Homosexuality is not a choice!!!!
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K
Nobody is saying they are in tuned with darkness, the only ones saying that is those of you who think the thought alone is placing them in darkness.
This issue has to do with sound doctrine because sound doctrine of God's word does not have a struggling believer as lost or headed to not ending up with salvation.
But by your understanding they would be because you speak as though you believe in a "sinless perfection" doctrine which is a lie !!!
You need to take into account the bible speaks on only if the person acts on the sinful thoughts does that lead them to ruin, not the thought alone................
I know some homosexuals that have come to Christ and are saved, they still have those tendacies arise at time but they do not act on them and they bring them under control. This does not make them lost, unsaved, or condemned !!!
This issue has to do with sound doctrine because sound doctrine of God's word does not have a struggling believer as lost or headed to not ending up with salvation.
But by your understanding they would be because you speak as though you believe in a "sinless perfection" doctrine which is a lie !!!
You need to take into account the bible speaks on only if the person acts on the sinful thoughts does that lead them to ruin, not the thought alone................
I know some homosexuals that have come to Christ and are saved, they still have those tendacies arise at time but they do not act on them and they bring them under control. This does not make them lost, unsaved, or condemned !!!
Hebrews 3:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Unbelief / disobedience = sinning
The writer of Hebrews was referring the willful sinning to those that reject the sacrifice of Jesus...those are unbelievers...remember every 'church' had both believers and unbelievers in their midst...just like we do now...
Rejecting Christ is the unpardonable willful sin....there remains no more sacrifice of sins for these people..Heb 10:26
Ok...Let's say your way of willful sinning is just plain everyday sin as you say.... let's look at it your way...what if someone was mad at their spouse and did not forgive them of something. This goes on for a few months...or even years as I have seen happen.....they are always holding that against them...they die one night in their sleep..not having forgiven the spouse.
In your gospel ( good news ) they would go to hell...that is a "works-based" religion and it is not the gospel of the grace of Christ.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Unbelief / disobedience = sinning
The writer of Hebrews was referring the willful sinning to those that reject the sacrifice of Jesus...those are unbelievers...remember every 'church' had both believers and unbelievers in their midst...just like we do now...
Rejecting Christ is the unpardonable willful sin....there remains no more sacrifice of sins for these people..Heb 10:26
Ok...Let's say your way of willful sinning is just plain everyday sin as you say.... let's look at it your way...what if someone was mad at their spouse and did not forgive them of something. This goes on for a few months...or even years as I have seen happen.....they are always holding that against them...they die one night in their sleep..not having forgiven the spouse.
In your gospel ( good news ) they would go to hell...that is a "works-based" religion and it is not the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Identifying openly as a homosexual when one has been delivered of it is a slap in the face of Jesus. That's like a man who has been forgiven and delivered of a demon saying he is demonized. Do you not see how people who are set free need to align their mouths with the truth, else what is in their heads will spill out and reveal what sort of persons they really are believing themselves to be?
Matthew 15:18
But whatever [word] comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and this is what defiles and dishonors the man.
Luke 6:45
A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.
Nonsense. A struggling believer simply needs some sound counsel and discipling.
It's a pretty miserable Christian who is plagued with sinful thoughts. Jesus died to free people of that, too.
No one has said they are lost or condemned. We are saying that they can have freedom from these patterns of thinking. It is OK to expect to be freed of it. People like yourself who seem to think it's OK for them to suffer in the mind with their demonically inspired thoughts are no friends at all. Lay hands on them! Speak to the spiritual force that is at the root of them. Free your friends because you love them like Jesus does!
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Matthew 15:18
But whatever [word] comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and this is what defiles and dishonors the man.
Luke 6:45
A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart.
Nonsense. A struggling believer simply needs some sound counsel and discipling.
It's a pretty miserable Christian who is plagued with sinful thoughts. Jesus died to free people of that, too.
No one has said they are lost or condemned. We are saying that they can have freedom from these patterns of thinking. It is OK to expect to be freed of it. People like yourself who seem to think it's OK for them to suffer in the mind with their demonically inspired thoughts are no friends at all. Lay hands on them! Speak to the spiritual force that is at the root of them. Free your friends because you love them like Jesus does!
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K
First the Greek word in Hebrews 3:18 means disobedience, KJV used the wrong translation there in saying believed not.
The writer of Hebrews was showing that unbelief was not simply just not believing He exists, unbelief is also being disobedient to Christ. This disobedience includes to His teachings and commands !!!
Second it does not say they in Hebrews 10 reject His sacrifice, it says they trample on His sacrifice by continuing to willfully keep sinning.
Finally as for your last statement there Jesus clearly states that if you have something against another we have to work it out before standing before Him in Matthew 5.
Also Apostle Paul shows multiple times a unforgiving heart is not of God !!!
By your understanding a person can deny that passage of being reconciled by Jesus, and can have a unforgiving heart.
Also it is not my gospel.........It is Jesus Christ gospel !!!
I dont think anyone is saying that they are condemned. I thought what we were speaking on was the identity.
If a person has been regenerated,he has a new identity in Christ. Words we speak have meaning.
Matthew 15:18
But whatever [word] comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and this is what defiles and dishonors the man.
K
If they are still struggling with that sin then they need to acknowledge it, and the bible gives confession with one another as part of the healing process.
Therefore they are not wrong to identify the sinful issues they are still struggling with !!!
They are not defiled for acknowledging their sinful behaviors, as that is what we are called to do is acknowledge our sinful ways. This is part of repenting of them !!!
Yes a struggling believer does need guidance and counseling and discipline, however if they die while still in that struggling state they will not be lost or condemned.
You continue to make it a all or nothing situation and thus place false assumptions on others, as I never said to leave them in that state without helping them as you try to make it sound.
But what I do is say that if they die while still struggling and in that mindset they will still receive eternal life through Christ, because thought does not lead to eternal death. It is the acting on it and letting it control you that does !!!
Yes..all Christians can walk according to the flesh...and they will reap according to the flesh too if God's mercy doesn't intervene. Why He does in some cases and not in others is a complete mystery to me. I suppose He will tell us when we see Him.
So, an alcoholic that has not been taught who they are in Christ..cannot stop drinking..he drinks until he dies..in your gospel he goes to hell for his "willful" sinning...just a religious person telling the alcoholic....just stop drinking....is not the gospel....it's legalism at it's finest!
The book of Hebrews was telling the Jews about their forefather's disobedience and they died in the wilderness because of it. That was their sin - unbelief...disobedience is the fruit of unbelief...
again in your understanding of Hebrews 10 - the willful sinning is done constantly by everyone that lives according to the flesh......but I believe it's talking about the willful sin of not believing in Jesus as the Jews Messiah/Christ..
...anyway I am not trying to change your mind....you are allowed to believe what ever you want...
So, an alcoholic that has not been taught who they are in Christ..cannot stop drinking..he drinks until he dies..in your gospel he goes to hell for his "willful" sinning...just a religious person telling the alcoholic....just stop drinking....is not the gospel....it's legalism at it's finest!
The book of Hebrews was telling the Jews about their forefather's disobedience and they died in the wilderness because of it. That was their sin - unbelief...disobedience is the fruit of unbelief...
again in your understanding of Hebrews 10 - the willful sinning is done constantly by everyone that lives according to the flesh......but I believe it's talking about the willful sin of not believing in Jesus as the Jews Messiah/Christ..
...anyway I am not trying to change your mind....you are allowed to believe what ever you want...
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Kenneth how many times and how many people have told you that you cling to law?
We are not saved by our filthy works. I was bought with Christ' blood. If there is something not worked out in my heart yet and I die;I will go to be with Christ. By your standards; I must obey every law or I am not going to the kingdom. That is an awful way to think. It is a yoke of bondage . I hope you pray for the Lord to help you with this. God is NOT impressed with us thinking we can do anything to save ourselves. He provided the atonement. We rest in HIM and he brings us along as a Father brings his obedient child along into understanding.
We are not saved by our filthy works. I was bought with Christ' blood. If there is something not worked out in my heart yet and I die;I will go to be with Christ. By your standards; I must obey every law or I am not going to the kingdom. That is an awful way to think. It is a yoke of bondage . I hope you pray for the Lord to help you with this. God is NOT impressed with us thinking we can do anything to save ourselves. He provided the atonement. We rest in HIM and he brings us along as a Father brings his obedient child along into understanding.
K
That is what saying one is in tune with darkness means, and another made such a statement.
A person can not be serving darkness and be serving the Light at the same time, we can only serve one master......
One leads to eternal life (Light) and the other leads to eternal death (darkness).
Yet some say that still having the thoughts is being in the darkness, which is wrong to say that as it does not align with scripture. If it did then none of us are saved because we all have bad or sinful thoughts at times.
They act as if they never have those thoughts or make excuses for them.........
Also you know that Matthew 15:18 is showing action as well, not just thought !!!
K
So you are going to now go that faulty route of throwing around false allegations again ???
I have never defended or said the Mosaic laws had to be kept and followed for salvation !!!
So it doesn't matter if 3, 5, or even 10 people have made that claim, it still does not make it true..............
Nobody again is saying works save, they are proof of one who is saved and one who is not !!!
Jesus made this distinction when He talked about fruit, as He said a good tree can not bear bad fruit, and we are the branches and thus we do not produce fruit of our own. It is His doing through us !!!
Therefore if a person is still continuing to live a life of deliberately sinning that shows that Christ is not abiding in them !!!
I never once said every Mosaic law had to be obey, that is a complete lie and accusation !!!
There is a difference between the written ordinances of the Mosaic law and God's moral law or the perfect law of liberty in Christ !!!
How can you consider and claim yourself obedient if you are disobedient to Jesus teachings ???
We rest in Him because His ways (teachings) are easier then trying to keep written ordinances, by walking in LOVE as He commanded will establish and thus fulfill the law !!!
Until you learn the difference between the physical and the spiritual this will go nowhere with you !!!
I have never defended or said the Mosaic laws had to be kept and followed for salvation !!!
So it doesn't matter if 3, 5, or even 10 people have made that claim, it still does not make it true..............
Nobody again is saying works save, they are proof of one who is saved and one who is not !!!
Jesus made this distinction when He talked about fruit, as He said a good tree can not bear bad fruit, and we are the branches and thus we do not produce fruit of our own. It is His doing through us !!!
Therefore if a person is still continuing to live a life of deliberately sinning that shows that Christ is not abiding in them !!!
I never once said every Mosaic law had to be obey, that is a complete lie and accusation !!!
There is a difference between the written ordinances of the Mosaic law and God's moral law or the perfect law of liberty in Christ !!!
How can you consider and claim yourself obedient if you are disobedient to Jesus teachings ???
We rest in Him because His ways (teachings) are easier then trying to keep written ordinances, by walking in LOVE as He commanded will establish and thus fulfill the law !!!
Until you learn the difference between the physical and the spiritual this will go nowhere with you !!!
It may be one of her specialties, as you have just seen and witnessed her with me and just casually shrugging it off, la dee dah, no big deal for her to slander others, she acts like it is okay for her to do.
Also, she claims we are not saved by what we do but then goes around insistently and repeatedly telling people how she thinks they ought to behave. Such a hypocrite!
Also, she claims we are not saved by what we do but then goes around insistently and repeatedly telling people how she thinks they ought to behave. Such a hypocrite!
K
Yes..all Christians can walk according to the flesh...and they will reap according to the flesh too if God's mercy doesn't intervene. Why He does in some cases and not in others is a complete mystery to me. I suppose He will tell us when we see Him.
So, an alcoholic that has not been taught who they are in Christ..cannot stop drinking..he drinks until he dies..in your gospel he goes to hell for his "willful" sinning...just a religious person telling the alcoholic....just stop drinking....is not the gospel....it's legalism at it's finest!
The book of Hebrews was telling the Jews about their forefather's disobedience and they died in the wilderness because of it. That was their sin - unbelief...disobedience is the fruit of unbelief...
again in your understanding of Hebrews 10 - the willful sinning is done constantly by everyone that lives according to the flesh......but I believe it's talking about the willful sin of not believing in Jesus as the Jews Messiah/Christ..
...anyway I am not trying to change your mind....you are allowed to believe what ever you want...
So, an alcoholic that has not been taught who they are in Christ..cannot stop drinking..he drinks until he dies..in your gospel he goes to hell for his "willful" sinning...just a religious person telling the alcoholic....just stop drinking....is not the gospel....it's legalism at it's finest!
The book of Hebrews was telling the Jews about their forefather's disobedience and they died in the wilderness because of it. That was their sin - unbelief...disobedience is the fruit of unbelief...
again in your understanding of Hebrews 10 - the willful sinning is done constantly by everyone that lives according to the flesh......but I believe it's talking about the willful sin of not believing in Jesus as the Jews Messiah/Christ..
...anyway I am not trying to change your mind....you are allowed to believe what ever you want...
There is no mystery why He intervene's at times and not others.
He does it for a learning experience in each situation so that we can give our testimonies to others who are going through the same situation to help them get through them and stay firm in Christ.
God knows some need to fall hard before they learn, and others He knows do not have to fall so far before they learn.
Again it is not my doctrine or gospel Grace777x70, the bible is very clear that "no drunkard" will inherit eternal life, but I guess you deny the bible says that !!!
You still fail to admit that Hebrews is comparing those who were disobedient in the past to those who are disobedient now, as Paul and Jude did as well. They used OT examples to warn people in the New Covenant not to follow the same route of returning to disobedient paths like they did.
Hebrews 10:26 includes all sinful behavior and I know you think just unbelief, but willful sinful behavior is unbelief !!!
K
That is one of the issues I brought up about OSAS and Hyper-grace doctrines just the other day.
They walk around saying we are not saved by what we do and the law doesn't apply to us as we are not under the law, but then when you turn around you see the same people condemning, and making accusations on others that they are not in Christ because of what they are doing.
Take the Catholic threads for instance as I see them all the time condemning Catholic's in that thread for breaking the 10 Commandments. Something they constantly argue on saying doesn't apply to us !!!
They can't have it both ways, either it applies or doesn't.........................
I havent said anything like that. I only debated identity.
What I was addressing you on this time was on the forgiveness thing.
It is our own free will to say "I forgive them Lord". But do we have it about ourselves to work it out in our hearts to forgive the person? No! God works it out if we continue on in that process of saying we forgive them Lord. Our hearts arent machines Kenneth. It takes time to show fruit of forgiveness and that is the Lords job to bring us to that place. He has to heal our hearts. We can also say "I want to forgive him Lord. Please help me and heal my heart so that I really mean it" All we need to do is tell HIM that we forgive or desire to forgive knowing full well that we dont feel it yet but with the faith to believe that Christ will bring us to it.
Matthew 15:18 is speaking of what comes from our mouhs btw. He is speaking on INNER PURITY.
What I was addressing you on this time was on the forgiveness thing.
It is our own free will to say "I forgive them Lord". But do we have it about ourselves to work it out in our hearts to forgive the person? No! God works it out if we continue on in that process of saying we forgive them Lord. Our hearts arent machines Kenneth. It takes time to show fruit of forgiveness and that is the Lords job to bring us to that place. He has to heal our hearts. We can also say "I want to forgive him Lord. Please help me and heal my heart so that I really mean it" All we need to do is tell HIM that we forgive or desire to forgive knowing full well that we dont feel it yet but with the faith to believe that Christ will bring us to it.
Matthew 15:18 is speaking of what comes from our mouhs btw. He is speaking on INNER PURITY.
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