Homosexuality! Love the person not the sin!

[Yeraza_Bats]

Jesus died for all sin and my belief in His deliverance and sacrifice allows me to stand blameless before God! If you feel you have a right to judge then be prepared to be judged yourself. If all your closet sins you never told anyone were exposed and you were standing next to the person who struggled with homosexuality and both of you have asked for forgiveness and believe in God, He would welcome both of you with open arms! That's all that matters.

Well I am someone whos open about my struggles on this site, and I am welcome here. I dont think this site is in need of this lesson.

And if someone continues to live in that sin, and we stand our ground on whats right and whats wrong, do you really believe that God will place them above you for being judgmental?

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I'm not sure why you feel like your that important that the church should react? What are you wanting them to do? The church is not a mafia or gang that will avenge a fallen member. We are meant to love and do the opposite of what are sinful nature would want. It's selfish to think we can pursue vengeance. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.

To the right of "reply" is "reply with quote".

So a loving church ignores what happens?

 

[1234Canuck]

So a loving church ignores what happens?

A loving Church does not ignore anything it responds with love not vengeance. The church should forgive not judge. That's God's job not ours!

 

[1234Canuck]

How can you make that judgement if it's wrong to judge?

Matt 7:1 quoting scripture. You said that there are situations where we have a right to judge. I would rather not stand before God and face His judgement over those situations. We have no right to think we are better then anyone else. Jesus died for all!

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

1234Canuck: If you feel you have a right to judge then be prepared to be judged yourself.

Test_F_i_2_Luv: You apparently think I'm wrong about something or you wouldn't be warning me about being judged. You're making a judgement. How can you make that judgement if it's wrong to judge?

I think you're aware of Matt 7:1-7. You've almost quoted it. Look up John 7:24 and explain it. Harmonize it with Matt 7:1-7. Does the Bible contradict there?

 

[wwjd_kilden]

To the person who disagreed that all sin is equal:

Doesn't all sin send us to hell (if we don't have the blood of Jesus?)
Just because our law makes it different, it doesn't mean God does

 

[Kosie]

Like ANY sin we have to hate the sin, and we may not hate the person, but we should not sit in their circles. We should not have fellowship with them or be friends with them. We should definitely not agree or have pleasure in what they do. If we do that we will join them on the journey into the pit. Look what the Bible says.... According to the Bible people doing these things are worthy of death, and so are the ones that agrees with them.

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Being filled with all unrighteousness
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

OK we see these people are filled with UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.... And God says.... 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

[RobbyEarl]

1 John 5

[FONT=&quot]15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.[/FONT]

 

[prodigal]

Like ANY sin we have to hate the sin, and we may not hate the person, but we should not sit in their circles. We should not have fellowship with them or be friends with them. We should definitely not agree or have pleasure in what they do. If we do that we will join them on the journey into the pit. Look what the Bible says.... According to the Bible people doing these things are worthy of death, and so are the ones that agrees with them.

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Being filled with all unrighteousness
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

OK we see these people are filled with UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.... And God says.... 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

mark 2
15 Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and[b] Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?”
17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call therighteous, but sinners, to repentance.”[c]

 

[bikerchaz]

All sin is equal and we all fall short of the glory of God! We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. We should be the ones helping them walk through the struggle. We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love!

Hi 1234Canuck, you are right, yes God is Love Jesus is that love incarnate toward us. You do start to veer off course when you talk about church though,

people including the church

I presume you mean Christians when you say people, and

should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church

I presume means the Christians there.

Ok I understand why you say this, I really do. The building is not the church. I am not being pinickety when I say this, the True Church is not in any building. The true Church is where two or more of Jesus brothers (sisters included, just a generic term) meet together, because Jesus is there in the middle with them.

A building takes away from Jesus, people feel an attachment to buildings, they (the building) become a work of salvation. They need upkeep and take our wealth into an inanimate object, when if we need to spend money on anything we should buy a meal for someone who is hungry or a pair of socks for someone who is cold.

Jesus is the head of the Church and Paul has given us the profile of how we should be as Church when we meet. No one is in control except for Jesus, if this is the case then, even a child molester could join the group that is being Church and be changed and renewed into a vessel fit for the Kingdom, without any one saying anything and condemning them.

Any one with what could be seen as any problem, from alcoholism through sexual immorality to anything, will meet with Jesus face to face and never be the same again. There should never be condemnation from any one who calls themselves a Christian. Yes we do understand what God thinks on a human level because it is written down, These are Gods words and for God to make impact on us so we know there is something wrong. Then we come to God in truth and complete openness of heart, warts and all. WOW! watch Jesus work in those conditions.

Pray Brother, Pray and ask God to perform His church in your life, ask Jesus to lead you to His true Church, you wont find condemnation from anyone except for the Holy Spirit, and He is the only one that matters because that leads to life.

 

[Kosie]

mark 2
15 Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and[b] Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?”
17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call therighteous, but sinners, to repentance.”[c]

Prodigal what would you do if a sodomite harass your underage son? Because you let him "sleep over". And the sodomite is not underage, he is five years the senior? Well I am that son! And the homo is now family (his brother is married to my sister). But then how true is the thing what you sow you will reap. Now one of their sons also moves that way. So sir, if you want to play the game I show you a verse and you show me another, think before you associate Jesus with sinners like us.

Any holy man can sit any where he likes and with whoever He wants. At that stage HE (JESUS) was the only Holy man on earth. So no matter with whom Jesus sat, He was the only one with the Holy Spirit in Him. Even the last night of His life outside Jerusalem, He proofed to His disciples that they know not of what spirit they are.

It is the small sinners like us that cannot make a difference to the situation. Jesus made a difference because He is Jesus. Sinners make no difference to sinners only holy people does. And they are sent to sinners to HARVEST! BIG difference, and if the sinners do not want to receive the gospel..... TAKE YOUR PEACE and shake the DUST OFF! and LEAVE!

One of my favorites: Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.


​May I be such a man please LORD! Amen!

 

[notuptome]

Repent or perish. I struggle like every Christian with temptation. Repentance provides a basis to resist temptation and cease from sinning that sin.

Salvation does not make you a better you. Salvation makes you a new you in Christ Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[lastofall]

To love them is to warn them, not to comfort them. The way you speak of it is to support sin. Repenting is a simple process which Christ made exceedingly plain and clear saying "Go and sin no more." If we are a thief, then we must stop stealing; if we lie, then we must stop lying; and so it is with every sin under the sun. If we truly do believe then we will repent; there is no such thing as that we supposedly believe, yet we can ease out of our darling sin slowly and gradually: if we truly believe we will repent, and will not make excuse for not repenting, that is what unbelievers do.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

To the person who disagreed that all sin is equal:

Doesn't all sin send us to hell (if we don't have the blood of Jesus?)
Just because our law makes it different, it doesn't mean God does

To the people who believe all sins are equally bad, reply to the verses I have posted in this thread.

Keep in mind I agree that the wages of sin is death, that all fall short of the glory of God, and that sin separates us from God.

Murdering, however, is worse than punching a person in the face. One example.

 

[GuidanceGodsWay]

Jesus died for all sin! It shouldn't be an argument of whether it's equal. Worldly consequences have no factor in what Jesus died for! Jesus died for so we can spend eternity with him! "Those who are without sin, throw the first stone" Jesus

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ultimately Agreed, However there are those that are still in need of milk, it is for their benefit. :O)[/FONT]

Hebrews 5
​

12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

What James 2:10 tells me is that sin offends the entirety of God. It says nothing about the degree or magnitude of the offense/sin.

It's kinda like when we are offended. We don't go and say "You hurt my feeling". We say "You hurt my feelings!" We are entirely offended.

However, not all offenses hurt our feelings equally. Regardless of how bad we are offended/hurt, though, it's always our feelings, not a single feeling that gets offended/hurt.

James 2:10 is the most common argument against sin gradation.

If James 2:10 means all sins are equal, then we have to harmonize that with other Scripture.

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5

If all sins are equal, then how can one have a speck and another have a plank? All should be the same size.


And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing—the utterly detestable things the Israelites are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see things that are even more detestable.” Ezekiel 8:6

Ezekiel isn't consistent with the suggestion that sins are all equally bad.

Just a couple examples.

Isaiah 55​

8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

GODS WAY/THOUGHTS

1 John 3​

15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Matthew 5​

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

James 2
​

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

MANS WAY/THOUGHTS
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5"

 

[Mec99]

Actually its not our job to point out to those who are non believers their sins. If a person is Gay and does not know God, we are not to condemn then for being Gay. If a person is a Christian and is Gay, then we are to help them overcome this sin. We are not to condemn then for this sin.

 

[p_rehbein]

How can you make that judgement if it's wrong to judge?

Matt 7:1 quoting scripture. You said that there are situations where we have a right to judge. I would rather not stand before God and face His judgement over those situations. We have no right to think we are better then anyone else. Jesus died for all!

uh, er, so when Jesus Himself told us to judge others based on their fruits/works so that we would know they were of God, we should ignore Him and disobey His teachings? When the Apostle taught us to test the spirits to see if they were of God, we should also ignore them and disobey their teachings?

Simply because you do not know how to discern/interpret Scripture? Maybe you should spend some quality time reading Scripture and actually discerning the meaning of the Scriptures?

Go ahead and stand before God and tell Him why you disobeyed His Word.........me? Yeah, I'm gonna listen to Him, not you.

 

[Absolem]

I remember in high school I had a drug problem. One night I couldn't scrap together enough money for drugs so I called a gay drug addict who was attracted to me for drugs. He got me high so I let him perform sexual acts on me. Needless to say I was quite ashamed. Thank God for his mercy and grace

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Select comments by GuidanceGodsWay:

...there are those that are still in need of milk, it is for their benefit. :O)

MANS WAY/THOUGHTS
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5"


Test_F_i_2_luv: I tend to like meat.

The discourse that includes Matt 7 goes back to Matt 5. At the beginning of Matt 5, we find that a crowd had gathered before Jesus. So, he decided to go up a mountainside and His disciples followed. There, he taught his disciples. What we have in Matt 5, 6, and 7 is almost completely Jesus's words. In Bibles with red letters, there is a LOT of red in those chapters.

What you're referring to as "man's ways/thoughts", then, in Matt 7, is Jesus' speaking to his disciples. What is he speaking to his disciples about? Hypocrisy. How do we know that? Matt 7:5. Jesus says to not be a hypocrite. What hypocrisy?

Pointing out other people's smaller sin(speck) when they have their own bigger sin(plank) to deal with.

In choosing Heb 5 to counter my argument that sins are not all equally bad, give an explanation of Matt 7:1-5...give me some meat. Heb 5:14.

You chose Isaiah 55 to counter my argument that sins are not all equally bad. Scripture is our way in understanding God's ways. That's how you learn of God's way. That's how I learn of God's ways. Explain the speck/plank of Matt 7:1-5 and the utterly detestable/even more detestable of Ezekiel 8. Heb 5:14.

In choosing 1 John 3 to counter my argument that sins are not all equally bad, the bar on a righteousness is RAISED in the New Testament. Adultery was punishable by death in the O.T.(Lev 20:10). In the N.T., we're reminded to not even THINK about a sex with another woman. I hope you're a little smarter than to suggest that committing adultery and thinking about adultery are equally bad?!

In choosing James 2 to counter my argument, I already addressed it. It's conveniently included below, again, so you can read or re-read it.

What James 2:10 tells me is that sin offends the entirety of God. It says nothing about the degree or magnitude of the offense/sin.

It's kinda like when we are offended. We don't go and say "You hurt my feeling". We say "You hurt my feelings!" We are entirely offended.

However, not all offenses hurt our feelings equally. Regardless of how bad we are offended/hurt, though, it's always our feelings, not a single feeling that gets offended/hurt.

James 2:10 is the most common argument against sin gradation.

If James 2:10 means all sins are equal, then we have to harmonize that with other Scripture.

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5

If all sins are equal, then how can one have a speck and another have a plank? All should be the same size.


And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing—the utterly detestable things the Israelites are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see things that are even more detestable.” Ezekiel 8:6

Ezekiel isn't consistent with the suggestion that sins are all equally bad.

Just a couple examples.

 

[garee]

Its common sense that is being discriminated against by those who are trying to rid discrimination at any level .... things are picking up speed . It’s like the new one making it equal with the color of one’s skin, a good discrimination law that helps bring unity to the nations. It fits the Christian paradigm in respect to new born again creatures that we know no man after the flesh .

The idea that Bruce Jenner made the woman of the year according to a fashion magazine I would think would be enough to know something is going astray. I say keep it in the closet as the kind that can come out with prayer and fasting (offering the gospel)

It’s the one thing people don’t learn about history that the idea of no laws, no trespasses is being pushed by some.(anarchy)

But what they seem to missing is.... history repeats itself the moral condition of a nation before they fall is always the key of the fall and righteousness according to the law of God as that which can build the proper walls to keep out that advancement of making the law of God without effect. . Homosexuality is at the top or bottom of the list .