Horton Hears a Heretic
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I realize it's a bit lengthy, but there were five videos I was rebutting. If you want to you can watch 14 minutes a day and take three days. YouTube will set a bookmark for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f0tELuutj4w
I've watched part of it so far. You mentioned an article that Jimmy Swaggert wrote in 1982 called Hyper-Faith: New Gnosticism. I've been reading it and it is very interesting. I've noticed a similarity between Hyper-Grace and gnosticism, and we both have come to similar conclusions. I think hyper-grace is an outgrowth of the word of faith movement, which I think is what Swaggart was exposing. Not sure. Maybe you could provide some clarity on that. I don't remember anything about Swaggart except him crying on TV.
While I still don't support the WoF movement in principle, I have to say that you make compelling arguments in your videos. Even though I probably won't change my mind, I do feel that the any opposing views should be represented correctly and fairly.
I'm still not convinced that E. W. Kenyon wasn't influenced by the metaphysical cults and New Thought, but you make a strong case in saying that he most likely wasn't. And I like the fact that you state repeatedly that you don't agree with or adhere to all of the teachings of today's WoF movement. You line up more with what Kenneth Hagin taught. Speaking of which, you seem to make a good argument that he was a lot more orthodox in his beliefs and teachings than I had heard before.
Again, I'm not sold on WoF and I still don't want to associate with it, but I want to give you your props.
I'm still not convinced that E. W. Kenyon wasn't influenced by the metaphysical cults and New Thought, but you make a strong case in saying that he most likely wasn't. And I like the fact that you state repeatedly that you don't agree with or adhere to all of the teachings of today's WoF movement. You line up more with what Kenneth Hagin taught. Speaking of which, you seem to make a good argument that he was a lot more orthodox in his beliefs and teachings than I had heard before.
Again, I'm not sold on WoF and I still don't want to associate with it, but I want to give you your props.
Thanks NotmebutHim. I'm not out to convert anybody to WoF. I just don't want people to misjudge it based on what some misguided teacher or apologist says. Whatever you decide needs to be based in facts, not rhetoric.
As for E. W. Kenyon, I don't agree with everything he taught and neither did Kenneth Hagin for that matter, but if you'll read McIntyre's book on Kenyon it will really give you some insight into what he was all about. He was saved in a Holiness meeting in the late 19th century, and elements of the Holiness movement (Faith Cure and Higher Life) were the main influences on his theology.
As for the WoF movement itself, people use the terms "Word of Faith", "Prosperity Gospel", and "Name it and Claim it" interchangeably and link everybody together who seems to identify with it. For example, Benny Hinn is often called a prosperity preacher or linked to the WoF, but he renounced WoF theology in 1993 in a Charisma interview. Others who consider themselves WoF are teaching things that Kenneth Hagin never taught and that I never heard at his school, and in my opinion these people are making a total mess of his message. I have the advantage of having studied there before the McConnells and the Hanegraaffs and the Hortons emerged, and because of that I am able to see through the misinformation. You can see more of my work here.
God bless you as you walk in the light of His Word.
As for E. W. Kenyon, I don't agree with everything he taught and neither did Kenneth Hagin for that matter, but if you'll read McIntyre's book on Kenyon it will really give you some insight into what he was all about. He was saved in a Holiness meeting in the late 19th century, and elements of the Holiness movement (Faith Cure and Higher Life) were the main influences on his theology.
As for the WoF movement itself, people use the terms "Word of Faith", "Prosperity Gospel", and "Name it and Claim it" interchangeably and link everybody together who seems to identify with it. For example, Benny Hinn is often called a prosperity preacher or linked to the WoF, but he renounced WoF theology in 1993 in a Charisma interview. Others who consider themselves WoF are teaching things that Kenneth Hagin never taught and that I never heard at his school, and in my opinion these people are making a total mess of his message. I have the advantage of having studied there before the McConnells and the Hanegraaffs and the Hortons emerged, and because of that I am able to see through the misinformation. You can see more of my work here.
God bless you as you walk in the light of His Word.
I agree that there is so much mis-information out there about different people and what they taught. Sometimes the self-proclaimed heretic hunters just don't agree with what they are teaching and in a lot of cases they mis-represent what is actually being said. They "twist" what is being said to make it "appear" to be something entirely different.
My bible school in the late 70's had Hagin come and to this day I still listen from time to time his teachings on faith and how to be led by the Holy Spirit. The Lord Himself told him that this was his main assignment.
I also remember one time he said that the Lord told him he was full of darkness in his mind which was some of his Pentecostal beliefs, the Lord told him. His teachings on praying in the Spirit have been very helpful to me in my walk with the Lord.
I don't subscribe to some of the WoF teachings in some aspects but then again I don't agree with everything anyone says 100% of the time. No one person has it all.
It's good to get the right , clear truth of what some people are teaching so that people can decide for themselves with clarity what is really being said.
Sometimes we just need to agree to disagree too without the name-calling..like heretic, false teacher, satanic..etc....just because we don't agree on some things. We are to keep Jesus central and His finished work of salvation and we are all good.
My bible school in the late 70's had Hagin come and to this day I still listen from time to time his teachings on faith and how to be led by the Holy Spirit. The Lord Himself told him that this was his main assignment.
I also remember one time he said that the Lord told him he was full of darkness in his mind which was some of his Pentecostal beliefs, the Lord told him. His teachings on praying in the Spirit have been very helpful to me in my walk with the Lord.
I don't subscribe to some of the WoF teachings in some aspects but then again I don't agree with everything anyone says 100% of the time. No one person has it all.
It's good to get the right , clear truth of what some people are teaching so that people can decide for themselves with clarity what is really being said.
Sometimes we just need to agree to disagree too without the name-calling..like heretic, false teacher, satanic..etc....just because we don't agree on some things. We are to keep Jesus central and His finished work of salvation and we are all good.
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Let me get this straight. You want us to watch a 42 minute long video that critiques Horton's critique about a false belief because he didn't get it all right either? Why?
I do needlework. To me this is like finding my grandmother's first sampler she made as a kid, noticing she missed some spots, and yet feeling the need to take it out of the frame to fix her mistakes. It's hers! If I don't like the job she did, then I'm free to make my own. If I did "fix" Gram's mistakes, exactly who is interested in my work even after seeing the difference?
I liked the days when someone critiquing someone else's work would have to do that by putting in due diligence, taking the effort to edit the work done, then putting in the effort to get it accepted for publication.
At least that tells me someone took the time to think it's top-notch effort worthy of reviewing. A homemade video? I keep thinking of the first video I posted. It's a fine video of sand, pebbles, rocks and my husband's feet as he tries to figure out how the camera works while sitting on a rocky pier in Cape May, NJ. lol
I do needlework. To me this is like finding my grandmother's first sampler she made as a kid, noticing she missed some spots, and yet feeling the need to take it out of the frame to fix her mistakes. It's hers! If I don't like the job she did, then I'm free to make my own. If I did "fix" Gram's mistakes, exactly who is interested in my work even after seeing the difference?
I liked the days when someone critiquing someone else's work would have to do that by putting in due diligence, taking the effort to edit the work done, then putting in the effort to get it accepted for publication.
At least that tells me someone took the time to think it's top-notch effort worthy of reviewing. A homemade video? I keep thinking of the first video I posted. It's a fine video of sand, pebbles, rocks and my husband's feet as he tries to figure out how the camera works while sitting on a rocky pier in Cape May, NJ. lol