Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[reneweddaybyday]

Let's let the bible interpret this:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Someone who practices lawlessness (sin) is not a doer of the word.

Sanctification (Holiness) is a result of living in obedience to the Word of God.

Actually, He is warning the people about false prophets who come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves (Matt 7:15).

It is the false prophets who set themselves up as ones who call upon the Lord but are really there to deceive.

The false prophets are the ones who will say to Him at that day have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (Matt 7:22).

And Jesus will tell them I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matt 7:23).

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 12:14New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions.

But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursuepeace with all men, and thesanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble. Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it. Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.


Hebrews 12:15 - Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Unfortunately works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.

This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born " and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You are missing the point of the thread to this point. We are talking about Believers who have fallen away. Hebrews 6v4-6 remember. So my question is an OSAS one. The question was directed to DCONT. Read the thread buildup. Then comment.

Dude, I was part of this thread last year, before someone recently resurrected it. I know exactly what it's about. It's you who should read through it and learn. You have nothing new to offer, it's all already been addressed and corrected long ago.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What do you mean it is all law? It is established that I BELIEVE in Messiah Yeshua and because you say I don't because of your in belief you condemn me! ROM 8 there is therefore now on condemnation to those who are in Messiah, Yeshua,
And vs. 6 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Don't be fooled there is one law and two ways to keep it and we are called by the spirit to keep it. It becomes no longer law with condemnation it has been filled with life giving spirit to those who walk in the way and is loving instruction. So yes there is no condemnation in Messiah, you however once come to the knowledge of Messiah have not loved him because you don't do as Messiah does for example. Sanctification comes through obedience. To what you say because you are already condemned and having no peace you attack attempting to move the unmovable faith of Elohim and Messiah. You having not tasted the Instruction of Elohim Messiah think you understand? No it is not Only law I preach it is the cross and resurrection of Messiah as well as all He teaches us in His Instruction for our benefit.

I highlighted the portions. If you have any questions.

Can you speak in english please??

 

[JohnTalmid]

Yup... Lol

 

[JohnTalmid]

I highlighted the portions. If you have any questions.

Can you speak in english please??

What is your reasonable sacrifice? And what's highlighted friend

 

[JohnTalmid]

We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions.

But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursuepeace with all men, and thesanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble. Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it. Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.


Hebrews 12:15 - Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Unfortunately works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.

This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born " and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.

Unless your rightousness exceed that of Pher you will not see the Kingdom of Elohim

 

[Chris1975]

You're all over the map. Being a doer of the Word is not usurping Him by taking His place and trying to do for yourself what only He can do in you and through you.

Read the scriptures as they are plainly stated. The scripture "Be not a hearer, but a doer of the word" - do you think GOD is instructing Himself? Lol.

 

[Chris1975]

There is a logical leap of meaning here.
If someone asks you to lay the table for food, you are not usurping the asker by doing
what they have requested, you are submitting to their instruction.

The boundary between justification and obedience has been blurred in these peoples minds.
If Christ commands us to do something, we do it because we love Him. By walking in
disobedience is sin, but obedience is somehow earning ones salvation, rather than just
following and walking in the relationship. There is a fascination about sub dividing
everything, and every action must be done for the right reasons and motives or it is sinful.

It invents a whole form of legalism and morality that was never there before and the Lord
never instituted, but get this wrong and you are doing evil. But not evil to send you to hell
but evil that will be burnt up at judgement. This is where they spend their energy, learning
the right rules for everything, except it is extra biblical, but definately not self justification, lol.

You are right ^^. Like modern day Pharisees.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Read the scriptures as they are plainly stated. The scripture "Be not a hearer, but a doer of the word" - do you think GOD is instructing Himself? Lol.

Already covered.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Ahhhh, the legalists are circling the wagons..........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have this correct! They cannot see it. Because its not opened to them that they may see it. It's a work of Grace that you understand it.

Understand what? That he acts lie a judiazer. Talks like a judiazer. and walks like a judiazer?

He made a whole post talking about how we should follow the law. Then when I brought it up. He denied it.

You two brothers?

 

[Chris1975]

Actually, He is warning the people about false prophets who come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves (Matt 7:15).

It is the false prophets who set themselves up as ones who call upon the Lord but are really there to deceive.

The false prophets are the ones who will say to Him at that day have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (Matt 7:22).

And Jesus will tell them I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matt 7:23).

He moved on to a new topic. The sermon on the mount covers multiple area in the believers life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Believers, by definition, believe. Unbelievers are separated from God, not believers.

Except I would add, FAITH is what matters,, Many people believe yet do not have faith, So for them, it is easy to see why they would fall into unbelief, The root of their faith was not christ, it was dead.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are wrong. Obedience is a choice. If you love me you will obey me, says the Lord. He doesn't obey FOR US. By His blood we are now FREE TO OBEY HIM BY THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT. Our cooperation is needed. He provides the power. We co-operate by our free will choice. If YOU by the SPIRIT put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live.

Look it up...

Are you perfect?

If not, You missed and fell below the glory of God. And you are condemned.

Was it not you that just a few posts ago claimed you did not focus on sin, Yet here you are again..

Wow.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; [SUP]24 [/SUP]for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Amen, and I agree.

Yet non of this will save you, Make you saved, or allow you to keep your salvation.

which I believe is the context of our discussion. Not sanctification.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The true “doers” are easily evident because they are the ones who are always pointing others to Jesus. He is what they speak about. He is where their emphasis is. He is their focus. They are the ones who are working the works of Christ. They are the obedient ones. They are the righteous ones. They are the doers of The Word.

Amen the true doers focus on God and his great works, not their own. They let their fruit speak for itself.

Sadly, the fruit inspectors probably can not even see their fruit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are missing the point of the thread to this point. We are talking about Believers who have fallen away. Hebrews 6v4-6 remember. So my question is an OSAS one. The question was directed to DCONT. Read the thread buildup. Then comment.

Thank you, you just proved my point, the context is salvation. Not sanctification.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's let the bible interpret this:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Someone who practices lawlessness (sin) is not a doer of the word.

Sanctification (Holiness) is a result of living in obedience to the Word of God.

2 things you miss

1. Those who have faith and are saved DO THE WILL OF GOD.. it is a byproduct of their salvation
2. This passage speaks of religion, and people who think they are saved by their deeds. They have nothing, so they go to Jesus and praise all their deeds. And he says depart.. for he never knew them.

No loss of salvation here, Just people who THOUGHT THEY WERE saved, who never knew God. Even though they THOUGHT they were doing all these works in Jesus name.

 

[Chris1975]

We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions.

But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursuepeace with all men, and thesanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble. Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it. Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.


Hebrews 12:15 - Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Unfortunately works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.

This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born " and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.

I particularly like the very next sentence to expound on this topic:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: [SUP]15 [/SUP]looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God;

A believer can fall short of the Grace of God.
Why?
Because they never fully walked in it.

Definition of the Grace of God:

Titus 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Those who don't accept the path of sanctification as something the believer co-operates with, CAN FALL SHORT OF THE GRACE OF GOD.