How and When does God know me?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#21
Allow Scripture to define the word, not man's made up dictionary.

If the word "know" means to know as a child, the passage is still telling us that God did not know anyone as a child before they believed upon Jesus. John Calvin wouldn't like to hear that.
You haven't responded to my post #13. God knows all, both the saved and the unsaved.

I must ask, what is the point of this thread anyway?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#22
It's clear from Scripture that God knows the hearts and thoughts of all people, saved and unsaved:

Psalm 94:11 The Lord knows all human plans; he knows that they are futile.

Psalm 119:168 I obey your precepts and your statutes, for all my ways are known to you.

Psalm 139:1-16

Isaiah 29:15 Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the Lord, who do their work in darkness and think, “Who sees us? Who will know?”

Luke 16:15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

1 Corinthians 3:20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
I agree that the Lord knows all of our thoughts. He knows us better than we know ourselves. The moment we have a thought, He knows it.

However, it's interesting to see how Scripture states God knows us (as a child) by His seal, His Holy Spirit. God knows us as a child at salvation, not before.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#23
You left out verse 3 which is the context of the passage.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

The spiritual blessings is the context. Before the foundation of the world, God chose to bestow these spiritual blessings through Jesus Christ, to those in him. God did not choose us to be in Him. Calvinists love to rewrite the Bible to fit their RCC agenda. No Calvinist was there at the foundation of the world, but Jesus was.
Hi John146, I'm not following some of this unfortunately. For instance, you said that "Calvinists love to rewrite the Bible to fit their RCC agenda". What is the Calvinist "RCC agenda"?

Also, while none of us where there to see the foundation of the world being laid, it's hardly the Calvinists alone who believe that God knew us long before we were born, unless you think that someone like King David was secretly a Calvinist that is ;) .. e.g. Psalm 139:16. The Bible also tells us that the names of all the saints were written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and that the names of the those who would never come to saving faith in Christ were not .. e.g. Revelation 13:8.

As for God's predestination of us to adoption as sons, and His choosing us to be in Him from before the beginning (before He laid the Earth's foundations), again, it's hardly the Calvinists alone who believe/teach that.

Perhaps it would help me to understand where you are coming from by asking you this before we continue farther, do you believe that God is omniscient and omnipresent (in the classical sense of the meaning of those words)?

Thanks!

~Deut
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,069
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#24
LOL, this is rich.

It's when you seek God and find him. He don't find you, you find him.
So pray tell, how did you find your God? I know it is written for he that comes to God must believe he is and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him, so was your reward finding the eternal God who is invisible and not of this world? But is also written, without faith it is impossible to please God.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
387
96
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#25
How and when does God know me according to His word?

How? 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

When? 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
God knew His elect and the reprobate before the world was made, the Bible is very clear about this fact so there should be no doubt about it. Yet I find many people have a problem with this Bible fact, they want to take some credit for saving themselves but God says no. All the glory belongs to God, it is sinful to try to rob Him of the glory that belongs to Him alone.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
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#26
Hi John146, I'm not following some of this unfortunately. For instance, you said that "Calvinists love to rewrite the Bible to fit their RCC agenda". What is the Calvinist "RCC agenda"?

Also, while none of us where there to see the foundation of the world being laid, it's hardly the Calvinists alone who believe that God knew us long before we were born, unless you think that someone like King David was secretly a Calvinist that is ;) .. e.g. Psalm 139:16. The Bible also tells us that the names of all the saints were written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and that the names of the those who would never come to saving faith in Christ were not .. e.g. Revelation 13:8.

As for God's predestination of us to adoption as sons, and His choosing us to be in Him from before the beginning (before He laid the Earth's foundations), again, it's hardly the Calvinists alone who believe/teach that.

Perhaps it would help me to understand where you are coming from by asking you this before we continue farther, do you believe that God is omniscient and omnipresent (in the classical sense of the meaning of those words)?

Thanks!

~Deut
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

What is this verse saying? God's saw my substance in the womb before I was fully formed (fashioned).

Adoption of sons is the redemption of the body (Romans 8:23). That's the promise to those already in Christ. Those who trust in Christ, have been placed in Christ and sealed for the future adoption. God's foreknowledge always precedes predestination and election.

God is omniscient is a man made term. Let's allow Scripture to define the attributes of God. I see throughout the Bible that God has chosen to limit His knowledge when dealing with man, specifically mans choices to obey His word or disobey His word. I don't want to explain these passages away with some man made theology. I just want Scripture to be honest and true and not read theology into it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
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#27
God knew His elect and the reprobate before the world was made, the Bible is very clear about this fact so there should be no doubt about it. Yet I find many people have a problem with this Bible fact, they want to take some credit for saving themselves but God says no. All the glory belongs to God, it is sinful to try to rob Him of the glory that belongs to Him alone.
According to Scripture, How does the Lord know those who are His?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,661
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#28
John146, is the point if this thread to prove that God does not have a knowledge of the future (and therefore he could not elect, predestine etc)?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
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#29
John146, is the point if this thread to prove that God does not have a knowledge of the future (and therefore he could not elect, predestine etc)?
The point of the thread is to discuss what God does know and when does He know it, specifically, when one gets saved.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,661
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#30
The point of the thread is to discuss what God does know and when does He know it, specifically, when one gets saved.
And by "to know", which knowing you mean:

a) data, information about something
b) personal relationship
c) sexual intercourse

I think that you use verses about b) to mean a).

But maybe you can clarify.
 

pjharrison

Well-known member
Jun 21, 2018
1,094
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#31
LOL, this is rich.



So pray tell, how did you find your God? I know it is written for he that comes to God must believe he is and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him, so was your reward finding the eternal God who is invisible and not of this world? But is also written, without faith it is impossible to please God.
i
You just said it, diligently seek him, and find him. We are the ones who are lost.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
387
96
28
#32
According to Scripture, How does the Lord know those who are His?
The scriptures tell us that God predestined some for salvation, before He laid the foundations of the world. He knows them because He chose them before they were born, isn't that what the scriptures say?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#33
The scriptures tell us that God predestined some for salvation, before He laid the foundations of the world. He knows them because He chose them before they were born, isn't that what the scriptures say?
Not in my Bible. Predestination has to do with the believer's sinless body, conformed to the image of Christ. That's not salvation. I am saved before I am predestined. I am saved upon hearing the gospel and believing, then I am predestinated unto the future adoption which is the redemption of the body.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,661
458
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#34
Not in my Bible. Predestination has to do with the believer's sinless body, conformed to the image of Christ. That's not salvation. I am saved before I am predestined. I am saved upon hearing the gospel and believing, then I am predestinated unto the future adoption which is the redemption of the body.
"And the Gentiles hearing it were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
Acts 13:48

Are you saying that they believed first and then became appointed?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
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#35
"And the Gentiles hearing it were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
Acts 13:48

Are you saying that they believed first and then became appointed?
The word "ordain never fixes anything absolutely. (Lk. 7:8; Rom. 13:1; Acts 28:23, Matt. 28:16; 1 Cor. 9:14; 7:17) Paul ordained some things and that no more meant they were absolutely fixed to come to pass than if he hadn't used the word. (Rom. 13:1) The meaning is obviously that as many as were disposed to believe the message, believed. God knew their heart was ready to receive the message, even before the message was given.

(Rom. 2:7) - God doesn't ordain any Gentile to eternal life until he has followed his conscience and is willing to hear the Word of God. (vs. 42,48) "Ordained" something simply means God allows to come to pass.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,661
458
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#36
The word "ordain never fixes anything absolutely. (Lk. 7:8; Rom. 13:1; Acts 28:23, Matt. 28:16; 1 Cor. 9:14; 7:17) Paul ordained some things and that no more meant they were absolutely fixed to come to pass than if he hadn't used the word. (Rom. 13:1) The meaning is obviously that as many as were disposed to believe the message, believed. God knew their heart was ready to receive the message, even before the message was given.

(Rom. 2:7) - God doesn't ordain any Gentile to eternal life until he has followed his conscience and is willing to hear the Word of God. (vs. 42,48) "Ordained" something simply means God allows to come to pass.
I am not sure where did you get the idea that the word means that God just allows something to pass.

The word tassein is used 8 times in the New Testament and it always means active decision, never just a passive allowance.

"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them"
Mt 28:16

"And the Gentiles hearing it were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
Acts 16:48

"they appointed Paul and Barnabas and certain others out from them to go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question."
Acts 22:10

"Then having appointed him a day, many came to him to the lodging, to whom he expounded from morning to evening"
Acts 28:23

"Let every soul be subject to the authorities being above him. For there is no authority except by God; but those existing are having been instituted by God."
R 13:1

"and they have devoted themselves to service to the saints"
1 Cor 16:15
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#37
I would think that God being outside of time sees the beginning and ending of His own creation, and He knows us in the same way.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#38
I would think that God being outside of time sees the beginning and ending of His own creation, and He knows us in the same way.
Where in Scripture does it say that God is working outside of time? Did not God create time? Is not God choosing to work with man in the time He created? That's what I see throughout Scripture.

Yes, God has stated that in the end, He will rule and reign over all. We have Revelation and the end of the story.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
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#39
Gal 1:15

"But when he who had set me apart before I was born,[a] and who called me by his grace,"

Footnotes:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#40
I would think that God being outside of time sees the beginning and ending of His own creation, and He knows us in the same way.
Where in Scripture does it say that God is working outside of time? Did not God create time? Is not God choosing to work with man in the time He created? That's what I see throughout Scripture.
This is a classic case of misreading. Stonesoffire did not claim that God is "working outside of time". She said that God is outside of time. That's different.