Hebrews 12: the Fath of the Saints!

cfultz3 · May 23, 2012

Of all the things I have written so far, this is one of the most important verses there is. Please take the time to understand what it is saying. Without the Spirit leading you, you ARE NOT a child of God.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:8 But, if you* are without chastisement (disciplinary action, training), of which chastisement you* had become partakers, then you* are no doubt bastards and not (abs. neg.) sons.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]are without...then you are (Present Active Indicative) = If you are presently living without being taught from God, that is, not having the Spirit tell you God's way in a particular matter, then it is every indication that God is not your Father, seeing that the Spirit is the sealment of your sonhood. It is that Voice which tells you, "This way to the Light", and if you are not hearkening to that Voice, then how can you call yourself a child of God? God wants you to face reality here and now. Read this verse again. What does it say? If you are not being chastised (corrected and trained by His Spirit) by God, then you are a bastard, and absolutely not a son. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had become (2 peRect Active Indicative) = It is an one time event that we had become pertakers of this chastisement (correction, tutorage) and it will not occur again. What this tells us is that, at the time we were accepted as a child of God, this tutorage came along with the package of sonhood. It is only logical to conlude that if He is our Abba, then He also will rear us up His own way. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If you are not being trained in God's way by the Spirit, then do yourself a favor, go to God in repentance and seek His mercy, seeing that you do not have salvation, but ever wit, one who has neither God as a Father, nor the blood of His Son cleansing you. Do not deny this, if you are not lead (the present now and every indication of the future) in correction by the Spirit, you are none of His.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb_12:6; Psa_73:1, Psa_73:14-15; 1Pe_5:9-10[/FONT]

GreenNnice · May 23, 2012

Heb 12:7 If you* do undergo chastisement (disciplinary correction), then God is lead to deal with you* as with sons. For who is a son whom a father does not discipline (instruct, chastise)?

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not
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IF = decision, hypothesis, right, the ole 'if I put this blue litmus paper in this hydrochloric acid then it will turn a color.' 'Course,, it could just get wet, too.

Point is, their is weight put on this word, 'if.'

So..... IF ye (you) endure (present action, this bearing of chastening in the here and,now, not speaking of past nor future). Now, 'if' + 'endure' means that what comes next is good, so, it's saying IF you get past this present tough, formidable, long, corrective action of your past unglorifying (can we get away with saying that?) act you will get irreplaceable favor from Christ, who will treat you with a,familial kind of affection, which is Love from God in a great, personal way. Remember, how I speak about how it is a PERSONAL relationship with Christ for each and everyone of His children? This is it ! It does not get more personal than being not just called sons (and daughters) of God, but dealt with for our wrongdoing with Love, like for a father a son.

The last clause tells us that a loving father loves his son so that is why he chastens him. Remember, 'chasten' sounds like a big, bad overbearing way of guilt-riding His children, but, no, no, noooo, nothing could be farther from the Truth. Christ died on the cross, taking away all your past guilt, all your past shame, forgot about it, ALL, gone from His mind, 'far as the east is from the west,' 'into the bottom of the sea' are two 'infinite' far away, and, deep places that all your past living unto God's ways goes

You are innocent

And, it is not presumed innocent, it is not predicted innocent it is here and now, in the present, innocent. Perfectly so. Just remember that we still will be working on His perfection for us as we listen to The Spirit's guiding, counseling, helping, understanding, discerning, teaching, and, more (oh, such more) all the days, all the days of our life. And IF we bear corrections in life from our Loving Father, we are treated (dealt with) as kings, for we are The King's kids forevermore in Heaven

GreenNnice · May 23, 2012

Correction: . Christ died on the cross, taking away all your past guilt, all your past shame, forgot about it, ALL, gone from His mind, 'far as the east is from the west,' 'into the bottom of the sea' are two 'infinite' far away, and, deep places, respectively, that all your past living NOT unto God's ways goes

cfultz3 · May 23, 2012

Heb 12:9 Moreover, we were having those fathers of our flesh as chastiers (trainers, discipliners) and were being turned around (in (G1722) + turn (G5157) =inverted). Will we not (abs. neg.) much more be made subordinate to the Father of spirits and live?

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Verbs:
were having (Imperfect Active Indicative) = before becoming a child of God, we had fathers of the flesh who corrected us, but, now we have (Present Active Indicative) God as our Father and His Spirit as our Chastier.

were being turned around (Imperfect Passive Indicative) = The KJV has 'we gave them reverence'. But, note that it is in the passive (1P receives the action) and not the active (which would infer they did give reference instead). Whatever the case might be, what is to be learned from this is that as our physical fathers were turning us children around by being our chastiers, so, we as children of God, must also be turned around (Psalms 23:3 (He turned around my soul)) by God.

be made subordinate (2Future Passive Indicative) = If we were made subordinate to our physical fathers by birth, then would we not also be made subordinate to our spirtual Father by our spiritual birth? This is not to say that we are forced into submission, as Mal_1:6; Jam_4:7, Jam_4:10; 1Pe_5:6 tells us that submission is active on our part, but that through birth, we are made subordinate to God as we are when we are born to our physical father.

will we live (Future Active Indicative) = the purpose of God being our Teacher/Corrector is so that we may receive everlasting life. And not accepting the guidance of the Spirit is to receive everlasting death.

GreenNnice · May 24, 2012

cfultz3 said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:8 But, if you* are without chastisement (disciplinary action, training), of which chastisement you* had become partakers, then you* are no doubt bastards and not (abs. neg.) sons.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]are without...then you are (Present Active Indicative) = If you are presently living without being taught from God, that is, not having the Spirit tell you God's way in a particular matter, then it is every indication that God is not your Father, seeing that the Spirit is the sealment of your sonhood. It is that Voice which tells you, "This way to the Light", and if you are not hearkening to that Voice, then how can you call yourself a child of God? God wants you to face reality here and now. Read this verse again. What does it say? If you are not being chastised (corrected and trained by His Spirit) by God, then you are a bastard, and absolutely not a son. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had become (2 peRect Active Indicative) = It is an one time event that we had become pertakers of this chastisement (correction, tutorage) and it will not occur again. What this tells us is that, at the time we were accepted as a child of God, this tutorage came along with the package of sonhood. It is only logical to conlude that if He is our Abba, then He also will rear us up His own way. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Powerful Truth, cee: If you are not being trained in God's way by the Spirit, then do yourself a favor, go to God in repentance and seek His mercy, seeing that you do not have salvation, but ever wit, one who has neither God as a Father, nor the blood of His Son cleansing you. Do not deny this, if you are not lead (the present now and every indication of the future) in correction by the Spirit, you are none of His.[/FONT]
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I don't see where, cee, that this verse says, 'Without the Holy Spriit, someone is not a child of God.' ?

__________________
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

This verse says that you WILL be chastised all your life ('be' is a present tense verb) and it's an affirmation word, too. God clearly says that ALL are partakers of chastisement that are His sons. This verse does say IF you are enduring chastisement then you are a 'bastard,' and this word defined is what? someone who God does not like it's fair to say, so, be OPEN to God's correction, it is for OUR own good,for your OWN eternal good. YOU MUST be a son (or daughter) of God to enter the Kingdom of Heaven

[/FONT]

GreenNnice · May 24, 2012

Edit: The Holy Spirit is deathly important to salvation, we will WANT Him too once we believe on Him for our eternal life as 3:16 states, His timing, but, yes, YEARN for the Holy Spirit to be received (read acts 1 and acts 8)

Cee, I was just saying in last post that I don't see that literal translation in Hebrews 12:8 of the Holy Spirit not leading out life leading to not being His (sons and daughters of God). That is all I am saying. God bless your great study, brother

GreenNnice · May 24, 2012

Heb 12:9 Moreover, we were having those fathers of our flesh as chastiers (trainers, discipliners) and were being turned around (in (G1722) + turn (G5157) =inverted). Will we not (abs. neg.) much more be made subordinate to the Father of spirits and live?

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
________________

Listening to your dad is good, but listening to God is better.

This is continuation of God telling those that are His sons and daughters are those that WELCOME chastisement and, although the 12:8 does not say it, we should WANT it often, because otherwise PRIDE gets us

OK, sorry, I am on to 12:9 again.....

Yes, you listen to your dad who will help you in life have food, go to the zoo for your birthday, and, you listen to mom, too, of course, and, they, your earthly parents give you good things, take you nice places, and raise you up to be men and women of God. So, that is good, to have that 'material' blessing that your maternal mom and dad provide. But, and this is a big BUT, God is someone how much more so you should listen to chastisement of. Because why?

BECAUSE HE HOLDS YOUR FUTURE. He thought you into existence at your appointed time in history, blessed you with ALL you have been given by your parents. God is God. He is a little harder, perhaps , to see as a BIG influence in your life , but trust me, He is

He's, in fact, THE BIGGEST (influence). Just it TAKES faith, which is what this WHOLE chapter is about, not to mention chapter 11 and I think the whole book of Hebrews is a 'faith' theme chapter, but, yes, He is to be your Father whom you OBEY just like mom and dad, even more so. You are to HONOR your mother and father, scriptures say don't they. But, it is God who you are to follow, ultimately. Mom and dad help, but God helps biggest

In fact, He is your help, He is your history. He is your now. He is your later. He is your forever

Forever be SUBJECTED to God. 'Subjection' is a noun, be in the moment of it. Subjection is not a sometimes thing we do with God, it is an ALL THE TIME THING

May Jesus bless you for your subjection to Him

You will be thus rewarded at due appointed time, both on Earth, and, in Heaven, for your great subjection (bowing) to Him

cfultz3 · May 24, 2012

GreenNnice said:

Edit: The Holy Spirit is deathly important to salvation, we will WANT Him too once we believe on Him for our eternal life as 3:16 states, His timing, but, yes, YEARN for the Holy Spirit to be received (read acts 1 and acts 8)

Cee, I was just saying in last post that I don't see that literal translation in Hebrews 12:8 of the Holy Spirit not leading out life leading to not being His (sons and daughters of God). That is all I am saying. God bless your great study, brother

God bless you brother

Has it been made clear now?

GreenNnice · May 24, 2012

cfultz3 said:

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Absolutely clear, thanks for PM, Christ bro, cee

I will bring up 12:8 verse again quickly.

Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons

For others to understand, in Hebrews 12:8, God says that those who do not partake or , actively participate in God''s correction or chastisement , we are 'bastards.'

Not my favorite word in the world, 'bastard,' but telling us that a bastard is a 'fatherless child' and our Father is God,, who gave us of Himself via our receiving His Holy Spirit into our temple, who does The correcting. Therefore, a child of God''s will endure and welcome and partake of chastisement. Although critically important to faith, communion and its doing is excellent for affirmation of God's dying on cross for your sins, for He is The bread of life and by His blood (wine/grape juice drank in 1/2 oz. cup, by self, or,, in church. Communion kits can be bought online or in christian bookstores for those not with church family for whatever Lord-led reason) and, like asking in of Holy Spirit to your body temple, is The asking in,, drinking in,.eating in of.....

Chastisement from your Father in Heaven, who personally, Lovingly corrects, withOUT conviction that already deems us guilty. God HEAPS NOT one measurement of guilt on His children, just correction

. Only Love is God. Tough Love, green? Absolutely. Like verses already said state, a earthly father will.discipline his son or daughter quite severely sometimes, because He knows that is the kind of Love God is leading dear ole dad (think Quick Draw McGraw, for a sec, remember 'dear ole dad,'

) to administer you. God disciplines His own the same 'tough' way, eve, yeah, sometimes He can be that tough on your dear ole dad.

cfultz3 · May 24, 2012

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:10 Seeing that they indeed were chastising (disciplining, training) for a few days after the thing seeming good to them, but He chastises towards the thing profiting (helping, being better, bringing together) with this intent: for us to have become co-sharers (from G3326 "with" + G2983 "receive") of His holiness.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seeming good to them....the thing profiting (Present Active Participle) = our parents rear us up according to what they thing is best for us in succeeding in this temporary world. On the other hand, God rears us up to our everlasting profit. Our parents intent is of this world, but His intent is so that we do share in His holiness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]have become co-sharers (2AAN) = If we are His children, then we have also become co-sharers of His holiness, and thus, we are not sinners, but in every manner, holy as He is holy. That is why Scripture says that we cannot sin. We cannot sin inasmuch as His seed (the same seed of holiness which produced the man Jesus) is within us, and by which seed, we are born from God. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If we are holy, but yet sinners, then deductive reasoning demands that God is also a sinner (speaking as a man). Do you not see the fault of such reasoning in saying that we are capable of being sinners, but yet, partakers of His holiness? We are either sinners or holy, we cannot be of both, as they are of two different seeds. The consequence of the second aorist is that having become partakers of holiness, we are no longer sinners but saints (holy ones). And as holy ones, God chastises us as His children out of love, not out of wrath (condemnation) which is preserved for sinners. From this day forth, let all the children of God know they are holy as He is holy and that which is holy cannot sin, seeing that the aorist tells us that this is an one time infinitive deal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]after their own pleasure: or, as seemed good, or meet, to them[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]but He: Heb_12:5-6[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]co-sharers: Lev_11:44-45, Lev_19:2; Psa_17:15; Eze_36:25-27; Eph_4:24, Eph_5:26-27; Col_1:22; Tit_2:14; 1Pe_1:15-16, 1Pe_2:5, 1Pe_2:9; 2Pe_1:4[/FONT]

GreenNnice · May 24, 2012

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]KJV Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seeming good to them....the thing profiting (Present Active Participle) = our parents rear us up according to what they thing is best for us in succeeding in this temporary world. On the other hand, God rears us up to our everlasting profit. Our parents intent is of this world, but His intent is so that we do share in His holiness. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]have become co-sharers (2AAN) = If we are His children, then we have also become co-sharers of His holiness, and thus, we are not sinners, but in every manner, holy as He is holy. That is why Scripture says that we cannot sin. We cannot sin inasmuch as His seed (the same seed of holiness which produced the man Jesus) is within us, and by which seed, we are born from God. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If we are holy, but yet sinners, then deductive reasoning demands that God is also a sinner (speaking as a man). Do you not see the fault of such reasoning in saying that we are capable of being sinners, but yet, partakers of His holiness? We are either sinners or holy, we cannot be of both, as they are of two different seeds. The consequence of the second aorist is that having become partakers of holiness, we are no longer sinners but saints (holy ones). And as holy ones, God chastises us as His children out of love, not out of wrath (condemnation) which is preserved for sinners. From this day forth, let all the children of God know they are holy as He is holy and that which is holy cannot sin, seeing that the aorist tells us that this is an one time infinitive deal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]after their own pleasure: or, as seemed good, or meet, to them[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]but He: Heb_12:5-6[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]co-sharers: Lev_11:44-45, Lev_19:2; Psa_17:15; Eze_36:25-27; Eph_4:24, Eph_5:26-27; Col_1:22; Tit_2:14; 1Pe_1:15-16, 1Pe_2:5, 1Pe_2:9; 2Pe_1:4[/FONT]
___________________________

God is clear, and, it's no secret, God chastises with pure good of heart, for doing so we may attain unto His Holiness. 'Be holy as I am holy.' Remember that scripture ?

We can only be holy IF we bear the chastisement He administers, this grows us up in Him, makes us able to do more things on Earth, get more blessed in how we use our gifts He's endowed us with. EVERYONE has gifts IF they have the Holy Spirit in them, and, IF they are of Him then the Holy Spirit is to, simply, per scriptures in Acts, be received. His timing, might not be right after one becomes born again but it is to happen, as a wind, for some, as C.S. Lewis said that he was driving in his car to somewhere, like a funeral, and, a mighty wind of something came upon him and he knew he had felt 'it' and received Him (Holy Spirit) unto Lewis' self-being (temple)

Why the Spirit, green?

Because the Spirit is integral to our discipline and understanding and mission that God has for our lives, He prompts us. He leads us. Scripture tells us, in our darkest moments, when we know not what to pray for, the Spirit will help us through groanings in us for the right words. It sounds supernatural, green. It is, well kind of. It is super power, way better than any avengers dudes and it is natural power that flows through you from Him, empowered to do in His good time what He well pleases with you for your benefit and ALWAYS for His glory

_)))))))))))(_

On a grammar note, the 'for' parallelism is telling...

For, as I stated before is a word of emphasis, and, one emphasis is on man's discipline being done as a human, which is for own earthly pleasure. This can go on a long time in the here and now as 'for a few days' states in Heb. 12:9. God's chastening is timely and 'might be(partakers)' are future action words saying the chastisement may or may not give us holiness, THAT is our choice to be hoy as He is holy. And, the chastisement is not for any length of time mentioned but it's for our own good from God, really, really for our own good, it that we MIGHT BE partakers (active participants) of His Holiness way of living that strengthens our walk with Him and becomes us more good things (rewards in life). His Holiness, chastisement BRINGS IT ( holy as He is holy)

cfultz3 · May 24, 2012

Heb 12:11 Now, any chastisement (disciplinary correction, training) indeed does not seem at the time being to be joyous, but rather, grievous, but eventually, for those having had been trainedthrough (channel of an act) it, it does yield righteousness's fruit (result) of peace (Isa 32:17).

KJV Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Verbs:

having had been trained (peRfect Passive Participle) = we, having had been trained by the Spirit, the chastisement we went through yields the result of righteousness, and that is peace (Isa 32:17). Take note of the verb 'trained'. It pertains to the training an athlete vigorously puts himself through. In our case, being in the passive, it is the training the Holy Spirit puts us through so that we, having been well trained through chastisement, can run that race with Jesus as our Forerunner, avoiding any speedbumps. The Holy Spirit is our Trainer, Jesus is our Forerunner.

Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:

any chastisement:Psa_89:32, Psa_118:18; Pro_15:10, Pro_19:18
eventually:Heb_12:5-6, Heb_12:10
fruit of peace:Psa_119:165; Isa_32:17; Rom_5:3-5, Rom_14:17; 2Co_4:17; Gal_5:22-23; Jam_3:17-18
trained:Heb_5:14; 1Ti_4:7-8; 2Pe_2:14 *Gr.

GreenNnice · May 24, 2012

Quote:
Heb 12:11πασαG3956 A-NSF - (any) δεG1161 CONJ - (moreover) παιδειαG3809 N-NSF - (chastisement (disciplinary correction, training)) προςG4314 PREP - (at) μενG3303 PRT - (indeed) τοπαρονG3918 V-PAP-ASN - (the time being) ουG3756 PRT-N - (not (abs. neg.)) δοκειG1380 V-PAI-3S - (chastisement does seem) χαραςG5479 N-GSF - (of joy = joyous) ειναιG1510 V-PAN - (to be) αλλαG235 CONJ - (but rather) λυπηςG3077 N-GSF - (of grief = grievous) υστερονG5305 ADV - (eventually) δεG1161 CONJ - (but) καρπονG2590 N-ASM - (fruit (result)) ειρηνικονG1516 A-ASM - (peaceful = of peace) τοιςG3588 T-DPM - (for those) διG1223 PREP - (through (channel of an act)) αυτηςG846 P-GSF - (it (chastisement)) γεγυμνασμενοιςG1128 V-RPP-DPM - (having had been trained) αποδιδωσινG591 V-PAI-3S - (it does yield) δικαιοσυνηςG1343 N-GSF - (righteousness's)

Heb 12:11 Now, any chastisement (disciplinary correction, training) indeed does not seem at the time being to be joyous, but rather, grievous, but eventually, for those having had been trainedthrough (channel of an act) it, it does yield righteousness's fruit (result) of peace (Isa 32:17).

KJV Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
_______________________________

Punishment is not fun. The word 'now' is a surprise word, it jolts you, like someone who is talking to you and says: The wrongdoing we do is going to really get us in trouble as Satan can and will attack, NOW, that is bad, can be very bad, but God, yes, God is very good and He can help you take any trouble that Satan dishes out.
Punishment, God says, however, only SEEMS to be of no good (although the reality of the hurt real in the present is real) as it produces fruit, and, not just any fruit but the fruit of peace and the blessed awesomeness of becoming more like God, who is RIGHTEOSNESS personified. Righteous means doing right things and not wrong things of sin, right

So, by being chastened we get the fruit of being right like God. That's a pretty good 'right,' isn;t it

And, the 'no' word simply says what it says, there is absolutely, positively NO punishment that feels good at the time, it hurts to be scolded, it hurts to be hit with the spanking stick, it hurts to know we hurt someone else, especially when the repercussions consequence us, sometimes greatly consequence

.

Then, lastly, the part about chastisement being able to 'excercise' bad from us is good to know

cfultz3 · May 25, 2012

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For which cause, you* are to have straightened up those hung hands and those feebled knees.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]hung hands...feebled knees (peRect Passive Participle) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] having reached the point of being totally trained by the Spirit to the point of near exhaustion, we have come to the decisive point where we take that training afforded through the example of our Forerunner and put it in action against that beseeching sin. We have been trained by the Spirit in how to fixationaly look at our faith's Forerunner, how He forsook joy so that He could have run the same race which is set before us, how He endured enticement from sinners, how He resisted enticement even to the point of crying tears of blood, how He endured the chastisement of the cross for sins not of His own, all in the name of showing His brothers and sisters the Way. So stand straight and proud, knowing that all the training is for you to be an overcomer, whose prize is the peace of righteousness. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]As with any athlete, training is for winning the prize awaiting the victor. Every race ran, all the endless preparation, all the training, all the waking moments of pondering upon how to obtain that victorious wreath of a champion, is all done to reach that finish line. With the best Trainer edging him on with hope found in the ultimate Winner, He encourages. Having ran the path Himself and knowing the pitfalls, He warns. Having been one of us and knowing our infirmities, He lifts us up. There, we have reached the finish line. There, we set at the right hand of our Lord, resting forevermore in His Sabbath. But, the way to get there is to never give up the race.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb_12:3[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb_12:5[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Job_4:3-4[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Isa_35:3[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Eze_7:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Eze_21:7[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Dan_5:6[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Nah_2:10[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]1Th_5:14[/FONT][/FONT]

iamsoandso · May 25, 2012

yes i like this in that you all seem to understand to see "past-tense","present-tense","future-tense" launguage as it was used in the bible,,,,,,many times i've listened to or pertisapated in semanars regarding "revalations",,,,,,,,,,now i noticed years ago "most" tend to enlighten us on "when it's going to happen",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i always point back to the beggining,,"rev.1;19",,,,,,,,thou hast seen,,which are,,,,,,,,,and shall be hereafter,,,,,,,,,,three different tense's,,,,,,,,past present and future,,now without recerching each word as you are doing here most will not see that christ himself tells john things you have seen,,(past),,,,,,,,which are(present),,shall be hereafter(future),,so the revalation of christ begin's at creation,,,then the preasent day church when john was alive,,,,,,,,,,,then from john till the ????????now the three mixed together are babylon/confusion,,,,,,,but these three tenses seperate,,,,,set where they ought be,,,is the spirit of proficy,,,and the wisdom of christ is the spirit of proficy,,and the revalations of christ is the revalations of the wisdom of proficy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the tenses,,,,,,,,some can decern the wether,,but cannot decern the ,,,"times/tenses,,,,,,the proficies",,,when they were to happen or if they had been fulfilled,,,,if they could have decerned the times/proficies/tenses,,,,,,,,,,they would have realized that he was the mesiah standing in front of them fulfilling these proficies,,,,,i should not be speking of rev. 1;19,,,,,,,,its for another post,,,,,now as for "the text we recieved/textus receptus" wich is the translation of the latin,,"textus receptus",,,,,,,and so of what launguage was the original letter to the hebrews written????,,,now the "text we recieved" was from the koine greek,,,,,,,,,and then to several launguages and then to english,,,,,,hebrew is a very "poetical launguage",,and koine greek is not and if you notice the launguage of "hebrew's" where you are studding is "very poetical",,,,,,,,,paul is believed to have written this book,,but he states at times he was appointed "the apostle to the gentile" and that the twelve were appointed apostles to the jew,,,,,,,,now look back at rev. 1;19,,,,,,,,,,i jumped subject(you see i jumped subject),,,,,,,,,,,if paul was the apostle to the gentile,,and he then did not trust in the apostles the holy spirit sent to the hebrew,,,,,,,,,,,"he jumped subject",,he is preaching the gosphel to the ones that he knows the holy spirit sent peter,luke,matthew,ect. to preach to,,,,,,,,,seems like madness so far "but suffer me",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,there is no mention of the destruction of jerusalem/a.d.70,in the book of hebrews,,,,,,,so it was written after the crucafiction of christ a.d32-34(spoken of in the text of hebrews)and before the destruction of jerusalem/a.d.70,,,,,,,,theres the math problem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thirteen apostles,,,,,,,,,,,,where were they between 34 a.d.,,,and 70 a.d.????????? paul was beheaded in rome,,,peter was crucified upside-down,,,,john was alive in a.d.96,,,,,,,,,,,,,,steven was stoned to death at the beggining,thats four of the thirteen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when did the other,,,,,,,,,,, "9",,die and where were they??????????but peter,paul and john still could have written this book,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"look at the tense of the words",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is the "text we recieved/textus receptus",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

iamsoandso · May 25, 2012

think what i said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,," the gosphul to the chineese,,,translated from spanish",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

iamsoandso · May 25, 2012

here is another point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyone ever notice that in the book of "second samuel",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"samuel is already dead"???

iamsoandso · May 25, 2012

or in the book of job,,, he does not mention the law of moses????,,,,,,,,,,,,,becouse it was not yet given????????

cfultz3 · May 25, 2012

Heb 12:13 And you are to have made straight (leveled) tracks (course of conduct) for your* feet so that that which is limping would not have been twisted (or dislocated), but rather, would have been healed.

Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Verbs:

have made (AAM) = the writter here uses medical advice to hit home a spiritual truth. Just as an athlete who insist in staying in the competition knows, you are to keep hurt joints straight as possible to prevent further damage of being twisted or dislocated. So too, in your spiritual race, having been chastised (discipline, trained) by the Spirit, you are to keep your body parts upon that straight and narrow path which has been set out for you. It is when an athlete starts to angle his hurt joint, that he begins to feel the hurt associated with disobeying this rule, and if he continues upon that path, he might twist or dislocated a joint. Again, so too with the Christian. If a Christian continues to angle his joints against the faith's trace, he too will start feeling the hurt associated with not keeping himself straight as possible. But, if he continues to run straight, all the better for him, and healing is more amped to have occured.

cfultz3 · May 25, 2012

I am so and so,

Thank you for your post. I have read your post and from what I can gather, are you saying that the Textus Receptus is a translation of a trainslation, etc...? I am not sure as to what your point is, will you explain?

Hebrews 12: the Fath of the Saints!

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