Health, Wealth & Prosperity
- Thread starter JohnR7
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The power of the tongue isn't to create reality.
There are Scriptures which teach that how you use your tongue can harm your relationships with others, and are an expression of your heart, etcetera. Those are all important Scriptures.
However, you cannot manifest healing by declaring it.
The false teacher Joyce Meyer, along with other false WoF teachers like Copeland, claim that they create reality with their tongues. They compare themselves to God, who created by his Word.
In fact, they call themselves little gods.
This is blasphemy and is as bad as the cultic groups which claim they are going to become God.
When examined, their claims fall apart exegetically.
Here's an example: Joyce Meyer says that humans have the ability to call things into existence..she takes this from Romans 4 which is actually talking about God and not about man.
And she is one of the teachers, not an ill-instructed WoF believer.
Here's a video clip where Hank Hanegraaff explains her false exegesis:
By the way, I'm not the biggest fan of Hank Hanegraaff since he is non-Reformed (and in fact is Eastern Orthodox), but he is correct on that point. He plays the clip by Joyce Meyer in this regard, and points out how she butchers Scripture.
And, she's not the only one. Kenneth Copeland and others do the same thing. As he mentioned, Kenneth Hagin thought he would live until age 120 but is now dead.
Notice how she declares her checkbook to be full. Hilarious. I once met a WoF who said God rained gold dust and gold nuggets in her backyard. I have to ask myself, when folks say that, do they have mental illness or a problem with chronic lying or what?
There are Scriptures which teach that how you use your tongue can harm your relationships with others, and are an expression of your heart, etcetera. Those are all important Scriptures.
However, you cannot manifest healing by declaring it.
The false teacher Joyce Meyer, along with other false WoF teachers like Copeland, claim that they create reality with their tongues. They compare themselves to God, who created by his Word.
In fact, they call themselves little gods.
This is blasphemy and is as bad as the cultic groups which claim they are going to become God.
When examined, their claims fall apart exegetically.
Here's an example: Joyce Meyer says that humans have the ability to call things into existence..she takes this from Romans 4 which is actually talking about God and not about man.
And she is one of the teachers, not an ill-instructed WoF believer.
Here's a video clip where Hank Hanegraaff explains her false exegesis:
By the way, I'm not the biggest fan of Hank Hanegraaff since he is non-Reformed (and in fact is Eastern Orthodox), but he is correct on that point. He plays the clip by Joyce Meyer in this regard, and points out how she butchers Scripture.
And, she's not the only one. Kenneth Copeland and others do the same thing. As he mentioned, Kenneth Hagin thought he would live until age 120 but is now dead.
Notice how she declares her checkbook to be full. Hilarious. I once met a WoF who said God rained gold dust and gold nuggets in her backyard. I have to ask myself, when folks say that, do they have mental illness or a problem with chronic lying or what?
Yes, it can really mess up relationships, in particular, if we use our tongue unwisely, or if we don't praise God with it as a regular sacrifice.
Words actually reflect the heart of the person, though, and wise words are a reflection of a changed heart, although no believer has perfectly mastered it, according to James.
But, we can't cause something like a material object (or healing or wealth) to come into reality with words, like God can. That is false "positive confession" teaching.
We can pray for providence regarding health or our needs, though, and God will answer if it is his sovereign will for us, assuming we are obedient.
Words actually reflect the heart of the person, though, and wise words are a reflection of a changed heart, although no believer has perfectly mastered it, according to James.
But, we can't cause something like a material object (or healing or wealth) to come into reality with words, like God can. That is false "positive confession" teaching.
We can pray for providence regarding health or our needs, though, and God will answer if it is his sovereign will for us, assuming we are obedient.
The Prosperity Gospel is very dangerous and these preachers are playing with fire.
Judas was a type. We know what happened to him. Betrayed our Lord for 30 pieces of silver and hung himself because his conscience went out of control. But God used Him to accomplish His purpose to die for all those who would believe.
The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” -Matthew 26:24
to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place. -Acts 1:25
Judas was a type. We know what happened to him. Betrayed our Lord for 30 pieces of silver and hung himself because his conscience went out of control. But God used Him to accomplish His purpose to die for all those who would believe.
The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” -Matthew 26:24
to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place. -Acts 1:25
Actually, it does effect one's salvation.
Without the spoken word of faith, no one can be saved.
If you didn't speak what you believed in your heart, WOF, concerning Jesus being your personal savior, then it NEVER HAPPENED.
Everyone who can speak, have spoken words of faith, including you.
Only, most do so unwittingly, to their own hurt and that of their loved ones.
People do need to trade their brains in for a heart of flesh, though.
One does not believe with their brain or head, but with and of the heart.
Your head is getting in your way of believing the gospel/promises of the word of God.
Something you apparently don't like to discuss.
I have written many verses backing up what I say, only for you to ignore every single one.
Paul taught everyone, Words of faith, and then told us how it works.
I don't care what others have done with it.
Good or bad, it is a scriptural truth, and if you can't believe what is written, then you need to get Jesus in your heart.
For, as the spirit of Christ is in us, so are we in this world.
Or, as the spirit is, so are we.
Either make the tree good and its fruit will be good, or else make the tree corrupt and its fruit will be corrupt/evil/bad.
You need to get the good tree in you, because I perceive you have an evil heart of unbelief.
Without the spoken word of faith, no one can be saved.
If you didn't speak what you believed in your heart, WOF, concerning Jesus being your personal savior, then it NEVER HAPPENED.
Everyone who can speak, have spoken words of faith, including you.
Only, most do so unwittingly, to their own hurt and that of their loved ones.
People do need to trade their brains in for a heart of flesh, though.
One does not believe with their brain or head, but with and of the heart.
Your head is getting in your way of believing the gospel/promises of the word of God.
Something you apparently don't like to discuss.
I have written many verses backing up what I say, only for you to ignore every single one.
Paul taught everyone, Words of faith, and then told us how it works.
I don't care what others have done with it.
Good or bad, it is a scriptural truth, and if you can't believe what is written, then you need to get Jesus in your heart.
For, as the spirit of Christ is in us, so are we in this world.
Or, as the spirit is, so are we.
Either make the tree good and its fruit will be good, or else make the tree corrupt and its fruit will be corrupt/evil/bad.
You need to get the good tree in you, because I perceive you have an evil heart of unbelief.
1. It is written, "Death and life is in the power of the tongue".
2. Why not, who says, and by what authority do you speak.
I commanded my healing to come for about an hour and one half straight, and it did just that.
So speak for yourself, using my tongue to make what I want or desire works for me.
3. Jesus Himself said, "ye are gods", quoting from the old testament.
4. Where is it written in the bible saying it's blasphemy? Such ridiculous accusations and condemnations.
No one is saying we are going to become God.
You are simply perverting what is being said out of your hate for those of faith.
5. I have yet to have one person prove me wrong, and since you don't use scripture to backup anything you say, I know you cannot prove me wrong either.
6. Jesus and Paul commended up to be FOLLOWERS of them, and they are EXAMPLES TO FOLLOW. So what God does, we are to do the same, even as Jesus did.
7. So, God's people perish for a lack of knowledge. There was obviously something he didn't know.
2. Why not, who says, and by what authority do you speak.
I commanded my healing to come for about an hour and one half straight, and it did just that.
So speak for yourself, using my tongue to make what I want or desire works for me.
3. Jesus Himself said, "ye are gods", quoting from the old testament.
4. Where is it written in the bible saying it's blasphemy? Such ridiculous accusations and condemnations.
No one is saying we are going to become God.
You are simply perverting what is being said out of your hate for those of faith.
5. I have yet to have one person prove me wrong, and since you don't use scripture to backup anything you say, I know you cannot prove me wrong either.
6. Jesus and Paul commended up to be FOLLOWERS of them, and they are EXAMPLES TO FOLLOW. So what God does, we are to do the same, even as Jesus did.
7. So, God's people perish for a lack of knowledge. There was obviously something he didn't know.
Jesus wasn’t claiming humans are gods like the WOFs claim.
The reason the OT judges could be called gods is because they were vehicles of the word of God (cf. 10:35). But granting that premise, Jesus deserves much more than they to be called God. He is the Word incarnate, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world to save the world (10:36). In light of the prologue to the Gospel of John, it seems this interpretation would have been most natural for the author. If it is permissible to call men "gods" because they were the vehicles of the word of God, how much more permissible is it to use the word "God" of him who is the Word of God?
NET Study Bible commentary
Your words:
I provided scripture where Jesus said even what u have, which is healing, will be taken away from you
Quoting
Matt 25:29 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
(ESV)
My response:
Go back to the verse you mentioned, and see if the context has ANYTHING to do with healing. You can't pluck a verse out of the Bible and claim it has something to do with healing, when it has nothing to do with healing.
It has to do with spiritual gifts that God gives, that he expects us to make use of.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 25:14-30
14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
(ESV)
I provided scripture where Jesus said even what u have, which is healing, will be taken away from you
Quoting
Matt 25:29 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
(ESV)
My response:
Go back to the verse you mentioned, and see if the context has ANYTHING to do with healing. You can't pluck a verse out of the Bible and claim it has something to do with healing, when it has nothing to do with healing.
It has to do with spiritual gifts that God gives, that he expects us to make use of.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 25:14-30
14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
(ESV)