Helmet of "Hope of Salvation"

mailmandan · Feb 27, 2017

From what I have seen when people are saved they aren't made 100% perfect at that time. They are a work in progress. I really don't see what the point is of continuing to condemn people who are a work in progress. The Lord Jesus has given them the ultimate encouragement in Salvation. Shouldn't we, in the Spirit of Christ, continue with that same encouragement?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

So it's not just me.

Excellent post brother!

Grandpa · Feb 27, 2017

mailmandan said:

No sir. Its not just you.

Our only hope is in The Lord Jesus Christ. Some people are still catching up with this little tidbit of Holy Info.....

When people are focused on the law and their work all they see is sin. Everywhere and in everything. When people start to focus on the Lord they get a change of perspective. This is turning around. This is repentance. You can't turn from your works to your other works. All of them fall short.

That's what most of these discussions are about. The Work Required to be Saved and Stay Saved. I could go on and on. But you already know....

DiscipleDave · Mar 12, 2017

mailmandan said:

Those who teach sinless perfection cite the same passages of Scripture that you did in order to try and prove their point, so it appears that you are guilty as charged. Just to go over some of the verses with you from above that you have misinterpreted to teach sinless perfection:

Matthew 5:48 - Be Perfect - Perfect (teleioi). The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

In regards to John 8:11, Jesus was telling her to go and leave her life of sin. She had been practicing adultery. I don't believe that sinless perfection is being taught here. Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him (demonstrative evidence), if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. BTY the Greek word for "know" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over, properly maintain, keep intact. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson explains in 1 John 3:6 - Sinneth not (ouc amartanei). Linear present (linear menwn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of amartanw, "does not keep on sinning." For menw (abide) see Hebrews 2:6 ; John 15:4-10. Whosoever sinneth (o amartanwn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as amarthsa, aorist active participle, would mean). Hath not seen him (ouc ewraken auton). Perfect active indicative of oraw. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (egnwken, perfect active also) of Christ.

1 John 3:9 says - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (KJV); No one who is born of God practices sin.. (NASB).

Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed (sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1. And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartanei in verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartanein here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive). By now you should get the picture.

All believers should love to please their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by obeying Him and hating sin.

Believers no longer continue to "practice" sin (1 Corinthians 6:11; Galatians 5:21; 1 John 3:9) yet that does not mean that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect (just as Jesus is) 100% of the time.

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Verse 10 is in regards to have never sinned.

I'm yet to meet someone who teaches sinless perfection that does not admit they have sinned in the past (pre-conversion), yet they cling to the notion that they are now presently living a sinless life 100% of the time (after-confersion). You agree with 1 John 1:10, but don't seem to agree with 1 John 1:8.

When you are continuously pointing the finger at others as falling short of sinless perfection, yet claiming this for yourself. How could you not enjoy that? This feeds the pride of the self righteous.

Plenty of your posts back up my claim and here are just a few:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146296-not-works-82.html#post2996622

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-christ-do-enough-save-us-21.html#post2972500

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146196-helmet-hope-salvation-4.html#post2924484

You talk as if you are God's special messenger who is living a sinless, perfect, life 100% of the time, yet the rest of us fall way short and are doomed and I'm sure it's not just me on CC who see's it that way.

I have not falsely accused you of anything. I was being completely honest with you about how you come across to me in your posts. Claiming to be sinless, absolutely perfect, 100% of the time seems to be the root cause of your problem which stems from pride and self righteousness.

Think about this: All i have done is give Scriptures which teach NOT to sin, what have you done? You have taken them and interpreted them to mean something other than that. i teach not to obey satan and commit sin, you must believe it is OK to commit sin, because you sure went through a lot of trouble to teach against most of the verses which teach not to sin.

Here is one thing that is TRUE. What i teach, i live. You say it is not possible, i live it. i know all things are possible to them that know God. When God told a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" He was not telling them to do something that was impossible to do, hard and difficult, yes, but not impossible. Those who think they can't cease from sin are indeed cursed children. and those who think they don't have to cease from obeying satan and continue to live in sin, will be weeping and gnashing their teeth when they are not taken with Jesus Christ, who plainly and clearly taught, that HE does not know anyone who practices iniquity. To practice something is to do it over and over and over again. Woe to this generation who will excuse their own sinning, and then ignore, make void, or interpret any verse in Scriptures which says to stop sinning, stop obeying satan, to mean something else. This post is a evident of such interpretations.

Look at it. instead of merely believing what the Word of God says, they have to go to the Hebrew, they have to interpret words to mean this or mean that, they do whatever it takes NOT to believe what the verse actually says and teaches, reprobate minds.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Mar 12, 2017

Grandpa said:

The Law never made anyone perfect, the Law, made everyone realize they needed something else to be Saved, and that was Jesus Christ. Now let us move onto Christians and that they are taught to be perfect. i do not teach they should be perfect, the Word of God plainly and clearly teaches they should be perfect. So you do not believe i am wrong about that, you believe Scriptures are wrong about that.

Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus Himself specifically told us to be perfect, you say "nope that is wrong" Should i believe you or Jesus?

Mat_19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Why would Jesus say "If thou wilt be perfect" if being perfect was not possible to do?

Luk_6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Here Jesus is plainly telling us there are those who are perfect

Joh_17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Again, Jesus teaching that we can be made PERFECT through Him.

1Co_2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Now we have testimony from an Apostle that there were those who were PERFECT.

2Co_13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Php_3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

What? if i teach that we should be perfect just like this Apostle taught that too, see how it is received by this generation?

Col_1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

What? if i confess that i am Perfect in Christ, see how fast i am called self-righteous. And if i am teaching every man to be Perfect in Christ, see how fast this generation throws stones at me. And accuse me of many false things.

Col_4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (another maintenance worker here huh?)

Heb_13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jas_1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

How is his Faith made perfect? wrought with his WORKS, what? yet another maintenance worker?

Jas_3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

This verse outright plainly teaches that a person can be Perfect. But let that person say he is in the Lord and watch this generation attack like someone hitting a beehive. The stones, oh the stones that are thrown, hurtful words, not to encourage or build up, nor are they thrown in LOVE.

1Pe_5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

So all these verses say and teach that a person can be PERFECT. So am i to believe you which teach we don't have to be perfect, or believe Scriptures which instructs us to be Perfect and witnesses that there were Perfect people present even during those times?

Verdict. i choose to believe the Word of God which plainly and clearly teaches we Christian can and should be Perfect as all the Scriptures above plainly teach. So it is not i that you disagree with, but Scriptures which teach to be Perfect, is what you disagree with.

Grandpa said:

i have no clue what you are talking about here. When someone overcomes something, they no longer continue to do that. i smoked for 16 years a pack a day. i tried to quit 6 times and failed miserably. On the 7th time, i decided i was going to quit for Jesus, not for me, not for wife, not for kids, not for family, not for health, not for any other reasons, except i was going to give them up for Jesus Christ, i have not smoked since, and have no desire whatsoever to smoke again. i overcame smoking. If then i still continue to smoke, i have NOT overcame smoking have i?
i do not understand what you are talking about when you say that i am suggesting people forget how and stopped overcoming, what are you talking about Brother?

You are either the workmanship of God or you are not. If you think it is your works that are required to be saved and stay saved I cannot convince you otherwise.[/quote]

Who said you had to convince me of anything? It is not my place to convince you of anything as well. i merely teach what God has told me to teach, if you do not believe it then what is that to me, if you don't? God has already told me, i would not have to convince anyone of the TRUTHS in which He told me, but it was my place to merely reveal the TRUTHS that He told me to reveal. That i do. What i teach is from God, it is not my fault if you don;t believe that is TRUE. But i will concede on one thing you said. you nor any person that is human is going to convince me that what God told me is wrong. So you are right, you will not be able to convince me that what God told me is wrong. i will believe and ALWAYS will believe what God told me, which is nothing contrary to any Scriptures at all. i tell you the TRUTH, you don't believe it, what is that to me, i have done what God requires of me by informing you of the TRUTH.

Also, why is this generation seems to not hear? i fully understand what Jesus meant when He said they have ears but do not hear. i have said over and over and over again, numerous times, which people just seem to not hear. i will say it again.

i never said or taught or believe, that you MUST have Good Works in order to keep your Salvation. This has never come out of my mouth, nor has it been written with my fingers, nor have i ever even implied that this was TRUE, yet over and over again, i am accused of believing that, and all because i teach to maintain good works, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER - which is nothing but works.

Here is what i have been teaching and this generation is so quick to not understand.

If you are SAVED, you WILL have tons of good works, because LOVE (Jesus) lives inside of you.
NO, you can't do good works to remain in your Saved condition. How can i explain this better?

Three people Adam, Bob, and Corby.

Adam: Believes Jesus is the Son of God, and got Saved 7 years ago. Adam believes Faith is all that is needed, and he needs to do nothing else, therefore Adam has no works at all.

Bob: Believes Jesus is the Son of God and got Saved 7 years ago. Bob believes that as long as he continues to good deeds, good works, he will remain Saved and in good standing with Jesus Christ. Bob has tons of good works.

Corby: Believes Jesus is the Son of God and got Saved 7 years ago. Bob is so full of Love that his only desire to help people, to please Jesus Christ, to live a Holy life, to live by the Bible, all of it, not some of it. Bob has tons of good works.

IF you are like ADAM, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth for all the Adams, because they altogether FAILED to keep His Commandments which plainly states to "LOVE ONE ANOTHER" They did not do this.

IF you are like Bob, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth for all the Bobs, because they took thought that good works can SAVED them. they Failed to understand, you can't work your way into Heaven, all that Good that we do is but dung.

IF you are like Corby, there will be much joy and happiness, when he is taken up to be with Christ, NOT because of his good works. His Good works were only evidence of who was actually in his heart, to LOVE PEOPLE.

You see this generation is either Adam or a Bob. most are Adams. i teach about good works not to get one Saved or to remain Saved, or to stay in your Salvation. i teach that TRUE Christians will have Good Works, not because they have to have them, because of who lives inside of them they can't help but to have Good Works. This is an attempt to make those ADAMS out there realize, if they do not have Good Works, they need to check themselves where they actaully stand with God. If you are Truly SAVED, you are a good branch put into a very Good TREE (Jesus) and that branch WILL produce many good fruits, many good deeds, not because of the branch, but because of the TREE that supplies the branch with the nourishment it needs to produce much Fruits. If then you are producing even one bad fruit, that fruit is not coming from, nor being nourished from the TREE, but is coming from another root, that is not a part of that TREE.

If you are Truly Saved, you will have much fruit.
But how many claim to be Saved, and have very little fruit? These are they that i am called to teach. And these are they that will not hear what i teach because they like and love the bad fruit that is produced, they are not willing to get rid of that bad fruit, but would rather be a branch next to the TREE claiming to be a part of that TREE, all the while having another root that brings up evil, (the bad fruit) And because i teach what Scriptures teach, that if any branch is producing bad fruits will be cut off and burnt. Please pay attention here. That branch WAS in the TREE before it was cut out of the tree, and why is it cut out from the TREE? Because that branch was not willing to give up that bad fruit.

Know you not that a little bit of leaven, leaveneth the whole lump. That little bit of bad fruit that you produce, is preventing the Good fruit from appearing. Any branch that is producing bad fruit, it is not very likely they are producing any good fruits at all on that branch.

i remember one time before cellphones, my car broke down on the interstate, i was miles away from an exit. it was freezing and i was not prepared for it, i had no coat. i hitchhiked. hundreds of cars passed me by, not a one picked me up, my thought was is there not one Christian that will stop and pick me up, they can see i am in dire need of help and freezing to death, not one person that drove by was a True Christian. after a mile of walking or so, i then prayed to God for help, immediately a car slug bug car pulled over and inside was a devote Catholic, Catholic trinkets all over his car, this Guy was a Catholic Freak, Mother Mary's everywhere in the car. But God showed me what Typical Christians were that day. How many passed me by which claimed with their mouths they are Saved, but have no good works at all, nor did they want to do any good work. i have not failed to this day to pick up every hitchhiker i have ever seen, if i was able to do so. My point is, MANY claim to be Christians, claim to be SAVED, but their are not Good Fruits that comes from them, this proves who is in their hearts, no matter what they say with their mouths, nor what they believe, such as FAITH ONLY is enough.
Those who are Truly SAVED, will be full of Good Works, not to stay Saved, or remain Saved, but because they ARE SAVED. Woe to all those who claim they are SAVED, yet have no works at all, how are they not exactly like ADAM above?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Mar 12, 2017

Grandpa said:

The problem is, that YOU see it as down playing Salvation. There is NOTHING that i said above that down plays Salvation. It is in your mind that YOU THINK it is being down played, that is the issue. Please tell me, what i have said above what part do YOU THINK is down playing Salvation, will you answer?

Grandpa said:

Are you suggesting that those who get Saved, do not return back to work? please explain.

Grandpa said:

What you do not understand is there is a difference between GETTING SAVED, and BEING SAVED. What you also Don't understand, is you think that if you are SAVED today, there is no possible way that you can deny Jesus in the future? You think that if you are SAVED today, your name is written in the Book of Life, and there is NO possible way whatsoever that it can be blotted out, what you altogether fail to know and understand is there is only ONE DAY that will determine who is Saved and who is NOT Saved, and that is the Day the Book of Life is opened and if your name is found there, you are then SAVED. i can claim to be SAVED today, and i am SAVED. Does that mean i am SAVED? today i am, that does not guarentee that tomorrow i will not deny Jesus Christ and my name be blotted out of the Book of life, or my branch not cut out of the Tree, or the seed that does not take good ground, but landed on bad.
It is a false belief to believe that because you walking SAVED today that you will be walking SAVED 5 years from now. What? Are you claiming to be Saved? What then, it is not possible for you to ever DENY Jesus Christ? Really that is what you believe? NOT possible, EVER. What then? Because you are SAVED today, does that mean you will ALWAYS forgive everyone what they do to you or your family? Know you not that those who deny Jesus will not enter into Heaven, also those who do not forgive others will not be forgiven by the Father either. Are you then saying because you claim to be SAVED, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to every deny Jesus in the future? Are you then saying because you claim to be SAVED, that you will ALWAYS forgive Everyone for what they do to you or your family, ALWAYS?

You may claim to be Saved now, you may claim to be Saved today, but you do not know what the future hold for you, God knows that. One of your children may be raped, and you will NOT forgive that man for what he did to your little girl. And because of your NOT forgiving another of their trespasses you yourself will not be forgiven by God, no matter what you claim today, this is TRUE.

i knew a Godly woman, who was always helping people, reading the Bible, doing Bible studies, in the Church every time the doors were opened. visited hospitals, gave to charities, loved Angels, her whole house was full of Angels and Jesus pictures, She above anyone that i have ever met, even to this day, was more of a Christian than i have ever seen. She was by far the most Godliest woman i have ever met in my life, and that is the TRUTH. She claimed to be Saved. i knew she was Saved, her friends all knew she was Saved, her Family knew she was a devout Christian that was Saved, the Church member all knew she was Saved. She is SAVED. i seen her a few years ago, and she was walking down the street, she did not look happy, like she always did before, i stopped and talked with her, and immediately i can tell something was wrong. i asked her who was she off to help now? She said she no longer does any of that stuff, i asked why? We continued to walk down the sidewalk while she explained what had happened, we went into her house for some lemonade, oh my gosh, her whole house was devoid of anything Christian. Well long story short. her Grandmother died a long horrible painful death. And God did not answer her prayers concerning her grandmother. After she died, she would not have anything to do with God, nor did she even believe there was a God at all. She said NO God would allow her grandmother to go through what she did. Her Grandmother was the most Godliest Christian that she knew. So now she is Atheist. So the MOST Godliest woman that i ever knew, is going to go to Hell, even though at one time she was SAVED. And i already know the dung that people will say now, that she was never Truly Saved to begin with, DUNG, DUNG, DUNG.

i will tell you the TRUTH, and if i am lying may God give to me that painful disease the grandmother had, and not me only but the same disease to all those that i love and love me, if i am lying. If she were to have died during the time before her Grandmother got sick, She would have died SAVED and she would be sleeping waiting for Christ to Rapture her up to this very day. She WAS SAVED, but she chose to deny Christ and reject Him and God. So prior to her Grandmother going through all that suffering, she WAS SAVED and her name was written in the Book of Life. BUT after her grandmother died the way she did, and she chose to deny Christ, to reject God, her name was blotted out of the Book of Life.

So just because YOU claim to be Saved today, does not mean you are guaranteed to be Saved in the future. Just because your name is written in the Book of Life, the moment you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, does not mean it will still be written there on the Day of Judgement when the Book of Life is opened. i have told you the TRUTH, but because you hold on dearly to the OSAS doctrine, you will not hearken unto this Truth, which i say and testifies comes from God Himself. You see, you feel SAFE, thinking that there is nothing you can do to LOSE your Salvation, that is a comforting thought, because if you thought there is a possibility that you could be blotted out of the Book of life, well then, you will have to guard it, you will have to protect it, you will have to take care of it, nourish it, put on the Full armour of God to protect it, yeah, if you could lose it, then you would have to change your entire life. NOPE, its much easier to just believe you can't lose it, and in the end, find out that your name has been blotted out. Very sad indeed that you choose not to listen to someone who claims that what they teach comes from God. NO it's easier to believe i am false, self righteous, arrogant, prideful, maintenance worker, deceived, lacks knowledge, false prophet, false Disciple, false teacher, or whatever other stones they use to throw at me. But i know to whom told me these things, and i also know this generation will absolutely refuse to believe the TRUTH that He told me to teach you.

Grandpa said:

This is absolutely True. i took the sin of cussing, and worked on that till i never cussed again. i took the sin of filthy language, dirty jokes and such, and worked on that, now i no longer tell or hear such filth. i took the sin of anger and i worked on that, and now no longer get angry about anything at all. i choose to react in every situation. i took the sin of smoking, and worked on that until i never smoked again. i took the sin of lying, and worked on that, till i never lied again about anything. i took the sin of lusting at porn, and worked on that till i no longer look at porn. i took the sin of sex (unmarried) and worked on that, and now have been celibate for over 9 years now. and more. one at a time, i got rid of the sin that so easily beset me, to now be where i am today. i hate sinning, i abhor sinning, it is obeying satan, it is evil, it is wickedness, it is darkness, Jesus hates it and i do to. i no longer obey satan and commit sin. NO this does not happen all at once. but this generation doesn't think it needs to happen at all, therein is the problem. They will continue to live in their iniquities until they die or Christ Returns, and they will NOT be taken up with Him, they did not even try to start obeying Jesus and not obeying satan. Much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Grandpa said:

Is that not in your mind, that is what i am doing? A parent says to their child " if you continue to throw that tantrum, you will not get to go outside and play" Did the Parent just condemn the child, or did the Parent just warn the child, if he continues to act that way, he will not go outside? i do exactly this also, i warn people to turn away from their wicked ways and start obeying Jesus Christ and not His enemy the devil. i warn people, i do NOT condemn anyone. If you think i have condemned anyone at all, then show where i have done such an evil, wicked thing, so i can repent of it. i am nobodies judge, i judge nobody at all. if you think i have, and now accuse me of doing that, then reveal where i have done that thing, so i can repent of it.

Grandpa said:

know you not that there are many member to the same body? one is for seeing, one is for hearing, one is for encouragement, one is for bringing people to the Lord, one is for evangelizing, one if for gifts of the Holy Ghost, one is for teaching, one is for prophesying, one is for bringing stores into the Church, one is to run the books in the Church, there are many different parts of the same Body of Christ, my part is, and always has been, since i was born, to reprove, rebuke, and exhort people who claim to be Christians and their deeds prove they are NOT. This is not a very pleasant calling, but is one that God gave me nonetheless. We have many preachers preaching about the Love of Jesus, but very few teaching about His wrath. Many teach about Heaven, Grace, Faith, but very few teach about Hell, sin, fire and brimstone. Many preachers talk about the importance of having Faith, but few talk about the importance of having Works with their Faith.
my Calling is to the backsliders. = Those who claim to be SAVED, yet they knowingly and willingly continue to live in sins. i get many stones thrown at me, even my life has been threatened before because of what i teach. i am hated by many, but i already know the world hated Jesus and the Apostle also, they killed them. i am ready to die as well. But as long as i have breath in me, i will continue to teach what He has told me, to a generation that does not believe God speaks to people any more. A preacher says he is a preacher, and the world accepts that, but let a person say he is a prophet, and watch the stones be thrown. (note: Stones are hurtful things said, false accusations, belittling, putting down, calling names, etc....)
But as i said before, it is not my calling to convince anyone of the TRUTH, only it is my calling to present it to you. What you do with it is on you, my hands are clean.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

wsblind · Mar 12, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

Woe to all those who claim their works and are not saved.

What are works and how many prove salvation? And every single worker for salvation will avoid this question like the plague.

An unbeliever can love,be nice,give,feed the poor, go to church, follow Christs ways,quit smoking,quit drinking, quit a whole bunch of sin, be compassionate, be merciful, have grace, be humble.

So if an unbeliever can do it................what are the works you look for?

Start spinning and twisting.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

How do any of us know ourselves or those close to us?

I remember this sensation of being one with another person. It was weird because I was
the only one feeling it. I felt I clicked with them.

I remember also feeling so totally alone, pushed to the edge.
I have felt that life is totally empty without meaning and then found infinite meaning in
Christ.

So we can never know what is is another, but what we can do is walk in love and encourage,
listen and share Christ. Along the way we will discover things wrong with us and others,
but is like King David we can repent, confess and get right with God the path is open.

As James says, without knowing Christ and repenting, confessing our sins and accepting
forgiveness through the cross we have nothing. Equally without this change showing
itself in our behaviour, feelings, sharing it has not touched us.

I can only say if we walk with an open heart, accept the hurt and dismissal of others,
and share the love He gives us, then we are brothers and sisters in Christ. So let us
encourage one another not that we have arrived or have things to prove but we know
Christ our Lord and His life in our lives.

Praise God that He chose to show us Himself and die for us to bring us life.
Crazy yet glorious, humbling yet bringing joy of our hearts.

Do we have enemies or rather people who are lost, caught in sin and delusion,
awaiting judgement and ceasing to be. There is only one place to stand, in love
and in Christ, when we all know that one day we will die, and need to meet our
maker, getting right with His reality, and walking in life seems the only thing to
do.

mailmandan · Mar 18, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

All you have done is twist the Scriptures to teach sinless perfection.

Those verses do not teach sinless perfection (as Greek scholar AT Robertson clearly explained) and I'm tired of your straw man arguments.

Yeah right.

1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Your true colors are showing.

Once again, Jesus was telling this woman to go and leave her life of sin. She had been practicing adultery. Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

So here you are saying that anyone who believes it's impossible to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life, 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are cursed children? You just called a multitude of born again Christians children of the devil. Your true colors are really showing now.

Key word "practices" iniquity. That does not mean anything less than sinless perfection equates to practices iniquity (1 John 1:8-2:1). These many people in Matthew 7:22 trusted in their works for salvation and NOT in CHRIST ALONE. They were not genuine believers (Matthew 7:21; John 6:40).

The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. The present tense describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Now this doesn’t mean that you can’t possibly ever stumble at all, but it means you do not continue to pursue such sins as a willful, habitual lifestyle. There is certainly a difference between "practice" sin (no repentance, just bring it on) and commit an act of sin but continuing to pursue repentance.

I believe what the Word of God says and the NT was written in Greek, then later translated into English. So here you are accusing anyone who does not agree with your "sinless perfection" doctrine of having a reprobate mind? You just lost all credibility with me.

Did Paul refer to these Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 who had issues with jealously and rivalry as having reprobate minds or as babes/infants in Christ? The most godly Christians who have ever lived were not those who boasted about being sinless, but rather were those who moaned over the sinfulness of their flesh. Nowhere in the Bible do the writers ever claim sinless perfection in the flesh, not even the apostle Paul. See Romans 7.

*This seems to be at the heart of your straw man argument. You seem to believe that everyone else who is not sinless 100% of the time (like DiscipleDave) excuses their sinning, ignores Scriptures that allegedly teach sinless perfection and are obeying satan, but only DiscipleDave is sinless 100% of the time and truly obeys God. You are really full of yourself and you are not fooling me for a second.

Embankment · Mar 18, 2017

Jesus has made us perfect and sinless before God. We ourselves are not sinless. We are not perfect. We can't even get close to being sinless or good. In all the passages where Jesus tells us to be perfect, he means exactly what he is saying. Be perfect! it's your only hope. Jesus says that because he has not yet died on the cross. The old covenant has not been satisfied. That was then & this is now. Today we have a new covenant of grace. We must live in that blessing God freely gave us.

mailmandan · Mar 19, 2017

Embankment said:

Amen! The devil has deceived people in many ways and with many false doctrines, and the heresy of sinless perfection in the flesh is one of them.

1 John 1:8 - "If we say that we have no sin, (PRESENT TENSE) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (PAST TENSE) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

DiscipleDave · Mar 27, 2017

wsblind said:

Those who are Truly Saved, will have so many Works (Fruits) that their desire to LOVE people will be overflowing. Their desire to help people in need will be their top priority in their lives.

Those who claim to be SAVED, because they believe ONLY, and only care about the things in this life, like their job, their status, their marriage, their children, their money situation, their concern for vacations, getting a new lawnmower. They are altogether tied up with their own lives, that LOVING others is not even in sight, and these have NO WORKS at all.

Two types of people in this world.

Those who wake up and think "What can I do for others today?"
and
Those who wake up and think "What can I do for me and mine today?"

i say that those who are Truly SAVED will have tons of Works. And the first thing this generation thinks is that i am teaching Works for Salvation. sigh.. .. ... .

Those who ARE SAVED will have tons of Good works. NOT Because they have to in order to be Saved, they will because they ARE SAVED. For some reason satan has blinded this generation to that TRUTH.

The reason this generation doesn't want to swallow that meat of TRUTH, is because they have NO WORKS, NO FRUITS, NO LOVE one for another. They are devoid of these things, all the while claiming with their own mouths, they are SAVED.

If you are SAVED, you will be producing GOOD WORKS. PERIOD. Woe to those who claim they are Saved, and they are not, and you will know them by their Works, if they have NONE, NO fruits bearing on that branch, Then it doesn't matter what they claim with their mouths, it is the Fruits that reveal what is in their hearts. IF Jesus in Truly in their hearts, they will be LOVING people abundantly, their LOVE will be overflowing. If Jesus is not in them, you will hear them saying with their mouths "I'm Saved, because i believe in Jesus" yet they produce NO Fruits which is the PROOF that Jesus is actually in them. Many claim to believe in Jesus, many claim to be SAVED, you will know who is and who isn't by their fruits. or lack of them.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

willybob · Mar 27, 2017

God will never forsake those that love and obey Him from the heart, the few be that make it. He forsakes all that partake in iniquity which according to scripture are the many, however He desires that none should perish in their sins but rather to turn and live...

We have the hope of salvation in that we should bear our cross to the end. And he that endures to the end the SAME shall be saved, lest we fall into the error of the wicked returning to the file sins of the flesh ('ie' the mark of the beast)....It isn't over till its over, and Paul knew that lest he himself might be a castaway....Dig deep and build upon the Rock of Truth, sin hardens the heart to where it can no longer repent if continued in...The saved are those obeying God from heart purity through covenant relationship with Him...All covenants have conditions, and if the conditions are broken so is the covenant, (common sense)......

willybob · Mar 27, 2017

Solomon said the simple minded believe everything they are told that appeals to the flesh and a man without discernment will persuade himself of iniquity. .(thus they measure themselves, by themselves, for themselves).
But a prudent man will turn from sin in repentance and live.

DiscipleDave · Mar 27, 2017

mailmandan said:

How is believing and OBEYING this verse :

1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Twisting it? Please tell me, how it is not YOU that twists that verse to mean something other than what it plainly says and teaches. Seriously, explain how me believing and obeying that verse is twisting it? lol. say i am twisting, when it is you that twists the Scriptures to mean something other that what it actually says. i can even prove it, if you will answer. What does the above verse mean, please explain what the above verse means. and let us see who twists what? lol.

mailmandan said:

So you testify that you believe that MAN Mr Robertson, over a person who says GOD told them. That reveals a lot.

mailmandan said:

So your calling me a LIAR. Which Rev 21:8 plainly teaches that ALL LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone. So you think that i am now lying to you about this?

mailmandan said:

i have sinned plenty. i have sinned. i have sinned. i have not, nor ever stated that i HAVE NO SIN in my life. Not once have i claimed that, nor believe that. Tell me. if i no longer continue to live in sin, how is that saying "i have no sin"? i am not saying "i have no sin" i have made it plainly known that i have probably sinned more than all reading this combined, and that is probably true. i have sinned plenty, that has NOTHING to do with how i am living now. i have sinned, i no longer continue to obey satan and live in sin. If then it is True that i do all things to please Jesus Christ, how are you not now calling that which is good evil by saying you are showing your true colors, i say that i do ALL things to please Jesus Christ, which is TRUE, God is my witness, let me die if it is a lie. But you call me a LIAR. If you think i have done or said something sinful then point it out. You have to believe the way you do, because if you believed that a person through the strength of Jesus Christ could walk even as Jesus walked, then that would mean you would have to give up sinning in your life, and we just can't have that. No sir. Anyone who teaches you can stop sinning must be evil. Yes Sir, anyone who teaches you can stop obeying satan through the help of Jesus Christ must be off their rockers. Yeah i totally understand, you choose to swallow the blue pill, because the red pill is just too hard for you to do, quit sinning. NO Sir. the blue pill teaches continue to obey His enemy and still go to Heaven, all you have to do is believe. The red pill, well you would just have to lose your life for Jesus. Give up all selfish sinning.

mailmandan said:

i highlighted above what is apparent you did not understand. i know this generation which takes the woman and teaches what you say here to negate what Jesus actually said, as if He should have said it the way you are saying it. But you conveniently did not explain why Jesus told the Man to "Go and Sin no more". Why? Because you can't use the same logic to disclaim what Jesus said as He did to the woman. Wander why? Because they can't change the Words of the Lord to fit their own agenda. What sin did the man do? Why would Jesus our Lord and Savior tell a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" if that is not EXACTLY what He wanted them to do. This generation is so steeped into the lies of satan they are blind to the TRUTH of Scriptures, and why? Because they love to sin, and are not willing to give it up. That is the TRUTH. There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from. Why then are you continuing to live in them? Because you love it. Who willingly commits a sin that they don't WANT to commit?

mailmandan said:

YOu do error if you think it is me that is saying that. i am not saying that, this verse plainly teaches that.

2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, AND that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

This verse, not i, teaches that those who have eyes full of adultery (PORN), AND can't cease from sin, are cursed children.

And as to your statement that it is i that just called a multitude of Christians children of the devil, you do error yet again, it is not i that teaches that, but the Word of God plainly teaches that.

1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

So then according to this inspired by God, HOLY Scripture, the children of the devil are those doeth not righteousness (Failing to do that which is Godly and Right) And also teaches the children of the devil are those who do not LOVE ONE ANOTHER. i don't teach these things, these things are in the very Word of God that you say you believe. Those who LOVE ONE ANOTHER are children of God. Those who fail to LOVE ONE ANOTHER are children of the devil. because YOU do not believe that Scripture, is the reason you think it is coming from me. If it is coming from me, then you don't have to believe it, do you? But i have told you it is not from me, but from Scriptures. But because this generation is blinded by the false doctrines that they believe they will not open their eyes to this TRUTH, it is EASIER to just accuse me, then to actually believe it is the Word of God that teaches what i am saying.

mailmandan said:

YOU say they trusted in their works for Salvation, because you refuse to see the TRUTH that it was their LACK of works, their LACK of Loving One Another that prevented them from being with Jesus. The parable plalinly teaches when you do it not for the least, you are not doing for Christ. When you don't give to charities, you are not giving to Christ, When you don't feed the hungry, you not feeding Christ. When you don't cloth the naked, you are not clothing Christ. This generation fails miserably to understand the main point of that parable. You justify your own selves by saying those are people trying to do Works for their Salvation. Which is totally an illogical conclusion, because those did NOT have any works at all. If they would have clothed the naked, Jesus would never have said "When you did not cloth the naked you did not cloth me" Why? Because they never clothed the naked, they never fed the hungry, then never did any works at all, WHY? Because Jesus was NOT in them, even though these same called Jesus "LORD" Is it not written that no man can call Jesus "LORD" but by the Holy Ghost. These called Jesus "LORD" but why were they refused, not because they believed in the LORD, they did, because they called Jesus "LORD" They were rejected because they had no LOVE one for another in their hearts. They did not help the needy, feed the hungry, give to the poor, visit the sick, and the such, they believed ONLY, but had NO WORKS.

mailmandan said:

Are you not reading what i write? Did i not just say this, yet you say again, as if you did not read that i have already said this:

mailmandan said:

This is True. However to stumble is not willful. A person does not willingly stumble over something. To stumble is to do it by accident. Anyone who continue to commit the same sin over and over again, is in fact practicing that sin. If a person can't or is unwilling to cease from a particular sin, they likewise are practicing that particular sin. i am not, nor have i ever taught sinless perfection, in the way that a person will NEVER sin again. That is NOT what i am teaching. Even though i do all things to please Jesus Christ, does not mean i Can't commit sin. A drunk driver may smash into my Mothers car and kill her, And there will be unforgiveness for that person in my heart, for a time, That unforgiveness is sinful. But with the help of Jesus i can forgive that person. Even though today i am walking in the light as Jesus walked in the light, does not mean next week i CAN'T deny Jesus. i would like to think i would never deny Jesus, EVER. But if God decides to test me like He did JOB, and i lose everyone and everything, who knows what i will do? i would like to think i would know what i would do, but until your actually in that situation you just don't know do you?
What i teach against are sins that are knowingly and willingly committed over and over and over again. These are the types of sin that are unto DEATH, and not unto life. Someone who accidentally commits sin, or unintentionally, or stumbles, these are not sins unto death. But those that are committed knowingly and willingly, knowing full well they are sinful, but you do them anyways, these are the sins unto Death, and it does not matter what you say out of your mouth. These are the sins that i teach against, the Sin unto Death.

mailmandan said:

Do you not read what i say? NOWHERE above in all that i say above does it say that i think whoever don't agree with ME has a reprobate mind. That is what YOU believe i think and teach, because you do not understand the TRUTH that i teach. You accuse me of many things that are not TRUE, but you accuse me of those things, because it is what YOU have to believe in order to keep the false doctrines that you hold on to, right? What i said above is absolutely TRUE, Anyone who does whatever it takes NOT to believe what a verse actually says and teaches has a reprobate mind. How do you think that is NOT TRUE? Wait, you going to plead the 5th?

You say

lol, and when did i have it? How can you lose something that you NEVER had for me?

mailmandan said:

Reprobate minds are they that excuse their sinning instead of ceasing from them.

mailmandan said:

Anyone who boasts about being sinless is evil and not of God. The problem that i have though is not that i ever boast, but someone will ask me if i sin or not, and if i tell them the Truth, Then they say i am boasting. If i say i do all things to please Jesus Christ. This generation does not think "Wow, that is awesome, how do you do it? I would love to be able to do that" NO, NOT this generation, i say " i do all things to please Jesus Christ " and the stones get thrown. They say that i am conceited, self righteous, arrogant, a Liar, False, fake, deceiver, boastful, prideful, and all other manner of stones they throw, when i am telling them the TRUTH. But because this generation rejects the TRUTH of God, they will most certainly reject what God has told me to teach to it.

mailmandan said:

This statement proves that you have not studied the Bible on this matter: The Apostle Paul over and over again, teaches us to no longer obey the flesh and its desires, He teaches to put off the flesh, not to obey the flesh, and to mortify the deeds of the flesh.

Jesus told a man a woman to "Go and sin no more" Which of a TRUTH is sinnless perfection, NOT His fault that you change what He said to mean something other than what He said.

James even taught:

Jas_3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

So then James plainly teaches that it is possible for a person not to offend in WORD, and is able to control his/her entire Body.

You see the Scriptures teach it over and over and over again, you don't believe it, therefore it does not matter how many verses that i show you where Scriptures teaches that it is so, you are not going to believe it. If you Truly want to see what the Word of God says concerning that topic then you will read the articles in the website below called "Sin no More" and the article called "Keep on sinning" if you are like the Bereans you will read those articles and see the HUNDREDS of verses which teach the TRUTH which this generation CAN'T or Won't see, because of the blinders satan has on them.

mailmandan said:

i am not fooling you at all, but somebody is fooling you is certain. i will say what i said again:

You say that i compared myself to everyone else who is not sinless 100%. Where is that information coming from? This information is coming from the one who is fooling you for sure. in what i have said above, i have not, nor ever did compare myself with anyone at all, that is all in your mind. Who told you that i thought i was the only sinless person 100% of the time, Who is whispering these things to you, who told you these things? These thoughts are not from me, i have never said anything remotely like these things, but you seem to think in your mind that what you are saying is what i think, who is telling you these things, i assure you it is not God. YOU, not me, has included a comparison with me and others. i have never done such a thing, but you have done this thing on your own.

The statement i made was specifically to those who will excuse their own sinning. That is to whom the statement was too. Not to you, not about you, not against you. but clearly if you read and understand what i am saying, it was to those who will excuse their own sinning, and then ignore, make void, or interpret any verse in Scriptures which says to stop sinning, stop obeying satan, to mean something else. THOSE WHO DO THAT what i just said, is to whom i was saying it to. i did not, nor ever have compared myself with anyone at all. That is all in your own mind. But i still Love you.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Grandpa · Mar 27, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

1 Corinthians 15:34 [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Awake to righteousness[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

[/FONT]2 Corinthians 3:14 [FONT=&quot]But [/FONT][FONT=&quot]their minds were blinded[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

[/FONT]Matthew 13:13 [FONT=&quot]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

[/FONT]Romans 3:21-22
[FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

So are you looking for sinlessness or many works? What works are you looking for?

Just the statement that you believe and OBEY verses in the bible already tells me you don't have elementary understanding of yourself or the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hint #1 - Show somewhere where the Lord Jesus Christ tells someone congratulations on their sinlessness and perfect obedience.

Hint #2 - The reason the Lord Jesus doesn't congratulate anyone on their performance is because there is only One whose performance is up to par. (See Matthew 5:48)

I wish I could open the eyes of the blind and heal the lepers. I wish I could do those works. But there is only One. You have to go to Him for these Good Works. There are so few who understand this.[/FONT]

valiant · Mar 27, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

Hope because it is the glorious hope we look forward to. We have not yet seen our final salvation, therefore we are looking forward to it with hope and expectancy. what we have not yet seen why do we hope confidently for it? Because what is our future is as certain as if we could see it.

valiant · Mar 27, 2017

When God saves someone He gives then rebirth and makes them new creatures (Tit 3.5). Thus is it IMPOSSIBLE to be saved and not produce the result. But Salvation means GOD saving. And when He does it He does it for ever.

YOUR God apparently doesn't save.

JIMBO43 · Mar 27, 2017

valiant said:

No God can not stop you from unsaving your self...period...

JIMBO43 · Mar 27, 2017

put it this way If God could stop you from unsaving your self then why is there so many heading for hell.

JIMBO43 · Mar 27, 2017

and what makes you so special that he would stop you only and no one else ?.

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