House of Cornelius and the law

Grace777x70 · May 29, 2016

John 1:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Truth is progressive in the scriptures. The old covenant was a shadow of the truth to come which is Jesus.

Which side do we want to be on? The law was given through Moses and that showed our need for a Savior...or the actual Savior Himself....notice that grace and truth is on Jesus' side in John 1:17.

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 29, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

To all those who think we are not to obey the Fathers commandments and instructions. Are you even reading the posts that clearly show you are in transgression and cherry picking in the new testament to fit your unbiblical and lawless way of interpreting the gospel ? There are tons of scriptural truths here from the new testament about keeping the law that you keep on ignoring like it does not even exist. Are we dealing with cognitive dissonance here ?

The father has spoken through Jesus. Let's obey Jesus, not Moses.

trofimus · May 29, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

No. You just cant realize that there is Old testament and New testament. You think there is only one testament.

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 29, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

Sir, you are simply cherry picking what you want the bible to say for you. You are ignoring scriptural truths to justify your unbiblical and lawless way of interpreting the gospel. Just because you use some scriptures to try to justify this does not do away with the plain truth of what the bible has to say about this subject. You are justifying and covering up your lawlessness and giving a blind eye to the Word! The bible is NOT contrary to itself and you cannot ignore the scriptural facts against your way of interpreting the gospel. This is simply a repetition of Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Moses commanded circumcision.

Paul said that the man who obeys Moses' command to be circumcised has fallen from grace.

Who do you follow?

simplifiedtruth · May 29, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Then lets obey Jesus then because Jesus said this:

Matthew 5:17 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [/FONT]the righteousness[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Matthew 7:21 [/FONT]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matthew 23:1 [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [/FONT]2[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: [/FONT]3[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John 14:15 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Matthew 19:16 [/FONT]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Matthew 28:19 [/FONT]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Dont be a hypocrite, lets Obey the Words of Jesus Christ!

Dan_473 · May 29, 2016

It seems to me, and I mean this very politely, that the gentile lawkeepers I've met keep the law as long as it's not an inconvenience.

simplifiedtruth · May 29, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

2 Peter 3:[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14 [/FONT]Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Some things are hard to understand about Paul's writings if you are unfamiliar with the scriptures, which many unstable and unlearned people twist to their own destruction by teaching we are not to obey the law.

You must understand the bible does not contradict itself, and Paul is not trying to make you think that either. He is speaking to those who know the law.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.God's Law is Holy7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The mystery of the gospel is that the house of Israel which were given a divorce could remarry and come back to God because they were freed from the law that says you cannot remarry the same person after a divorce, it is abomination. The law says when a husband dies the wife is free from that law and can now remarry. This is what Paul is talking about here. The house of Israael remarrying God when Jesus Christ was dead, buried and resurrected which made it possible for them to return according to God's own law.

People misinterpret Paul because they can not understand him based on their knowledge of the scriptures.
The circumcision was a movement in the day of Paul and being circumcised was a term used for keeping the law in accordance with certain doctrine, especially in accordance with animal sacrifice and even man made commandments at that time.
The Law is not "the law of Moses" but the Law of God. It is He's marriage covenant for He's bride. And we are obliged to keep our part and not be adulteresses.

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 29, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

No, what Paul was referring to was the error that pharisees from Jerusalem were teaching gentiles that they must become proselytes of righteousness (be circumcised and observe the law of Moses) to be saved. The Jerusalem council ruled that was not necessary, but simply observing the guidelines for being proselytes of the gate (observe Noahide Laws) was sufficient.

link > http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...never-been-under-law-moses-3.html#post2323223

link > http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...never-been-under-law-moses-3.html#post2323303

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 29, 2016

Dan_473 said:

I believe that they all, to the man, belong to the union of cherry pickers.

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 29, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

You have two choices: either all is fulfilled, or all isn't. If all isn't fulfilled, then you are responsible for keeping every jot and tittle of the law. Be my guest. No cherry picking allowed.

Furthermore, Paul taught against the commandment to be circumcised. It was not a least commandment either, but a foundational commandment of the old covenant, for without it a man was not even a member of the covenant. Will he be least in the kingdom of heaven?

trofimus · May 29, 2016

BibleGuy said:

Yes, Lev 18:23 applies to us.
No, Lev 19:5 does not apply to us.
Yes, Lev 19:11 applies to us.
No, Lev 19:19 does not apply to us.
No, Lev 19:23 does not apply to us.
No, Lev 19:27 does not apply to us.

In this way I can go through the whole Old Testament and pin point out verses that apply or do not apply to us.

Why? Because its an Old Testament. "Old" means it does not apply to us as a legal system of code. We are under a New Testament. This new one has some things similar and some things different.

You must understand that when some code is changed to a new one, the new one will have many things similar and many things different. That is not a proof the old one is still legally valid as a whole and that courts will be guided by it.

Grace777x70 · May 29, 2016

Hey there Grace777x70,

I'll try again...

===========>>>>> Does Lev. 18:23 apply to you, or not? <<<<<===============

trofimus said:

Amen...I don't need to hear the law of Moses to know not to have sex with an animal....I'm sure the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus that is in us would prevent that.....

simplifiedtruth · May 29, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Again you do err, not knowing the scriptures. Acts 15 is not about teaching not to keep the law but allowing the unlearned to congregate with them in the synagogues where the scriptures is taught. Sinners were not allowed into the congregation but the exception was ruled when people who believe in Christ could come and learn the gospel and to hear the Law. In the land of Israel in old time they allready had moses preached everywhere so this was not a problem. The newcomers were commanded to abstain from certain things in order to come and learn the the law and the gospel. The discussion really was about if they were allowed to come unless they were already keeping the law of God, which the Apostles never commanded.

simplifiedtruth · May 29, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Jesus fulfilled the law, he did not do away with it as he said. This is Jesus own words. If you relax the least of the commandments and teach others to do the same then as it says you will be least in the kingdom of heaven.

Again from post 87: People misinterpret Paul because they can not understand him based on their knowledge of the scriptures.
The circumcision was a movement in the day of Paul and being circumcised was a term used for keeping the law in accordance with certain doctrine, especially in accordance with animal sacrifice and even man made commandments at that time.
The Law is not "the law of Moses" but the Law of God. It is He's marriage covenant for He's bride. And we are obliged to keep our part and not be adulteresses.

All it comes down to is unbelief. People have adopted doctrines of men and deny the scriptures. This is rejection of Jesus Christ himself by rejecting He's own words. The very same words that is going to judge us when we see him.

Grace777x70 · May 29, 2016

Luke 2:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Even Jesus Himself called it the law of Moses. He might know something about this topic.

Luke 24:44 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

John 7:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Here is Paul talking about the law of Moses.

Acts 13:39 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Here are the Jewish believing Pharisees telling people to live by the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. ( does this verse sound familiar to what is going on today? )

simplifiedtruth · May 29, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Again you do err, not knowing the scriptures.

This is the mystery of the gospel:
Acts 13:39 (KJV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

The mystery of the gospel is that the house of Israel which were given a divorce could remarry and come back to God because they were freed from the law that says you cannot remarry the same person after a divorce, it is abomination. The law says when a husband dies the wife is free from that law and can now remarry. This is what Paul is talking about here. The house of Israael remarrying God when Jesus Christ was dead, buried and resurrected which made it possible for them to return according to God's own law.

Acts 15:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. ( does this verse sound familiar to what is going on today? )

Again you do err, not knowing the scriptures. Acts 15 is not about teaching not to keep the law but allowing the unlearned to congregate with them in the synagogues where the scriptures is taught. Sinners were not allowed into the congregation but the exception was ruled when people who believe in Christ could come and learn the gospel and to hear the Law. In the land of Israel in old time they allready had moses preached everywhere so this was not a problem. The newcomers were commanded to abstain from certain things in order to come and learn the the law and the gospel. The discussion really was about if they were allowed to come unless they were already keeping the law of God, which the Apostles never commanded.

Grace777x70 · May 29, 2016

Here is a great website that thoroughly disputes the "law-keepers" position. This is a link to " 12 undeniable truths that drive "law-keepers" crazy."

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.word...deniable-truths-that-drive-law-keepers-crazy/

simplifiedtruth · May 29, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

You can make the bible say anything you want, this is called eisegesis which ignores the truth: The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

The problem with such people claiming we are not to obey the law is they ignore 100s of scriptures and cherry pick their favorite ones to create their own doctrine.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:4 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Matthew 5:17 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22;14 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Luke 3:9 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Wake up! Dont play aroud with your soul with this doctrine of hypocrisy. Search the scriptures for yourself and see if it be so. What he say to one he say to all. [/FONT]

RobbyEarl · May 29, 2016

All that for naught, oh well

Grace777x70 · May 29, 2016

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House of Cornelius and the law

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