Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[Chris1975]

How do you co-operate with the Lord?

[h=1]Romans 12New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Living Sacrifices to God[/h]12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Romans 12New King James Version (NKJV)

Living Sacrifices to God

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

None of which makes us holy.

 

[Chris1975]

None of which makes us holy.

Look a little closer. Read properly.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Look a little closer. Read properly.

Oh, okay.......

 

[JohnTalmid]

None of which makes us holy.

This is truth. However we so often are misled to believe not even consider the law of grace through.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Continue reading for full context …

Titus 2:

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


It is our Lord Jesus Christ Who redeems us from all inquity and purifies us.

Leave Him out of the equation and our zealous good works are not sufficient.

We never excluded Him from the equation. On the contrary, you simply do not read what we say. The above passage - if I wrote about being zealous for good works - I would be called a LEGALIST. And UNDER THE LAW by you bunch.

Here is what you (singular) posted, Chris, concerning the "Definition of the Grace of God":

Definition of the Grace of God:

Titus 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Those who don't accept the path of sanctification as something the believer co-operates with, CAN FALL SHORT OF THE GRACE OF GOD.

Where are vss 13-14?

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the very definition of the Grace of God!!!

And where have I ever called anyone a LEGALIST and UNDER THE LAW?

fyi … I do not engage in derogatory name-calling as it does not add to the discussion (other than to inflame others). imho, believers who stoop to this behavior are walking according to the flesh.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is truth. However we so often are misled to believe not even consider the law of grace through.

Define this "law of grace".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You talk about the law like its a scourge?

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then nullify the Law by this faith [making the Law of no effect, overthrowing it]? Certainly not! On the contrary, we confirm and establish and uphold the Law [since it convicts us all of sin, pointing to the need for salvation].

It is a scourge, When people take it out of context.

You uphold the law by having faith in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

? Please post what you think I posted.

<Agreed. Don't know why you think I disagree with this. A believer cannot continue in sin. He by the Spirit puts to death the misdeeds of the body. If he slips, he is quick to confess and repent. Therein lies the problem for my detractors. For if someone says they believe yet is in rebellion towards God by continuing in sin, then I am accused of being too "sin" focused. I'm told that it was all done at the cross, once for all. Anything more is works. Get the picture?
..

next.. You deny'd it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word instruction would be the most accurate translation and because we are taught to walk according to the spirit as well. And I do know what a Pharisee is and the different schools of thought. We would call them denominations today...

Instruction works.. But take it in context. Oaul tells us what the "instruction was given for.

A Pharisee is a religious person who thinks he is ok with God because of his moral obedience.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As for my earlier comments about Torah and the law it was in part to help see the law in light of the spirit of grace through sanctification. We can not inherit what Elohim requires which is our reasonable sacrifice by the way. When are you going to bare your cross. The flesh's ability to continue to deceive you to think you are redeemed when you ask Yeshua to forgive you again? You think I believe I have no sin. I often find another sin I wasn't even aware of let alone those I do know of. They however are in remission thank you for being concerned. I would deal better if you where actually concerned for me than concerned about me. If you loved me still and sought scripture with me I would have more to go on. The scripture that is brought up is what your religion leads you too. This is your standard not the "law" of Elohim and His Messiah Yeshua. If you have one and not the other you have neither

Again, Can you speak English?

The law does not tell us how to be good. It condemns us. that is the purpose the law was given, it is the purpose, to lead us to Christ.

It can NOT show you how to be sanctified. You can try to become sanctified by it, But just like the phariee, it will just give you a false hope.

I told you how to be sanctified, As did Jesus, Love. For love fulfills all the law and prophets.

My standard is Gods standard. God did not give me the law to show me HOW to be good. He gave it to me to show me HOW MUCH of a SINNER I am and my NEED for Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is truth. However we so often are misled to believe not even consider the law of grace through.

The law of grace is also called the law of love..

We love because God first loved us

 

[Chris1975]

? Please post what you think I posted.

next.. You deny'd it..

I still don't know what point you are trying to make. Rephrase what you are trying to ask.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yall ask is God a lier. Why does Jesus's say remain in him if we had not the choice? Now it would be yall making him a lier.

Or would yall believe God to be unwise for warning believers of something that yall say God doesn't allow. That would be calling God illogical which God does not do anything in less its logical.

In my thread study on apostasy i have brought many biblical scripture speaking to believers about apostasy or warnings that could end up in apostasy. And proven thats what they speak on to believers.

So it just comes to a point when you see both scripture then we must see how they work together as one. Not make one work with the other, but both work in unity.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Actually, He is warning the people about false prophets who come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves (Matt 7:15).

It is the false prophets who set themselves up as ones who call upon the Lord but are really there to deceive.

The false prophets are the ones who will say to Him at that day have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (Matt 7:22).

And Jesus will tell them I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matt 7:23).

He moved on to a new topic. The sermon on the mount covers multiple area in the believers life.

Matt 7:23 is not speaking of those who were believers who "fall away" (as you claim/suggest).

Jesus did not indicate He once knew them but they had "fallen away".

In vs 23, He says I never knew you.

Never = Greek oudepote (from oude and pote) and means never at all.

So those to whom He will say "I never knew you" are not those you suggest.

 

[fredoheaven]

Matt 7:23 is not speaking of those who were believers who "fall away" (as you claim/suggest).

Jesus did not indicate He once knew them but they had "fallen away".

In vs 23, He says I never knew you.

Never = Greek oudepote (from oude and pote) and means never at all.

So those to whom He will say "I never knew you" are not those you suggest.

Amen! Christ never knew them to begin with. So, this is not proof text for a real saved believing ones to fall away.

God bless

 

[Chris1975]

Matt 7:23 is not speaking of those who were believers who "fall away" (as you claim/suggest).

Jesus did not indicate He once knew them but they had "fallen away".

In vs 23, He says I never knew you.

Never = Greek oudepote (from oude and pote) and means never at all.

So those to whom He will say "I never knew you" are not those you suggest.

1 Corinthians 8v3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.

John14v15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][d][/SUP] My commandments.

Matthew 7
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Having some fun with colours. See if you can figure it out

 

[JohnTalmid]

Again, Can you speak English?

The law does not tell us how to be good. It condemns us. that is the purpose the law was given, it is the purpose, to lead us to Christ.

It can NOT show you how to be sanctified. You can try to become sanctified by it, But just like the phariee, it will just give you a false hope.

I told you how to be sanctified, As did Jesus, Love. For love fulfills all the law and prophets.

My standard is Gods standard. God did not give me the law to show me HOW to be good. He gave it to me to show me HOW MUCH of a SINNER I am and my NEED for Christ.

One must wonder how shaul would respond to your lack of ability to understand. Don't fool yourself with saying good things you want to be. Be what you want I'm not gonna judge you. In fact I don't want to. By the way it's the only way to know how to be sanctified. If it wasn't for the law we would not know of sin and on that subject we wouldn't know rightousness either because it also revealed this. Unless you have had the great pleasure to walk with Messiah and learn directly from him I would say the law is also meant for sinner's like us to know how to better serve in Elohims Kingdom.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Having some fun with colours. See if you can figure it out

God knows those who love Him.


Jesus never knew those who do not love Him.



1 John 5:

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


If we find that His commandments are grievous, we need to do a check up from the neck up to see if we have slipped back to old habits of walking in the flesh.


Now what commandment is referred to in 1 John 5:2-3? check out 1 John 4:21 ...

 

[Roughsoul1991]

For Jesus to say I never knew you could of very well been Jesus saying what he will tell all people who claim to know Jesus. Even the ones who apostatized being faced with the God they had once doubted and walked away from. Jesus will probably say the same thing. It was as if Jesus never knew them.

We either follow God or dont. Jesus either knows you or dont. No lukewarm with God. So even the ones who apostasy will be as if God never knew them.

I doubt God will say well i knew you in your 20s but then in your 30s on Saturday may 6th 2015 you walked away from me forever. So i knew you then but now i dont know you.

He will probably be very direct and say i never knew you be gone.