Homosexuality! Love the person not the sin!

[GuidanceGodsWay]

Select comments by GuidanceGodsWay:

...there are those that are still in need of milk, it is for their benefit. :O)

MANS WAY/THOUGHTS
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5"


Test_F_i_2_luv: I tend to like meat.

The discourse that includes Matt 7 goes back to Matt 5. At the beginning of Matt 5, we find that a crowd had gathered before Jesus. So, he decided to go up a mountainside and His disciples followed. There, he taught his disciples. What we have in Matt 5, 6, and 7 is almost completely Jesus's words. In Bibles with red letters, there is a LOT of red in those chapters.

What you're referring to as "man's ways/thoughts", then, in Matt 7, is Jesus' speaking to his disciples. What is he speaking to his disciples about? Hypocrisy. How do we know that? Matt 7:5. Jesus says to not be a hypocrite. What hypocrisy?

Pointing out other people's smaller sin(speck) when they have their own bigger sin(plank) to deal with.

In choosing Heb 5 to counter my argument that sins are not all equally bad, give an explanation of Matt 7:1-5...give me some meat. Heb 5:14.

You chose Isaiah 55 to counter my argument that sins are not all equally bad. Scripture is our way in understanding God's ways. That's how you learn of God's way. That's how I learn of God's ways. Explain the speck/plank of Matt 7:1-5 and the utterly detestable/even more detestable of Ezekiel 8. Heb 5:14.

In choosing 1 John 3 to counter my argument that sins are not all equally bad, the bar on a righteousness is RAISED in the New Testament. Adultery was punishable by death in the O.T.(Lev 20:10). In the N.T., we're reminded to not even THINK about a sex with another woman. I hope you're a little smarter than to suggest that committing adultery and thinking about adultery are equally bad?!

In choosing James 2 to counter my argument, I already addressed it. It's conveniently included below, again, so you can read or re-read it.

MANS WAY/THOUGHTS
“Do not judge (krinó NOT kolasis: correction), or you too will be judged. For in the same way you (man NOT God) judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you (man NOT God) use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite 5273 hypokritḗs (an actor/pretender). definitely speaking to one NOT thinking as God thinks, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5"

Is this a little story/parable? Can one have a literal PLANK in ones eyes?

Luke 8
​

10And he said, Unto you (DISCIPLE mathétés: a learner, disciple, pupil) it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing theymight (not in original) not see, and hearing theymight(not in original) not understand.
The meat is most certainly there. Maybe a little hunting (God given insight) is required?

Ezekiel 8
​

A vision, and at "every turn" was shown MORE abominations, measure of the abominations is not present.
#8799
Stem - Qal (See H8851) Mood - Imperfect (See H8811)The perfect expresses the "fact", the imperfect adds
colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its completion.

--------
Do not BOTH land you in the same spiritual position with God? or are you only looking at MANS MEASUREMENT?
--------

James 2
​

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Do you not understand that it does not matter to GOD what exactly you do, it is ALL sin that will be dealt with?

Colossians 1 ​

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.), measurement does not matter with God because...

1 Corinthians 6 ​

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

"That James 2:10 tells me is that sin offends the entirety of God. It says nothing about the degree or magnitude of the offense/sin."

Do you read into verses your own opinion all the time? Is it not plain and simple to you?

When God got me past all this "measurement" and "carnal" thought and the process of the laws purpose...

Galatians 3 ​

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster)..

A new beautiful picture came into view and I now can see the GOOD NEWS that “Behold, I make ALL things new.”

 

[lettucepray]

Tough sometimes though, there's a LOT of Gay Pride.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Actually its not our job to point out to those who are non believers their sins. If a person is Gay and does not know God, we are not to condemn then for being Gay. If a person is a Christian and is Gay, then we are to help them overcome this sin. We are not to condemn then for this sin.

What? How do people not come to God if you do not tell them? And if you help bring them to God, how do you do so while not warning them about their sins?

 

[eph610]

I would assume that if your getting punched in church because of your faith that the church should celebrate not retaliate. I didn't really suggest what caused someone to punch me.

Let's say someone disagrees with my politics and decides to punch me. The church probably should make a fuss.

If someone decides to shoot me over my political beliefs, the church ought to be outraged.

Getting punched isn't as serious and bad as being shot. The reaction by the church shouldn't be equal in both cases.

I am not judging. If you did drugs after you went to church that doesn't me I won't love you as a person. I definitely won't support your hobbies. That's not judgement that's love. If you come to church I would think you want to follow God's principles. If that's the case then as a part of your family in Christ I would support you as you try to stop the drug habit. There's no judgement just love! In my first post in this thread I noted that we can judge, but there are limitations. If I tell a person that he is eternally condemned, I'm judging in a way I can't. If I judge that a person is doing something wrong - and it's declared wrong in Scripture - I can judge. We might also call the latter discernment.

There is a Funny thing about Jesus, SIN never shocked him and he never reacted over it like the Pharisees did.
He never ranked SIN nor did he react differently to different sins, he simply came to seek and to save the lost.

He only was at odds and got emotional with the religious bigtos of his day, which for the record are still around and still spreading FUD.

Most non believers in the world don't have a clue when you tell them they are in SIN. SIN is a unique Christianese term and the fact is the world has changed radically. 80 years ago most people in the USA had some knowledge of Jesus Christ, God , Church and the Bible. That is no longer the case.

Jesus did not come to condemn the world bro, it was already condemned, forcing a theocratic world view, based on communicated bible knowledge on people and "judging" them is not sharing the Gospel and it makes for a very terrible witness.

The Holy Spirit was sent to convince the world of their sin and it is the goodness of God that leads man to repent and by lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for,And by the fear of the Lord one keeps away from evil.

Interesting that mercy comes before understanding the fear of the Lord.

 

[eph610]

What? How do people not come to God if you do not tell them? And if you help bring them to God, how do you do so while not warning them about their sins?

Our job is to show people to Jesus and let the Holy Spirit bring them to their knees!

 

[KenAllan]

Why are we centering in on the Homosexual person? Their sins are no greater than our sins. Does anybody know what is the one sin everybody will be judged on?

The ONLY sin we will be Judged by is the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ as our Savior!

So why are we wasting our time over the Homosexuals? We need to focus on those who have rejected Jesus, like the Cults who have other Gods.

Yes we are to bring the Gospel to our friends caught up in Homosexuality, but their sin is no greater than anyone's sins who do not follow Jesus. Let not us become so narrow minded to only focus on the Gay people only.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

There is a Funny thing about Jesus, SIN never shocked him and he never reacted over it like the Pharisees did.
He never ranked SIN nor did he react differently to different sins, he simply came to seek and to save the lost.

He only was at odds and got emotional with the religious bigtos of his day, which for the record are still around and still spreading FUD.

Most non believers in the world don't have a clue when you tell them they are in SIN. SIN is a unique Christianese term and the fact is the world has changed radically. 80 years ago most people in the USA had some knowledge of Jesus Christ, God , Church and the Bible. That is no longer the case.

Jesus did not come to condemn the world bro, it was already condemned, forcing a theocratic world view, based on communicated bible knowledge on people and "judging" them is not sharing the Gospel and it makes for a very terrible witness.

The Holy Spirit was sent to convince the world of their sin and it is the goodness of God that leads man to repent and by lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for,And by the fear of the Lord one keeps away from evil.

Interesting that mercy comes before understanding the fear of the Lord.

He never ranked SIN nor did he react differently to different sins, he simply came to seek and to save the lost. Matt 7 - He talks about specks and planks. John 19 - Jesus talks about a "greater sin" being committed. Matt 21 - Jesus knocks over tables in temple courts.

I'd agree that Jesus was usually peaceful and calm. However, He did realize that sins aren't all equally bad and he did react with righteous anger.

 

[1234Canuck]

He did realize that sins aren't all equally bad and he did react with righteous anger.

This statement you make seems as though you think that Christians are able to elevate themselves if we haven't committed certain sins. I think that by fighting the point of whether one sin is worse then the others insults the sacrifice that Jesus made. Did Jesus not call the Pharisees white washed tombs because of their legalistic faith? One that made them think they are privileged.

 

[eph610]

He never ranked SIN nor did he react differently to different sins, he simply came to seek and to save the lost. Matt 7 - He talks about specks and planks. John 19 - Jesus talks about a "greater sin" being committed. Matt 21 - Jesus knocks over tables in temple courts.

I'd agree that Jesus was usually peaceful and calm. However, He did realize that sins aren't all equally bad and he did react with righteous anger.

He never displayed righteous anger with the sinner, he only reacted with righteous anger with the self righteous Church of his day. The temple was not filled with sinners bro, it was filled with religious people

 

[GuidanceGodsWay]

He never ranked SIN nor did he react differently to different sins, he simply came to seek and to save the lost. Matt 7 - He talks about specks and planks. John 19 - Jesus talks about a "greater sin" being committed. Matt 21 - Jesus knocks over tables in temple courts.

I'd agree that Jesus was usually peaceful and calm. However, He did realize that sins aren't all equally bad and he did react with righteous anger.

I'm curious, Lets agree for the moment that there are degrees of sin in Gods eyes. Now what does He do with this?
- You hated your brother
- I murdered my brother
Assume we are in the exact same spiritual position (except the above mentioned).
What difference does this make, outside of "worldly" consequences?

 

[RobbyEarl]

Man, how much more do we need the Cross. Often neglected and saying it just the start, how much more do we need the Cross. With out the Cross we are nothing but blind guides. Oh how I thank you Father for the Cross, Oh how I place my faith in the work of The Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you Jesus that you said "never the less let your will be done" Praise to His name forever and ever. King of Kings and Lord of Lords I place my face in the dirt before you. Amen.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

MANS WAY/THOUGHTS
“Do not judge (krinó NOT kolasis: correction), or you too will be judged. For in the same way you (man NOT God) judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you (man NOT God) use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite 5273 hypokritḗs (an actor/pretender). definitely speaking to one NOT thinking as God thinks, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5"

Is this a little story/parable? Can one have a literal PLANK in ones eyes?

Is this a little story/parable? Can one have a literal PLANK in ones eyes? This is a little story where Jesus tells his disciples to not be a hypocrite. If I have a big(plank) sin in my life, I shouldn't be busy pointing out another person's little(speck) sin. That's hypocritical and I shouldn't be a hypocrite.

Can one have a literal PLANK in ones eyes? As we know from reading Scripture, Jesus used common day things/activities/products to illustrate His points. I find the plank illustration fascinating. A plank suggests sin so big that a person is blinded to spiritual light. A hypocrite, then, is practically blinded to spiritual truth and is busy pointing out other peoples' more minor issues while s/he(the hypocrite) has bigger problems.

Is this a little story/parable? Matt 7:1-5 isn't generally viewed as a parable. Looking at my Strong's Concordance , which has a list of Jesus' parables, it is not listed. Looking in my Holman's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, it is mentioned.

Can one have a literal PLANK in ones eyes? If we take the Bible literal and miss the metaphorical illustrations, we're going to be in trouble. In John 15:5 we learn that Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. Can He literally be a vine? Can we literally be branches? No. Yet, He is our source of food and strength. Through Him, we produce fruit...which is a metaphor for good deeds. We don't literally produce fruit.

Luke 8
​

10And he said, Unto you (DISCIPLE mathétés: a learner, disciple, pupil) it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing theymight (not in original) not see, and hearing theymight(not in original) not understand.
The meat is most certainly there. Maybe a little hunting (God given insight) is required?

The meat is most certainly there. I know. Interestingly, it is rejected. Speck/plank...they don't exist. Wicked abominations/great abominations...they don't exist. What they clearly say, they don't say.

Maybe a little hunting (God given insight) is required? A little explaining of the verses I've mentioned is required. Countering with scripture verses discussing wisdom and understanding don't explain the verses I mentioned. Countering with scripture verses telling me that people sin doesn't explain those verses.

Ezekiel 8
​

A vision, and at "every turn" was shown MORE abominations, measure of the abominations is not present.
#8799
Stem - Qal (See H8851) Mood - Imperfect (See H8811)The perfect expresses the "fact", the imperfect adds
colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its completion.

--------
Do not BOTH land you in the same spiritual position with God? or are you only looking at MANS MEASUREMENT?
--------

I used Scripture. A human mind rejects speck/plank. A human mind rejects abominations/great abominations.

What are you trying to assert with the Strong's numbers?

James 2
​

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Do you not understand that it does not matter to GOD what exactly you do, it is ALL sin that will be dealt with?

Post #34. Did you read it?

Colossians 1
​

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.), measurement does not matter with God because...

1 Corinthians 6 ​

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Post #34. Did you read it?

"That James 2:10 tells me is that sin offends the entirety of God. It says nothing about the degree or magnitude of the offense/sin."

Do you read into verses your own opinion all the time? Is it not plain and simple to you?

Do you read into verses your own opinion all the time? Is it not plain and simple to you? Says the ones who rejects a speck/plank and great abominations/still greater abominations just as they are. Those verses are pretty plain and straightforward.

When God got me past all this "measurement" and "carnal" thought and the process of the laws purpose...

Galatians 3 ​

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster)..

A new beautiful picture came into view and I now can see the GOOD NEWS that “Behold, I make ALL things new.”

Murder or a hateful thought, we can be made new.

Rob a bank or steal a pen, we can be made new.

Cheat on our spouse or lie to our spouse, we can be made new.

Big or small, sin can be forgiven. We can be made new.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

He never ranked SIN nor did he react differently to different sins, he simply came to seek and to save the lost. Matt 7 - He talks about specks and planks. John 19 - Jesus talks about a "greater sin" being committed. Matt 21 - Jesus knocks over tables in temple courts.

I'd agree that Jesus was usually peaceful and calm. However, He did realize that sins aren't all equally bad and he did react with righteous anger.

He did realize that sins aren't all equally bad and he did react with righteous anger.

This statement you make seems as though you think that Christians are able to elevate themselves if we haven't committed certain sins. I think that by fighting the point of whether one sin is worse then the others insults the sacrifice that Jesus made. Did Jesus not call the Pharisees white washed tombs because of their legalistic faith? One that made them think they are privileged.

Instead of hitting "reply", use the quote feature. It's right next to "reply" on the screen.

It looks like you're arguing with yourself unless people know you've copied/pasted from my post.

Notice in many posts how other people's posts are quoted?

This statement you make seems as though you think that Christians are able to elevate themselves I'm asserting that Jesus didn't react the same each time something bad happened.

Let's say all sins are equally bad for a moment. If you get more angry about one sin more than another, is that a sin? Equality of sin should draw equal anger about all sin. Can we be Christ-like if we get more angry about one sin more than another?

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I'm curious, Lets agree for the moment that there are degrees of sin in Gods eyes. Now what does He do with this?
- You hated your brother
- I murdered my brother
Assume we are in the exact same spiritual position (except the above mentioned).
What difference does this make, outside of "worldly" consequences?

This is murdering in one's heart

vs

Murdering in one's heart plus murdering the physical body.

 

[GuidanceGodsWay]

I'm curious, Lets agree for the moment that there are degrees of sin in Gods eyes. Now what does He do with this?
- You hated your brother
- I murdered my brother
Assume we are in the exact same spiritual position (except the above mentioned).
What difference does this make, outside of "worldly" consequences?

This is murdering in one's heart

vs

Murdering in one's heart plus murdering the physical body.

I said OUTSIDE of "worldly" consequences. The physical body is "worldly".

What difference does it make with God? Spiritually?

 

[RobbyEarl]

When Jesus died on the Cross did he do it for Homo's?

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I said OUTSIDE of "worldly" consequences. The physical body is "worldly".

What difference does it make with God? Spiritually?

If one is not justified, the ones with the greater sins will be punished more severely.

Matt 10:15, Matt 11:23-24, Matt 23:14, Luke 12:47-48.

 

[eph610]

Bro,
This was part o the sermon on the mount and he was telling the people to not be as the religious people[Pharisees/Scribes and Sadducee] pointing out the small sins of the common people when they have the sin of self righteousness blinding them.

This parable has zero do to with large and small SIN.

 

[eph610]

Instead of hitting "reply", use the quote feature. It's right next to "reply" on the screen.

It looks like you're arguing with yourself unless people know you've copied/pasted from my post.

Notice in many posts how other people's posts are quoted?

This statement you make seems as though you think that Christians are able to elevate themselves I'm asserting that Jesus didn't react the same each time something bad happened.

Let's say all sins are equally bad for a moment. If you get more angry about one sin more than another, is that a sin? Equality of sin should draw equal anger about all sin. Can we be Christ-like if we get more angry about one sin more than another?

The greatest SIN that cannot be forgiven is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit

The only other SIN that sends peeps t hell is unbelief in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

A homosexual that dies in his/her SIN of homosexuality is not separated from God because of his/her sexual sin, he/she is separated from God for unbelief in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross and that he rose again.

The Bible shows you this very clearly.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Bro,
This was part o the sermon on the mount and he was telling the people to not be as the religious people[Pharisees/Scribes and Sadducee] pointing out the small sins of the common people when they have the sin of self righteousness blinding them.

This parable has zero do to with large and small SIN.

How come people can hit the reply but can't see the "reply with quote" directly to the right of it?

It comes in real helpful to figure out who you are arguing/conversing/debating/discussing things with.

Post #52 is my overall response to your thoughts.

I'll just add that your comment "small sins of the common people....sin of self righteousness blinding them" sure reads like the latter had a bigger issue to deal with since it blinded them! Hence, the speck and plank mentioned in the text.