HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE NT]?

[Hizikyah]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

And there is no different path for a Jew than a gentile, and NEVER HAS BEEN:

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Matt 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be."

Jesus didn't get the law change memo?

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey?So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

The real rest is this:

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And Yahweh rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as Yahweh did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Revelation 21:4-8 And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful.And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone--which is the second death."

 

[Word_Swordsman]

And I will illustrate why;

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

What did, "take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people" mean?

By lawless people was he actually warning against people who would preach obedience to said Law?

Or by lawlessness is he warning against people who would preach against said Law THROUGH THEIR MISUNDERSTANDING? That we are warned of; "hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people"

Reply to post #6: The whole chapter identifies the troublemakers who were under no law, not of Moses nor the New Covenant. They were brash to teach against the reality of Noah's flood. They preached against the notion of the Lord's return and judgment.

Peter there preached confirmation of the things the skeptics denied. Stick with that, ye godly, stay blameless and spotless.

Such skeptics have difficulty with Paul's epistles, which Peter commended, even though Peter was all Jew and his ministry focus was to Jews, so he had to not offend Jews, yet preach Christ in ways acceptable to them, while Paul's focus was on Gentiles, willing also to shame himself to win over fellow Jews. The skeptics were in denial over many issues, so definitely would have trouble understanding Paul. Their tactic then was to twist Paul's words "and the other scriptures" to suit their own beliefs, to their own destruction as explained by Peter in chapter 3.

The epistles were rapidly circulated among the churches, even some letters we don't have a copy of yet. They were widely accepted as inspired word of God even though addressed to a single church. The things Paul dealt with were not limited to any single church body. I recognize every church I am familiar with as more or less "present" in every epistle. All churches share the same problems that would draw the attention of an apostle, beliefs and acts that could put leaven into the gospel if allowed to spread. Each church learned from the issues faced by other churches.

 

[Hizikyah]

2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Peter 2:9-16, "9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10and especially those who indulgee in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, 11whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. 12But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, 13suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions,f while they feast with you. 14They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, 16but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness."

next chapter:

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[ISeeYou]

Which time is this time was this time that this was imposed?

Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

I'm not arguing against what day of the week you desire to worship, or even doing away with any of the law, or even changing one jot or tittle of the law. What I am saying is many of those ordinances given in the law of Moses were a sign, a token, a shadow of greater spiritual things to be revealed later by the Holy Spirit.

Even the clean and unclean beasts given in the old testament were just for a shadow of things, animal sacrifice was a shadow of things, the feast days were a shadow of things, circumcision was a shadow of things, the earthly tabernacle was a shadow of things etc.

Now, if you want to worship the shadow of things and not the True, then go right ahead. But if you want to know what those shadows represent, then seek understanding in them from the Lord by faith.

And for your own sake, stop trying to condemn others in matters you yourself don't fully understand.

 

[Hizikyah]

10and especially those who indulgee in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

I wonder if "defiling passion" is against any Law?

"and despise authority"

Who does authority come from?

Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not from Me; they have made princes, whom I did not know..."

Romans 13:1-2, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not from Me; they have made princes, whom I did not know..."

Luke 4:5-6, "And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will."

Acts 4:26, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against Yahweh and against his Anointed."

Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."

and what is authority?

Revelation 2:27 English Standard Version
"and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father"

Revelation 2:27 , "And He will rule them with a rod of iron; as the potter's vessels will be broken to pieces--as I also have received from My Father."

Psalm 45:6, "Your throne, given of Yahweh, is for ever and ever; the scepter, of Your kingdom is a scepter of righteousness."

Hebrews 1:8, "But to the Son He says: The throne of Your Father is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom."

Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[oldthennew]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

yes, here a little, there a little, - I pray that we all learn and glean from one another.
it's when we become over-speakers that we begin to lose the love that should
accompany our words and the sharing with each other.

I always ask Christ and myself, am I speaking with your love in my heart and
using the words and wisdom that You would have me use?

when I am honest, I will see and discern myself first, and then my brother.

 

[Hizikyah]

I'm not arguing against what day of the week you desire to worship, or even doing away with any of the law, or even changing one jot or tittle of the law. What I am saying is many of those ordinances given in the law of Moses were a sign, a token, a shadow of greater spiritual things to be revealed later by the Holy Spirit.

Even the clean and unclean beasts given in the old testament were just for a shadow of things, animal sacrifice was a shadow of things, the feast days were a shadow of things, circumcision was a shadow of things, the earthly tabernacle was a shadow of things etc.

Now, if you want to worship the shadow of things and not the True, then go right ahead. But if you want to know what those shadows represent, then seek understanding in them from the Lord by faith.

And for your own sake, stop trying to condemn others in matters you yourself don't fully understand.

If you want o trivialize what the Messiah and His Father say to do, that is your choice.

How can you tell me to stop "condemning others"

I have NEVER spoken upon ones eternal future

Calling out a Scriptural falsehood is just that


Proverbs 27:5-6, "Open rebuke is better than concealed love. Faithful are the wounds from a friend, but the kisses from an enemy are deceitful."

Im sure you can find a ton of churches that will never correct anything, as long as you keep giving them money....

How can you tell me im wrong in my view, and then when I disagree you say im "condemning" would you not be saying the same when you said:

I haven't been here very long at this forum, but what I have seen from some of your posts Hizikyah that it is you who do not understand, or truly hear what the Holy Spirit is saying in the Law. This is the same mistake the Sadduces and Pharisees made concerning the spiritual law of God. You judge it by outward appearances, and not by the mind of the Spirit.

Just like eating pork will not defile a man, because physical meats cannot enter into the heart of man. If you cannot understand that, then you are still in the flesh, and unable to understand Paul as Peter also said.

I have the testimony of Jesus Christ. I come in the name of the Lord! Why do you not hear my words?

So im in the flesh because I understand what parable means?

Satan love it when the "church" is to the point of not being about to call error what it is ...error.

It called the "mystery of Iniquity"

 

[gb9]

If you want o trivialize what the Messiah and His Father say to do, that is your choice.

How can you tell me to stop "condemning others"

I have NEVER spoken upon ones eternal future

Calling out a Scriptural falsehood is just that


Proverbs 27:5-6, "Open rebuke is better than concealed love. Faithful are the wounds from a friend, but the kisses from an enemy are deceitful."

Im sure you can find a ton of churches that will never correct anything, as long as you keep giving them money....

How can you tell me im wrong in my view, and then when I disagree you say im "condemning" would you not be saying the same when you said:





So im in the flesh because I understand what parable means?

Satan love it when the "church" is to the point of not being about to call error what it is ...error.

It called the "mystery of Iniquity"

you are correct that there are many churches that do not say anything about sin or personal holiness. they are wrong for that. but you are also wrong for setting yourself up as a corrector. ever occur to you that you could have an error here or there??

 

[Hizikyah]

Which time is this time was this time that this was imposed?

Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

i will prove Scriptural before I speak:

Isayah 66:21-24, "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, says Yahweh. For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all flesh."

I could post a handful more but if one will reject that , there is no point.

4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law),
9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.
10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

....

this is about the transfer of the priesthood, the letter to the Hebrews was to those in the "temple" still trying to act like Levitical priests, the priesthoods is now after the order of Melchizedek...

If you think that does away with any Laws of Yah you are mistaken: Sacrifice is truly completed Messiah, but us being born 2,000 yrs later would have no cleansing from that bloof if it were abloished, only because YAHWEH set forth a Law that said, blood = remission of sin is it even possible..... and the priesthood is also of Messiah;


1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Has heaven and earth passed away? I will give you a minute to look out your window.......

No? Still there? So according to HIM, not me, Him, nothing will pass from the Law. (the real Sacifice is complete, and the Pristhood has taken on it true form, as Yahshua is the High Priest now.)

When will heaven and earth pass? Does Scripture give us a hint? Thank Yah, it does;

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

[h=1]2 Corinthians 3:6-16[/h][SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

 

[Hizikyah]

you are correct that there are many churches that do not say anything about sin or personal holiness. they are wrong for that. but you are also wrong for setting yourself up as a corrector. ever occur to you that you could have an error here or there??

I will thank you more than you would think I would if you could prove I had an error, I know I do not know everything, but I THANK! the man that can show me an error in my belief...

WHY?

Because if I can be proved wrong it means I believed something that was not true, I do not want to believe anything that is not true. I care not for comfort, I personally, would rather obtain the truth even if I have to cry for 2 weeks.

My issue is, many people that disagree with me, WILL not even touch certain verses, how can I think that person is trying to seek truth themselves and trying to lead me to truth if they ignore some of the words of Yah?

I have more then once asked those that disagree with me to give me a explanation of Daniyl 7:25 (among other verses)

I got virtually zero assessment about it, not just here but in the world too.

The most common reply is well that OT so it has no bearing...

Daniyl 7 is end times, it talks about the Messiah;'s 2nd coming that is still future, so any who discard that verse are NOT SEEKING truth or they dont realize they are in error.

Is there anything wrong with my assesment in that matter or similar matters?

If we are seeking truth we will consume the entire word, like

CAN WE PLEASE APPLY THE ENTIRE WORD?

Revelation 12:17 King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I get told at best, Command of God is love, uhh how do we love?...

but I know I know, Im so so evil and every one can point their finger at me and say, "he says we should listen to the Messiah, hes a justified by work lost fallen fool."

and im the one who is coming out looking bad there...

seems Scripture IS true:

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

went to make war with those who forsook

went to make war with those who forsook

went to make war with those who forsook

but im so bad I know.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

I can't read this thread that I just found - but I just want to say - we/any of us can make mistakes but -


NO! - PAUL MADE NO MISTAKES!
AND WHOEVER SAYS THAT he DID, IS ENTERING INTO DANGEROUS TERRITORY!




God forgive any of you that have written that here - but may He also openly correct you or
just see what that error written against Paul, can or will bring to The Church. God have Mercy here.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

And there is no different path for a Jew than a gentile, and NEVER HAS BEEN:

Two paths recognized in Acts 15:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The old one was admitted as a failure. That began in the discussion with Acts 15:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


Then arose the Christian Pharisees with Acts 15:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Peter won the debate with Acts 15:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

James, pastor of that church in Jerusalem, settled it. Acts 15:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

No keeping the law of Moses for Gentile Christians. No circumcision required for salvation of Gentile Christians. There is no way around that. The Jews in that meeting were silenced. It wasn't over with, though, for Jews went out to subvert that decision of the Church, being a thorn in Paul's side continually. Paul well identified their devilish denials of the gospel of Christ, as we do now expose the unbelievers that do the same things they did to Jesus and the apostles, and many generations of Christians.

The Jews and Jewish Christians were not forbidden to do such things, even though obviously none of the former things saved people. What the Gentiles did with the gospel does save, nothing of the law hindering disciples of Chirist. Jesus and the apostles issued the law of God that saves.

The Judaizers are free to walk their path of destruction in ignorance, promoting an abolished religion to their own destruction. Their minds are yet blinded by Satan, with God allowing that so the Gentile world can come to him through Jesus. Christians are called to stand up for the gospel truth, having the mind of Christ and walking the path of the Lord.

 

[Hizikyah]

2 Corinthians 3:6-16

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

2 Corinthians 12:16

New International Version
Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!

New Living Translation
Some of you admit I was not a burden to you. But others still think I was sneaky and took advantage of you by trickery.


1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

You may stand on Paul words I will stand on the Messiah's words.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

So is that what you think Paul is saying? To reject what YHWH Instructs?

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Has heaven and earth passed away? I will give you a minute to look out your window.......

No? Still there? So according to HIM, not me, Him, nothing will pass from the Law. (the real Sacifice is complete, and the Pristhood has taken on it true form, as Yahshua is the High Priest now.)

When will heaven and earth pass? Does Scripture give us a hint? Thank Yah, it does;

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This seems to be one of your favorite verses in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Wow, what a revelation! That would make the law prophecy. Imagine that, perhaps we should look at the law with the mind of the Spirit.

Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Re: HIZIKYAH'S TOPIC: DID PAUL SIN [DESPITE BEING T DESIGNATED HUMAN EXAMPLE IN THE

Hey, was Jesus talking about tossing your costume jewelry to filthy farm animals here?

Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Hmmm maybe the Lord speaks by the prophets and the law in similitudes, proverbs, and parables as well?

 

[Hizikyah]

Two paths recognized in Acts 15:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The old one was admitted as a failure. That began in the discussion with Acts 15:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


Then arose the Christian Pharisees with Acts 15:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Peter won the debate with Acts 15:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

James, pastor of that church in Jerusalem, settled it. Acts 15:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

No keeping the law of Moses for Gentile Christians. No circumcision required for salvation of Gentile Christians. There is no way around that. The Jews in that meeting were silenced. It wasn't over with, though, for Jews went out to subvert that decision of the Church, being a thorn in Paul's side continually. Paul well identified their devilish denials of the gospel of Christ, as we do now expose the unbelievers that do the same things they did to Jesus and the apostles, and many generations of Christians.

The Jews and Jewish Christians were not forbidden to do such things, even though obviously none of the former things saved people. What the Gentiles did with the gospel does save, nothing of the law hindering disciples of Chirist. Jesus and the apostles issued the law of God that saves.

The Judaizers are free to walk their path of destruction in ignorance, promoting an abolished religion to their own destruction. Their minds are yet blinded by Satan, with God allowing that so the Gentile world can come to him through Jesus. Christians are called to stand up for the gospel truth, having the mind of Christ and walking the path of the Lord.

One that is about ENTERING a synagogue, not about following in perfection, two you might be interested to find that the are forged words in that translation:

You will notice different words in verse 24:
English Standard Version
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,

New American Standard Bible
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,

King James Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

and on top off that lets consider this:

Acts 15:

19Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Why only these things? Is nothing else a sin?

no because they will learn the rest every Sabbath:

"For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues"

For nobody will ever walk perfect in the Law while in the flesh, so how could gentiles, who had no clue of what Yah says, follow everything perfectly before they even walked in the door.

No I understand one could say, "oh he is denying what is written" well lets look at the words of the Messiah:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

So Messiah says listen to Moses but now a few books later no dont?

and I am not saying sacrifice and priesthood, Messiah was the Sacrifice and He is the priest, yet do not kill, do not steal, do not make empty the name of YHWH, remember the Sabbath, honor your father and mother, love you neighbor as yourself, You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight, Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life, Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits, If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him, etc

These thing are in the "Law of Moses" and they do apply to ME, and I would thikn everyone who follows Yahshua (Jesus) if they lisen to what He says, Matt 23 etc etc etc.

Has the wicked been made ashes yet?

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Has heaven and earth passed away? I will give you a minute to look out your window.......

No? Still there? So according to HIM, not me, Him, nothing will pass from the Law. (the real Sacifice is complete, and the Pristhood has taken on it true form, as Yahshua is the High Priest now.)

When will heaven and earth pass? Does Scripture give us a hint? Thank Yah, it does;

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

 

[ISeeYou]

Paul speaks of times which applied until the time of reformation

Speaks of the commandments contained in the ordinaces here

Ephes 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Of carnal ordinances here (in respects to meats and drinks) and divers washings which were imposed

Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

Grace (not meats) establish the heart

Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

As Jesus speaks to what entereth not into his heart (verses belly)

Mark 6:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Took the handwriting of the ordinances out of the way on the cross

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And these as it relates to the carnal ordinances of meats and drinks (see verse 2:16)

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which again, shows the same thing

Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

Which he said were a shadow of things to come.

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus said,

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Jesus said,

Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

And,

Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 6:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

What others allow for themselves according to conscience is spoken of

Romans 14:6 He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

1Cr 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them.

But not imposed

1Cr 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

And in the same did Paul exercise himself (in respects to his conscience) and others

John 1:7 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Heb 13:9... For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Heres a few that speak in accord

 

[Hizikyah]

This seems to be one of your favorite verses in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Wow, what a revelation! That would make the law prophecy. Imagine that, perhaps we should look at the law with the mind of the Spirit.

Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

Hey, was Jesus talking about tossing your costume jewelry to filthy farm animals here?

Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Hmmm maybe the Lord speaks by the prophets and the law in similitudes, proverbs, and parables as well?

So I just dont get you guys.... He says Unless heaven and earth pass, Rev 21:1-2 says LITERALLY says heaven and earth will pass, did this happen yet?
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

So because He does use parables, everything He says is a parable? What about when His disciples say, "what is the meaning of the parable?" Come on.

And He explains?

Mk 7:17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

Mt 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

Is this a parable:

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."
Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.