yeah, I believe in healing and miracles and I am definitely for them. I just do not see healing as part of the atonement. To me the atonement is spiritual not physical. If it were physical, I would expect to see everyone healed instantly upon being saved. When we are saved it is instant...once the blood of the lamb is applied to our souls God no longer looks at us as sinners but he sees us as his children. I think if healing was included in the atonement then everyone should be healed as soon as they were saved.

That's my thoughts on it anyhow...and yeah I know we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[joaniemarie]

Yeah, I believe in healing and miracles and I am definitely for them. I just do not see healing as part of the atonement. To me the atonement is spiritual not physical. If it were physical, I would expect to see everyone healed instantly upon being saved. When we are saved it is instant...once the blood of the lamb is applied to our souls God no longer looks at us as sinners but he sees us as his children. I think if healing was included in the atonement then everyone should be healed as soon as they were saved.

That's my thoughts on it anyhow...and yeah I know we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Just another thought to add on this. It takes a while to grow into who we are in Christ. We are 100% saved 100% heirs and joint heirs with Christ.... but we as new born babies have to desire the sincere milk of the Word and grow.

Just as a child is an heir., that child can't sit behind the desk and be the President and CEO and owner of His father's business yet. He has to learn how to be what he was born into. Even if a dog is faithful and good that dog can't inherit the business. Only the son or daughter can because they are blood heirs.

So it is with us. It takes us "time" to learn about who Jesus is and what He has done in and for us. It takes time to learn what He wants to do through us. It takes time and we are creatures of time. Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing... and hearing and hearing..... by the Word of God.

 

[joaniemarie]

Just another thought.... I never saw miracles in my life until I believed. So it is only logical that people are not healed from the moment they are saved. Having faith is a process. We each have enough faith to move mountains but many of us are not moving any mountains. It's not because we have not been given the faith to do so.