Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

[oyster67]

Soooooo? ........... the lake of fire. they wail because they are going to be cast in.

To me, it just looks like this is grasping at straws.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Jesus died at three o'clock that day. Evening in spring is at what time? That would have been the start of the Sabbath. So at least three hours on a cross with broken legs, no way they would have lived past the start of the Sabbath.

Umm, Magenta they did not break His legs, seeing that he was already dead.

Psalms 34
20 He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken

Psalms 22
13 They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.

16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced[a] My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.

 

[oyster67]

For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Clearly those not covered by the righteous blood of Christ are
mortal and perishable. Their existence comes to an end.

I believe that 'must' indicates that even the damned soul must be clothed in something. Legion went into a bunch of pigs, for example. Most of the Christians that I have grown up with never talked much about this stuff because we just assumed that the persistence of a man's soul was a cut-and-dried issue.

I can at least now see how you rationalize your beliefs with Greek word studies. I would say that that the eternal damned will have some sort of material component.

 

[oyster67]

eternal death is an eternal punishment. They miss out on future life.

I buy that. The term 'life everlasting' always refers to heavenly existence. The term 'eternal punishment' always refers to the other destination.

 

[Sirk]

When God told Adam that in the day he eats of tree he will surely die Im pretty sure He added that he will be burned in hell fire for all eternity. .

 

[Gr8grace]

I believe that 'must' indicates that even the damned soul must be clothed in something. Legion went into a bunch of pigs, for example. Most of the Christians that I have grown up with never talked much about this stuff because we just assumed that the persistence of a man's soul was a cut-and-dried issue.

I can at least now see how you rationalize your beliefs with Greek word studies. I would say that that the eternal damned will have some sort of material component.

If the Greek word "lou" was used, I would say annihilation or ceasing to exist has a solid foundation.

We have a very hard time using "apollumi" as ceasing to exist or being annihilated.

We do have an example of something that does cease to exist. And both "apollumi" and "lou" are used in the passage. And "luw" is definitely used for something that will no longer exist.

2 Peter 3:6~~9-12~~ "the world at that time was destroyed (apollumi/but still exists), being flooded with water. ... The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (apollumi)but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed (LOU/luw/annihilated/dissolved/loose)with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed (LOU/annihilated/dissolved)in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed (LOU/Annihilated/dissolved)by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"

The righteous and the wicked will be resurrected........in immortal clothes. One to eternal life and one to eternal death.

 

[Magenta]

Umm, Magenta they did not break His legs, seeing that he was already dead.

It is the thieves that were being discussed regarding broken legs.

 

[Ariel82]

Before I was saved, people who preached hellfire at me, just made me either angry and defiant...all my friends and family weren't Christian,so Why,would I want to go to,a Heaven where they werent?


After,i accepted Jesus,it just made me sad because it caused folks to play pretend and be hyprocrites so God wouldn't punish them and let them in His big mansion...


I think it takes more than hellfire preaching to bring folks to God....His holy spirit has to convict them and show them why they need a savior.

 

[Ariel82]

When God told Adam that in the day he eats of tree he will surely die Im pretty sure He added that he will be burned in hell fire for all eternity. .

No God didn't. He preached the Gospel and gave the first prophesy of the Messiah, the promised Seed

 

[Magenta]

No God didn't. He preached the Gospel and gave the first prophesy of the Messiah, the promised Seed

That is correct The point being made, tongue in cheek style, was that God did not promise eternal torment and torture to Adam for disobeying Him. What has been stated repeatedly throughout Scripture in a multitude of ways is that the wages of sin is death. Belief on the Lord Jesus is enough for one to pass from death into life. John 5:24

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him Who sent me
has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

 

[Gr8grace]

That is correct The point being made, tongue in cheek style, was that God did not promise eternal torment and torture to Adam for disobeying Him. What has been stated repeatedly throughout Scripture in a multitude of ways is that the wages of sin is death. Belief on the Lord Jesus is enough for one to pass from death into life. John 5:24

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him Who sent me
has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

And death Is never described as ceasing to exist. We were all DEAD before we are saved, But we existed and we were conscious.

You are aware that there were 2 deaths described to Adam in Gods command not to eat of the fruit?........"dying, you shall surely die..."

Immediate spiritual death and 900 years later physical death.

 

[fredoheaven]

I have not seen anyone here attempt to counter any of the many Scriptures
I gave that plainly state my position. Do these mess up your position?

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.

John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Destroy, not torture or torment alive forever.

Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;

2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!

Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death, being rewarded with life. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their final and utter destruction.

Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.

Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.

After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are resurrected.

Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.

Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.

Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:

Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing

Why do people not believe what is plainly written in Scripture?
Instead they make up doctrines of demons based on things never stated.

Why? and why not? Is there not a cause?

1 Samuael 17:29 And David said, What have I now done? Is there not a cause?

I think have already pointed this out on the other thread. Let me figure some given verses here.

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

This “destruction” is Eternal death which is the separation or alienation of the soul from God. It does not refer to cessation of respiration causing to the decomposition of the body (flesh) for no one is destroyed and at the same time enters in the gate.

Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

======================================================================================

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

To destroy means to kill i.e. putting an end to its vital function. Thus we don’t fear those who can put an end to the flesh-”body” but unable to put an end to the soul. Only fear God who is able to put an end to both the soul and body in hell. I thought sometime that only the lost soul will go to hell and leave the body (flesh) in the graveyard, yet in here is also the body. So what’s the body is talking all about? Yes it is not the natural body but the spiritual body. This body of the lost does refer to the resurrected body with it soul. Yes, he can put both the body and soul in hell. Of course, this refers to the resurrection of the wicked dead to the Great White Throne Judgment.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
=======================================================================================

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.


Here is another look for the word “perish” as used in the bible. Scripture defines itself. Of course, I put scriptures above opinions. This put the word “perish” to mean to wound ones conscience, to offend resorting to the torment of the mind. Thus torment more than kill or destroy body and cease to breath.

1 Corinthians 8: 11-13 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).

Whenever I think of Noah, it’s about water and whenever I think of the Sodom, it’s about fire, so that we have the Lake of Fire. The word “destroy” carries “end”. Thus, the end of the wicked or unrighteous will be in the Lake of Fire.
======================================================================================

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.

John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In a basketball world, the ball must be thrown to other players. Such common technique is used for a successful scoring move. Likewise, death passed to all men. It does not crossover. Here, is interesting about crossover dribble by Wiki.

A crossover dribble is a basketball maneuver in which a player dribbling the ball switches the ball rapidly from one hand to the other, to make a change in direction.[SUP][1][/SUP] In a typical example the player heads upcourt, dribbling the ball in (say) the left hand, then makes a wide step left with a good head fake. If the defender is deceived, the player can then switch to dribbling with the right hand and surpass the defender. The crossover can allow the player an open short jumper or a clear path to the basket.

Source: Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_dribble

=======================================================================================

 

[VCO]

everyone agrees they will go into eternal punishment. but how do you interpret this? that's the question,

Eternal death?

Literally eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire, with the greatest part of the punishment, being eternal separation from God.

Just so you know, not everyone agrees. I have ran into LOTS of people who think a loving GOD will forgive and accept everyone into heaven, and some who think the punishment will be like a Prison Sentence that ends when the Sentence Time is up allowing you then to go to heaven, and even some that think the whole concept of hell is fiction.

So How do Interpret this:

Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Now if I remember right, that WAILING and GNASHING, are in the Greek tense that implies a continuous action, and therefore the wailing and gnashing of teeth (bitterness towards God) go on, and on continually.

Yes, I know it says to fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell, but IT DOES NOT MENTION WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON'S "HUMAN SPIRIT". Spiritual Death, DOES NOT MEAN a non-functioning human spirit, but rather a human spirit that NEVER responds to the will of GOD, and is always in rebellion, bitter towards GOD. The exact opposite of being SPIRITUALLY ALIVE towards the LORD GOD our Savior.

 

[Armini3]

I can only imagine if the ability of copy and past wasn't available how much shorter posts would be, one can get a finger work out scrolling the mouse wheel. And "spherical" would think twice of having to type all he posts out and and I have to chuckle that he just gets ignored

 

[fredoheaven]

What is the purpose of planet earth? is earth just a training ground? what about a person that had an unforseen occurence that ended the persons life or that it was cut off too short, they never had the option to know the God of the Bible and be given the choice to serve God so where do they go? why create the physical universe, planet earth etc if ultimately we either end up in heaven or hellfire? that is quite mind numbing for me personally, I really don't understand the whole purpose of it all if I am honest. Surely it has to be logical reasonable and be easy to understand? I don't get it and i'm not sure if I buy this?.

God is good all the time because none is good but Him alone as the scripture says. Now when God created the heaven and the earth and all that are within, God says he created it was good. So as the Creator creates the earth is for the purpose of dwelling of His creation. Earth is intended for man’s dwelling for eternity had not been sin entered. The sin caused the fallen man to be separated from God. The separation is what we call death. Death could be either physical or spiritual. Physical death means the separation of soul and spirit from the body, which soul if not saved will be separated from God (spiritual) for eternity in hell. You don’t have to settle to those people who will have to die not knowing Christ or the Bible. Someone will come to their rescue. God knows more than what we think. Certainly we cannot fathom the wisdom of God, he created man not like a robot and actually, hell is not prepared for man originally but for Satan and his co-host. But for sure, I really don’t know if you have a true intention or have an honest question. Anyway, this is a late response and honestly I don’t know if you still buy this one, since many of the thread or issues goes here are mostly hangs to one corner and are unresolved. Happy viewing!

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him
Gen.1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Literally eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire, with the greatest part of the punishment, being eternal separation from God.

Just so you know, not everyone agrees. I have ran into LOTS of people who think a loving GOD will forgive and accept everyone into heaven, and some who think the punishment will be like a Prison Sentence that ends when the Sentence Time is up allowing you then to go to heaven, and even some that think the whole concept of hell is fiction.

So How do Interpret this:

Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Now if I remember right, that WAILING and GNASHING, are in the Greek tense that implies a continuous action, and therefore the wailing and gnashing of teeth (bitterness towards God) go on, and on continually.

Yes, I know it says to fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell, but IT DOES NOT MENTION WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON'S "HUMAN SPIRIT". Spiritual Death, DOES NOT MEAN a non-functioning human spirit, but rather a human spirit that NEVER responds to the will of GOD, and is always in rebellion, bitter towards GOD. The exact opposite of being SPIRITUALLY ALIVE towards the LORD GOD our Savior.

Hello VCO,

How's it going in your new home? Doing well I hope. Regarding the above, the only thing that I would add is that, at the end of the thousand years, the unrighteous dead--like those in Christ--will also receive a resurrected body at the great white throne judgment, where they will be cast into the lake of fire in that indestructible resurrected body (Rev.20:11-15)


"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended" (Unrighteous dead)

"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

Therefore, at the end of the thousand years, at the GWTJ, the unrighteous dead also receive a resurrected body and those bodies are what they exist in, in the lake of fire.

 

[kedge]

There is no way the thieves would live long after having their legs broken, so they would have died (of asphyxiation) on the same day as well.

What others say.... Jesus could not have been with the thief in heavenly paradise that Friday if He had still not ascended to the Father on Sunday. Is this a contradiction? It would seem to be so on the surface. But what if the comma was after the word today instead of before it? The meaning would change completely.


Jesus could not have been with the thief in heavenly paradise that Friday if He had still not ascended to the Father on Sunday. Is this a contradiction? It would seem to be so on the surface. But what if the comma was after the word today instead of before it? The meaning would change completely.


According to what other say on the topic,

It makes a big difference where the comma is placed. There is a story of a wealthy man whose wife sent him a telegram asking if she could buy a very expensive item. He sent the reply, "No, price too high." Unfortunately the telegraph operator left the comma out of the message. When the wife received the message, "No price too high," she happily went and bought the expensive item.

This story illustrates the importance of correct punctuation. If the punctuation is off by even one word it can mean something entirely different.


[h=3]Conclusion[/h] The Scriptures are clear that Christ had not ascended to the Father on Sunday morning. Therefore, He could not have been with the thief in paradise on Friday. This means that the Bible translators incorrectly placed the comma before the word today instead of after it.

 

[kedge]

people who preached hellfire at me, just made me either angry and defiant.

And to some that is all it is, sinners preaching, preaching scare tactics. There is no real proof that upon death of a bad person that they will burn in hell for all eternity, someone could interpret it that way but that does not mean it is the truth, some Christians believe in hellfire some don't, yet many claim this is the truth from the Bible, obviously someone is right and someone is wrong, but which one is the truth and which is not the truth?

 

[fredoheaven]

(1) The Hebrew word Sheol clearly means "the grave" not "hell." Everyone went to Sheol when they died, not just the wicked. Sheol was not a place of suffering, because in Job 14:13, a much-beset Job asked to go to Sheol to escape suffering. Sheol was not a place where God was absent, because King David said in Psalm 139:8 that when he made his bed in Sheol (i.e., when he died and was laid in his grave), God would be with him. And Sheol was not an eternal inescapable prison, because in Psalm 49:15 the Sons of Korah said that God would redeem them from Sheol, by which they meant that they would be resurrected from the grave to new life. Furthermore, the prophet Ezekiel and the apostle Paul agreed that all Israel would be saved, and yet in Genesis 37:35, Israel himself said that he would be reunited with his son Joseph in Sheol. How can all Israel be saved if Israel himself is in "hell"? In each case Sheol clearly means "the grave" or "the abode of all the dead, good and bad" and cannot be interpreted as "hell" unless "hell" is heaven!

(2) The Greek word Hades also clearly means "the grave" not "hell." Everyone went to Hades when they died, not just the wicked. Hades contained heavenly regions like the Elysian Fields and the Blessed Isles. The Greek hell was Tartarus, which is discussed below, in section 4.

(3) The place name Gehenna does not mean "hell" because Gehenna is a valley in Israel known in Hebrew as Gehinnom, or the Valley of Hinnom. Today Gehenna is a lovely park and tourist attraction. Wonderful archeological discoveries have been made there, such as the healing pool of Siloam and the oldest Bible verses ever discovered, inscribed on small silver amulets. Those verses are the benediction "The LORD bless thee and keep thee; the LORD make his countenance to shine upon thee and be gracious unto thee."

(4) The Greek hell was Tartarus. This is the only word in the Bible that actually means "hell" in either Greek or Hebrew. But the word Tartarus appears only one time in the entire Bible, in 2 Peter 2:4. And that verse is about fallen angels awaiting judgment, so its hell is not eternal and is not for human beings.

How many times is hell mentioned in the Bible?

Is this your site? Well, one of Satan's best kept secret is to annihilate the word "hell" in the sacred pages of the Bible. A friendly reminder is that better not change the records. You might get caught and as a result be punished but not tormented.

 

[fredoheaven]

And to some that is all it is, sinners preaching, preaching scare tactics. There is no real proof that upon death of a bad person that they will burn in hell for all eternity, someone could interpret it that way but that does not mean it is the truth, some Christians believe in hellfire some don't, yet many claim this is the truth from the Bible, obviously someone is right and someone is wrong, but which one is the truth and which is not the truth?

Hi Kedge,

It will be you who can really decide what is truth and what is not. If the scriptures says there is, it is you either to believe it or not. BTW, Jesus is truth John 14:6 and his words is true and because He said it, you have to believe in it, otherwise it's only a lie.