How Believers Are Clothed

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

So our faith in Jesus Christ is our apparel. Let's look at that faith in Him.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Can a believer be found naked? Yes, even though they are still His, a believer that has engaged in dead works that deny Him & thus voiding that faith above will run the risk of being denied a seating place of honour in His honour at the Marriage Supper Table.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.....

.....19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Can a vessel unto dishonour have a place of honour in honour of Him at the Marriage Supper Table? No. And yet they are still of His House, even though left behind.

That is why these saints mentioned below did not have a wedding garment that they needed to be given white robes.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

How can a believer be found naked that they need white robes given to them as coming out of the great tribulation?

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.......

.....9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

What proof is there that those believers naked of their faith in Him will be left behind from the Marriage Supper?

Matthew 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,.......8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It is all about where your hope rests on: Him or.... Him & something else? When a believer divides that singlular hope in Him, then that hope ceases to be that hope.

Let nothing divide your hope in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him....4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Psalm 33:21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O Lord, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

You can isolate and proof text all the scripture you want in order to make claim that the unrighteous and disobedient are going to make it into the kingdom.

All you are doing is deceiving yourself while you attempt to deceive others.

Jesus said it is the pure in heart that will see God. Jesus said it is the workers of iniquity who will be rejected at the judgment. Paul warned that it is those who patiently continue in doing good that receive eternal life and that those who are disobedient and self-seeking, well, they receive the wrath of God.

You won't be able to do what you are doing on judgment day. It is better to accept what the scriptures plainly teach and yield to them on this side of the grave because once on the other side the deeds done this side can not be undone.

God will not be mocked for we will all reap what we sow, whether we sow to the Spirit or we sow to the flesh.

Let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

God bless.

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

What you are teaching, Enow, clearly violates the plain teachings of Scripture.

DON'T BE DECEIVED ENOW!!!

1John 3:7-8
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Revelation 19:8

New International Version (©1984)
Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)New Living Translation (©2007)
She has been given the finest of pure white linen to wear." For the fine linen represents the good deeds of God's holy people.
English Standard Version (©2001)
it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
She was given fine linen to wear, bright and pure. For the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints.
International Standard Version (©2012)
She has been given the privilege of wearing fine linen, dazzling and pure." (The fine linen represents the righteous deeds of the saints.)
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And it was given to her to wear fine linen, pure and bright, for the fine linen is the uprightness of The Holy Ones.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
She has been given the privilege of wearing dazzling, pure linen." This fine linen represents the things that God's holy people do that have his approval.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of saints.
American King James Version
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
American Standard Version
And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And it is granted to her that she should clothe herself with fine linen, glittering and white. For the fine linen are the justifications of saints.
Darby Bible Translation
And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints.
English Revised Version
And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Webster's Bible Translation
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Weymouth New Testament
And she was permitted to array herself in fine linen, shining and spotless; the fine linen being the righteous actions of God's people.
World English Bible
It was given to her that she would array herself in bright, pure, fine linen: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Young's Literal Translation
and there was given to her that she may be arrayed with fine linen, pure and shining, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.'

Revelation 22:11-15
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Galatians 6:7-9
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

I assure you that being left behind from the pre tribulational rapture is not going to be a picnic for unrepentant believers which is why they need to repent. To be destroyed from being that vessel unto honour in His House into becoming that vessel unto dishonour in His House is an eternal damnation that God will have to wipe the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation to get past that great loss.

Did not the prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living? And yet he was still son. The difference is mentioned when the father coaxed the elder son in by reminding him that all that he has was his, which is indicative that it is not the same for the prodigal son that has returned.

Why else would God refer to Esau who gave up his birthright for a meal.. for something temporary and wept bitterly, seeking that what was lost?

1 Corinthians 3:10-23 shows how God will judge as there will be a destruction. Do note the results of such chastisement.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Hebrews 12th chapter shows the consequences for not departing from iniquity, but again, it is done for this purpose.

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

God will judge His House first: 1 Peter 4:17-19

As Paul taught about excommunication, so will God do in 1 Corinthians 5:4-13, but again, see the purpose for it.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Our confidence in Jesus Christ is that He will finish His work even in those left behind. Philippians 1:6,9-11 because of this promise below.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

But yet this was prophesied that the falling away from the aith will occur: 1 Timothy 4:1-2 which is why God will be judging His House FIRST.

Correct.

Correct. It is because we are His, believers should look to the author & finisher of our faith to help them lay aside every weight & sin to remain as that vessel unto honour.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

I totally agree, but what you need to understand is that if no flesh shall glory in His presence, then how can there be any considered as least in the kingdom of heaven?

It is by doing this below:

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Better to look to Him to be great and teach as He has taught than to teach otherwise.

If you had believed I was teaching error, you should not have posted that, brother.

2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I still call any unrepentant belliever a brother still because of this truth, even though I am commanded to withdraw from him.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.........13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

And Paul was writing this in regards to those wicked & unreasonable men that departed from faith in the previous chapter.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We see that disorderliness in the "holy laughter" movement, the Toronto Blessings, the Pensacola Outpouring, slain in the spirit, and any other movement wherein believers think they are receiving the Holy Spirit again & after a sign too, even tongues that comes with no interpretation which is why believers were warned about those preaching another spirit to receive when we had already received the Spirit of Truth as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ that we are filled to hunger & thirst no more.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

That is why Paul reminded believers in regards to that apostasy that we have received the Spirit of promise by faith in Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

This is what Jesus said about the trespassing believer of what He will do even if we fail to correct them.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

See that, brother? Jesus is going to recover the lost sheep, but we are still exhorted to correct those believers that have gone astray, and to withdraw from them or excommunicate them if they do not repent in the hopes that they will repent before the Bridegroom comes when God will judge His House first. He did not say that if a brother that does not repent was never a believer, but as we judge within, so will God.

So as much as pre trib rapture enthusiasts think all believers will be raptured, they are wrong. If they think that those left behind were never believers in the first place, they are wrong. Look at how God will judge the church at Thyatira in according to their works.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So what you had said about how God will judge is true, but you are overlooking that the children of disobedient are His as they will become vessels unto dishonour in His House for still having His seal as that foundation has been laid in Christ Jesus for all those that believe in Him, even in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Which is why His disciples are led by Him to warn all believers that BECAUSE they are His now, they should look to Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to repent from iniquity in running that race to remain as the vessel unto honour in His House.

Gd wiping the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation is indicatibe of how great a loss that it was and how unrepentant believers after being chastened by God the Father, will need a miracle from Him to get past that loss to quit weeping.

So it is not a "small thing" to be left behind for not departing from iniquity after all.

homwardbound · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

I SEE NO ERROR IN WHAT ENOW WROTE, WE ARE TO FORSAKE INIQUITY, SIN ERROR AND HAVE LIFE WITH GOD THROUGH CHRIST WHO BY THE CROSS CONDEMNED ALL SIN TO THE FLESH AND WE THE BELIEVERS ARE TO DIE WITH CHRIST BACK AT THE CROSS AND COME BACK TO LIVE BY GOD THE FATHER OF CHRIST JUST AS GOD THE FATHER ROSE CHRIST BACK TO LIFE ROMANS 6:1-11 IT IS ALL GOD AND US GIVING UP ON SELF EFFORT SO THAT GOD CAN TAKE OVER AND DO WHAT WE CAN'T DO, AND THESE ARE THE WORKS FROM GOD THAT WILL NOT BURN UP. ALL FLESH WORKS WILL BURN UP
HOMWARDBOUND

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

homwardbound said:

Enow offers those who persist in their rebellion a false assurance that they will still enter the kingdom. he just claims they will miss out on the wedding supper.

The Bible clearly teaches that those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the passions and desires which by implication means that those who have not done so are not Christ's. God is calling those people indeed but they have to forsake walking their own way.

Look at the very first point Enow made,

Does that verse say that "faith in Jesus Christ is our apparel"? No it doesn't. Enow has inserted his view into the text.

The verse plainly states that one is a child of God "by faith" in Christ and that those who have been baptised "into" Christ have put on Christ.

The context of that passage is this...

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The law brings us to Christ because it is an outward illustration of righteous conduct. Yet when we truly come to Christ we abide in His Spirit whereby we are subjecting our will to His lead. The natural state of a man submitted to God will be God working through that man. This is why Paul wrote this...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice verse 1 connects being "in Christ" with "walking after the Spirit."

Notice verse 2 connects the law of the Spirit of life "in Christ Jesus" with being set free from the law of sin and death.

Notice that in verse 3 it alludes to the fact that the law cannot bring life (hence Rom 7:5-11) but life is in Jesus Christ.

Verse 4 sums up the first 3 in that it says that "righteousness if fulfilled in us" when "we walk after the Spirit." Now go read Gal 5:17-23 for a parallel explanation.

Enow does not teach that. He is teaching aspects of it but then he is appending it with a teaching that you can be naked and still enter the kingdom, just "through fire."

Look in his second post where he uses 1Cor 3:13 and uses it as a proof text for the disobedient Christian being saved in the end. Now go and read 1Cor 3 in context and you'll clearly see that Paul is not speaking about carnality in the sense of the unrighteousness of 1Cor 6:9-10. Paul is speaking about unproductive church building as a response to how the Corinthians were elevating certain teachers and having divisions amongst themselves.

If you cannot see Enow's error it is because you are not digging into what the Scripture actually teaches. There is simply no reason for anyone to isolate and proof text scripture out of context.

The Bible is clear that the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom. Righteousness is in what you do ie. your deeds. The method by which we produce the fruit of righteousness if by yielding ourselves to God and thus abiding in Christ and this is initially done through repentance and faith. Once we have repented and turned ourselves over to God we then have to diligently add to our faith and make sure we have on the full armour of God because Satan is a roaring lion and wants to pull us back into our old ways.

That is what the Bible teaches.

zone · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

and? are you Christ's?
is Enow?
prove you are and not he.
what's the utmost sign you are?
tell me if you know.

if they are not Christ's, what do they need?
got anything for them?

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

zone said:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Those who are not Christ's need to do what Jesus taught all people to do. Pick up our cross, deny ourselves and follow Him.

Stephen63 · Jan 25, 2013

Enow, are you a Universalist?

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

John is referring to those that are abiding in Him from those that are not.

Interesting how you refer to almost every modern Bible, but the authorized King James Bible.

Revelation 19:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Whom are we honouring at the Marriage Supper? Him? Or the saints for their righteous acts?

Jeremiah 23:6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Philippians 3:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

2 Corinthians 5:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence. [SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: [SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Romans 3:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; [SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So the contention is on the modern Bibles on having righteous acts instead of just righteousness as that linen.

Strong's Greek Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

dikaioma

Note the singular deed: not plural, so "righteous acts" is an errant translation in deriving that from that word.

What is that singular righteous act? Believing in the Son of God. That is the answer of a good conscience towards God.

1 Peter 3:21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the answer of a good conscience towards God. What happens when you believe?

Romans 4:[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

So no matter how you look at it, God the Father sees His righteousness imputeth on us for believing in Jesus Christ.

How we live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ will be judged. No argument there, but you have to ask yourself if you really believe your righteous acts is what clothes you instead of His righteousness.

Isaiah 64:6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, [SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [SUP]6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

In Revelation, it is written that the elders will be casting their crowns at His feet. One has to ask the Lord why they would do that if they had earned those crowns. I believe they are doing it because the crowns are really His crowning achievements in them for trusting Him to do it... which is why the just really do live by faith in Him & His promises to us.

nathan3 · Jan 25, 2013

The gospel armor is a way .

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

Ignoring the scripture I have put forth is not wise, brother. God will chasten every child He receives.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? [SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? [SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Just like the chastening of those wayward & unrepentant saints that get left behind to be cast into the bed of the great tribulation where they will be judged according to their works which is death, but it is done so that they may be partakers of His holiness afterwards.

Hebrews 12:[SUP]25 [/SUP]See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: [SUP]26 [/SUP]Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:[SUP]29 [/SUP]For our God is a consuming fire.

That means no believer can lose their salvation, but they can lose their first inheritance like Esau did with his birthroght over a meal.

Make no mistake: God will judge His people.

Hebrews 10:[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So what is coming is not going to be a picnic for unrepentant believers which is why there is necessity to repent by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race as that vessel unto honour in His House by His grace & by His help.

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

Enow,

If you are rightfully dividing the word of truth then why do you leave out this passage as it pertains to imputed righteousness?

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

You are teaching "believing" in a context where the "steps" have been disconnected from faith (you allude to the steps as filthy rags). Why is that? Why do you leave that passage out? I see that passage left out practically every single time by those who teach the reformed doctrine of the imputed righteousness of Christ. You need to answer that question please. Why do you leave it out?

So that is my first question.

Secondly...

In reference to the passage of Isa 64:1-12 where in verse 6 it says this...

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Yet the clear context of that passage is the apostate nation of Israel which has turned from God unto their OWN STANDARD of righteousness. This is the righteousness that is as filthy rags to God, any perceived righteousness which is apart from the grace or leading of God.

Yet you are taking that passage and applying it to ANYTHING an individual does when you say...

Especially when John states this...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Therefore righteousness is clearly in WHAT YOU DO, according to the Bible, and not some forensic cloak as you are teaching. Thus the when God imputed or reckoned Abraham righteous it was because he WALKED IN THE STEPS of a righteous faith (submission to God from the heart). Hence faith establishes the law as it says in this verse...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Here is one other verse that is applicable to faith and righteousness which clearly connects deeds with righteousness.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Abel did this act in faith, ie. in humble trusting submission to God. If you are consistent with your position you would have to say that Abel's sacrifice was as filthy rags before God.

So please explain how you get around those verses which clearly connect FAITH with DEEDS?

Why do you completely ignore those verses when you are trying to teach this imputed righteousness of Christ to your account doctrine?

This is what I mean by how you isolate and proof text scripture. You pick verses that suit your dogma and completely ignore others which give context. That means instead of letting the the Scripture teach you, you are attempting to wrest the Scripture to support a dogma you already hold.

This is no small issue I am raising.

Could the follow passage be speaking of people like you and you don't even realise it? Are you wresting the scriptures or are you taking into account the WHOLE counsel of God (Act 20:27)?

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Stephen63 said:

No, brother, I am not a universalist.

This only pertains to those that believe in Jesus Christ... even to those that just believe in His name for they are His.

John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This does not apply to nonbelievers that has never believed in Jesus Christ nor in His name.

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Consider his faithful saying that only applies to believers:

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself......

That means at the judgment day of the House of God at the pre trib rapture, a believer that denies Him, will be denied, but even if he did go astray in religious dead works that deny Him, or even to the point if he does not believe any more, having his faith overthrown whethor it be because of the fasehood of the evolution theory or when persecution arises and because he had no root, he was offended by the word & departed from believing in Him, Jesus Christ still dwells in him.

We see this promise again below:

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. [SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

That high prize of our calling is to remain as that vesel unto honour in His House as He has made us to be when we got saved.

That's right. A new believer in Jesus Christ & found abiding in Him will be rewarded the same as one that has been a believer all his life and by His grace & by His help, he has been found abiding in Him. The same goes for a believer that repents by His grace & by His help. So the call to repent is now, not tomorrow, because the Bridegroom could come at any moment.

But the scripture I have provided proves that Jesus will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him, but as many are called, few are chosen to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in honour of Him for no flesh shall glory in His Presence, and neither will iniquity dwell in His Presence either.

It's time for complacent believers to look at Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd, and not just as their Saviour to get them ready & keep them ready because we are living in perilous times when many are falling away from the faith in Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 52:1Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Romans 13:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

1 Corinthians 15:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ephesians 5:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. [SUP]15 [/SUP]See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, [SUP]16 [/SUP]Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, [SUP]25 [/SUP]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

Enow said:

Again you are isolating Scripture. Please address my previous post and the questions I asked, if you are not isolating and proof texting verses out of context then you ought not have any trouble with my questions. If you are doing as I assert you are doing then those questions ought to make you uncomfortable because they shine a light where one is seldom shone in regards to this doctrine.

Now in this latest post you again assert the contention you make in your first post, namely, "no believer can lose their salvation."

First of all what is salvation? What is salvation in your mind? Saved from what?

I contend that salvation is being saved from the bondage of sin as well as being saved from the wrath of God due our past rebellion. Those are the two aspects I see clearly laid out in Scripture.

Here is one of these aspects...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Thus slavery or servitude to sin is connected to committing sin and Jesus teaches that the Son can make you free indeed. This is a small passage where Jesus clearly teaches "salvation" is connected to "not being a slave of sin."

Paul mirrored the sentiment of Jesus when he wrote...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:16 is a clear parallel to Joh 8:34. Paul, like Jesus, then speaks of FREEDOM immediately after.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Paul clearly connects "obeying from the heart" with being "made free from sin."

When we take into account how sin actually functions through the drawing of the lusts of the flesh, ie.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Notice verse 15 is a parallel to Rom 6:16 in the context of "sin unto death." Now when we look at 2Pet 1:3-4 we see Peter clearly teach that one has ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION IN THE WORLD THROUGH LUST.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Now do those passages harmonise with what you are teaching? Let's be honest here.

You are saying "no believer can lose their salvation" and yet at the same time teach that "a believer can be in rebellion and sinning." Therefore salvation to you must have nothing to do with escaping the corruption in the world through lust.

Can you see the problem here? The contrast between what you are teaching and what the Bible actually teaches is glaring.

Salvation is saved from what? What are you saved from? Just the lake of fire?

You go onto say that "God will judge His people" and then quote Heb 10:29 (I notice you skip past v. 26 about no sacrifice remaining) and then use that verse as a proof text to support that the "unrepentant believer" is not going to have a picnic.

What is an "unrepentant believer" anyway? Jesus said this...

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

It appears to me that repentance and believing go together.

Repentance literally means the "change of mind" therefore is one is still in rebellion to God then obviously their mind has not changed. So if you believe that one can be a believer whilst still being in rebellion then believing to you must be just a mental acknowledgment of some facts. Is that correct? Yet Paul writes this...

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

That passage clearly contradicts the assertions you are making. If it doesn't then explain how it does not?

The word "unbelief" means this...

G570 Unbelief - apistia
From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.

Yet you teach that one can believe and be in unbelief at the same time. You are clearly not rightly dividing the word of truth. Paul clearly warns believers in the above passage about being "cut off." Yet you are assuring people entrance into the kingdom even if they remain in rebellion, the avenue of escape you offer is by teaching of a future purging which will be no picnic. Is that what Paul taught? Paul clearly warned the Corinthians that the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom and he listed very specific actions which will disqualify someone. Yet you avoid such warnings completely in your writing due to how they contradict your assertions. Why are you doing that?

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

Now chastening is clearly taught in the Scripture.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Yet one cannot isolate that passage from the warnings about unrighteousness and rebellion. The Scripture harmonises. Yet God chastens His children but those who are still willfully in rebellion are not His children.

Who are God's children?

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The context is in regards to willful rebellion. The children of God FOLLOW Him. Those who are not His children DO NOT FOLLOW.

Hence pick up your cross, deny yourselves, and follow me.

The sheep FOLLOW.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

None of those who follow will be lost. New believers are not perfect but neither are they rebellious to God. God has to chasten them to bring them to holiness just as Hebrews 12 teaches. This is the perfecting of the Saints.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I new believer must be instructed in the ways of righteousness. Thus it works like this...

Obedience Unto Righteousness
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Righteousness Unto Holiness
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

End of Holiness is Eternal Life
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those who despise instruction turn back and do this...

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Those who do not turn back do this...

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

Walking in the steps of that faith is not pertaining to works but showing that faith.

You did gloss over the first portion of that reference, brother, in getting that meaning.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Because you are seeing steps of faith as works, but not the steps of faith of believing God.

I read the beginning of that chapter that the steps of faith was not about works.

I am not saying we are not to follow Jesus Christ, because we are, but we do so by looking to Him, not to ourselves by the flesh. We live by faith in Him & all His promises to us that we will follow Him, thus steps of faith in believing God.

You are aquainting John's rebuke of believers that were walking in darkness by living in sin and not repenting from them because these errant believer think that sin was no longer sin any more and so when they do it, it is not sinning with your take on looking to do righteous works to justify oneself as being His.

If you read the first chapter, that was one of the falsehood that John was rebuking the sinning believers in that epistle and readdressing again at various times throughout that letter as he did so in your reference.

Righteousness as John was applying it was indeed about how believers are found abiding in Him and not by walking in darkness.

Romans 4:14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 3:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Faith with deeds? You mean the faith in seeking God & believing God.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.....[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I believe you are confusing imputed righteousness of Christ by faith as something you did by righteous acts, instead of that one act of believing in Jesus Christ.

Judge not lest ye be judged. By the measure that you judged, ye shall be judged.

I know. You seem to confuse His righteousness that is imputed on us with something we had a part in by doing good deeds. That is insulting to Him... so yes, I agree that this issue is not small at all. May the Lord help you to see that.

Psalm 100:[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So once again, it is His righteousness and it is by our faith in Him we do good works, but that is not a part of that linen that believers will be wearing at the Marriage Supper. How can it be without giving the "elect" to glory in themselves in His presence by those righteous acts being advertised all over them??

Let's look at those good works in how God will see it.

Luke 17:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? [SUP]8 [/SUP]And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? [SUP]9 [/SUP]Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

No way will the good works we do in serving Him will we be rewarded for. Is He not the One that supply the seed to the sower & water to the waterer? Is He not the One that causes the increase? And yet there is some reward in that because we get to see Him at work to give all the glory due His name.

That reference from Peter was what John was addressing about Paul's writing. Here below is where believers got the false idea that sin was no longer sin.

1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. [SUP]26 [/SUP]I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

Believers were misreading Paul's letter by ignoring the context of verse 25 as referring to verse 28 of the male virgin and then the female virgin, and instead, they were applying verse 27 with verse 28 as if it was okay to be loose from a wife to marry another again, thus not committing adultery in their eyes, and then jumping back to the topic of a virgin marrying as if only referring to the female virgin as not being a sin when they marry.

So then from there, it snowballed about sin no longer being a sin which is why John was rebuking that by pointing out how Jesus had walked in the light as we are to in having fellowship with Him and to be abiding in Him in that first chapter of the book of 1 John.

So I still only see His righteousness as getting me Home and the good works I do, it is by faith in the Son of God in me since it is not I who live, but Christ Who lives in me.. so is it really me doing good works, or the Lord in me enabling me to do them what man could not do when they were under the law? I am going with the Lord on that one as my Enabler and thus denying myself as being able. That is how I get to know Him & the power of His resurrection when I trust Him to help me to follow Him. Those are the steps of faith in Christ Jesus that are pleasing to God.

Enow · Jan 25, 2013

Skinski7 said:

John 3: [SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: [SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 6:[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How you address those verse given previously in this post will be key because apparently, you are adding to His words as if Jesus left out alot of addendums to being saved as more than just believing in Him... and certainly more than just believing even in His name.

If you go back to John again, you will find that believers are called to be His disciples after being saved.

John 8:[SUP]30 [/SUP]As he spake these words, many believed on him. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

If a believer does not want to lose their full reward and to bear fruit so that they may have their joy full, then they need to look to Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd to help them abide in Him and in His words to be His disciples to be chosen for the Marriage Supper. Otherwise, there will be stripes for not preparing oneself.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? [SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? [SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. [SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; [SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

That will be the portion where the world will be tried during the great tribulation.

[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. [SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

As there will be a fire that will burn up one third of the earth that will set the stage for the NWO in the coming great tribulation, I would have to say that no believer will want to be left behind for that so may God be peradventuring to recover some from the many snares of the devil by going before that throne of grace for help in our hour of need.

Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

Enow,

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Below is the first point you make in regards to the verse above in answer to my query as to why you ignored that verse which clearly teaches that God only reckons one righteous who "walks in the steps of faith."

Not pertaining to works? Walking in the steps of faith is "what you do" so how can you say that is not some sort of work? Everything we do is a work of some sort.

James connected works to faith when he said this...

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Compare that to Rom 4:12. Abraham WALKED IN THE STEPS OF FAITH and thus SHOWED HIS FAITH BY HIS WORKS.

Yet you say...

How does one show there faith is it is not by their works? ie. by what they do, their actions, their deeds. Answer that question.

The very first statement you made in your post is the complete opposite of what the Bible PLAINLY teaches.

You then say this...

I didn't gloss over anything. I simply asked why do you ignore what Rom 4:12 teaches in that it connects DOING with FAITH. You are teaching that faith is just a "mental acknowledgment APART from doing." That alone is one of the foundations of error that you are building your entire system of theology upon. A little leaven leavens the whole lump and I am trying to show you your leaven with the plain words of Scripture.

Rom 4:1-3 is true but you cannot take those verses out of the context of Rom 4:12 like you are doing. Rom 4:12 gives us a further description of what true faith is. Hence the kind of faith by which God reckons someone as righteous is that of a working obedient faith and not some mental assent whilst remaining in rebellion. Due to your faulty understanding of faith you have erroneously concluded that one can be in rebellion to God and have saving faith at the very same time.

I then asked you why you apply the "filthy rags" of Isa 64:6 to ANYTHING WE DO when the clear context is of an apostate nation who had set up THEIR OWN STANDARD of righteousness apart from the righteous standard of God. I also brought in why Rom 4:12 is omitted by those who teach the reformed doctrine of the "imputed righteousness of Christ."

You answered...

Again you disconnect "following Christ" from "your actions." In other words "following Christ" or "believing" to you is simply a MENTAL ASSERTION apart from what you actually choose to do. How can you FOLLOW someone if you don't WALK AFTER THEM?

Romans 4:12 does not say that the "steps of faith are believing in God" like you just said, it specifically says "WALK in the steps." Here is the Greek definition of WALK.

G4748- WALK -stoicheō
From a derivative of στείχω steichō̄ (to range in regular line); to march in (military) rank (keep step), that is, (figuratively) to conform to virtue and piety: - walk (orderly).

Does that harmonise with what you are saying? What do you esteem more, your doctrine or the Scripture? You are asserting the complete opposite of what the Bible PLAINLY states.

Paul warned Timothy with this...

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul also warned that there would be those who did this...

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I then brought up this Scripture where John clearly connects WHAT YOU ACTUALLY DO with RIGHTEOUSNESS.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You responded with this...

I did not say we do "righteous works to justify ourselves." What I said is that righteousness is manifested in what you actually do. Rom 4:10-12 teaches that God reckons those who "walk in the steps of faith" as righteous. Walking in the steps of faith will MANIFEST righteousness in one's life because Paul rights in Rom 6:16 that it is "obedience unto righteousness." Thus an individual who yields to God from the heart (Rom 6:17) will manifest outward righteousness because Christ is living THROUGH them. Hence we are IN CHRIST by faith, an active obedient faith, yielded to God.

We don't justify ourselves. God reckons us just by our faith. In other words God looks at our heart and if we are in humble submission to His leading then He counts that as righteousness. If we had to do works to justify ourselves then we would never enter the kingdom because we all fall short of the glory of God and we have also sinned in the past. There is no possible way a man can justify himself before God, it is only through His good grace that anyone is justified.

What you are teaching is that God reckons one righteous even if they are in rebellion as long as they "believe" in the sense of a "mental assertion of a truth." That is error. That is the faith of devils which James warned about.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

If there is no manifest fruit borne out of faith then that faith is dead and of no value. Hence one cannot be rebellion to God and have saving faith at the same time. It is impossible. One cannot serve two masters and we serve God by faith.

I then quoted this verse...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

You responded with Rom 4:14, Rom 10:1-5, and Rom 3:19-22 without commenting. Let's examine those scriptures.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Here Paul is clearly teaching that righteousness is not through the law but rather through faith (v.13). He also teaches that the law works wrath for there is no sin without the law (v.15). Paul then concludes that due to this that righteousness must be of faith so that it be of grace, otherwise only those under the law would be deemed righteous (v. 16).

The law is a list of do's and dont's given to men by God. Yet these rules only deal with the outside of the cup so to speak. Hence one may not murder, steal or fornicate OUTWARDLY yet still INWARDLY have a heart set on doing those things. That person is not righteous because righteousness is from within, not from mere adherence to a standard of conduct. Thus true righteousness CAN NEVER be by the law.

Yet Paul teaches that "faith works by love" in the following passage...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Notice here Paul again teaches that righteousness is not by the law, rather is is by faith. This is because faith works by love and what does love do?

It fulfills the law!

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If one loves their neighbour do they abstain from killing them because of a rule? Do they abstain from stealing from them because of a rule? NO! They abstain from doing evil because they LOVE THEIR NEIGHBOUR and to do evil would be the opposite of loving. See the difference between law and faith? The difference is HUGE.

Hence John writes this...

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Doing righteousness is related to loving one another.

Now what does Rom 10:1-5 say...

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Christ is the "end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth." Why is that?

It is because those who are IN CHRIST are yielded to God's righteousness in that they walk after the Spirit as opposed to establishing their own standard. Hence Paul wrote this...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The true Christian is led by the Spirit. They yield to the light of God in them for they have submitted themselves to Christ. Look at this passage...

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness does not come by the law. Righteousness comes by living in the flesh in yielding to CHRIST IN US. Thereby we don't frustrate the grace of God by turning to some outward ruleset, but rather, are led by the Spirit. Faith works by love which manifests outwardly in righteous conduct. Hence a GOOD TREE is BEARS GOOD FRUIT.

Is that what you teach Enow? I don't see it at all in your writing. In fact what you write contradicts it. Yet I am just showing you the plain teachings of Scripture. I can lead a horse to water but I cannot make it drink.

Now to Romans 3:19-22...

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Again Paul teaches the same thing. The law cannot justify, it only brings the knowledge of sin. The righteousness of God is by the faith of Christ. What kind of faith is that? It is a faith that works by love which thus establishes righteousness in the heart by which we manifest outward righteous conduct. We yield to the Spirit just as Jesus yielded to the Spirit. We walk as He walked.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The love of God is perfected in those who yield to the instructions of Jesus. We know we are in Him if we walk in this way, the STEPS OF FAITH (Rom 4:12).

It all connects together because this is what the Scripture so clearly teaches. There is no forensic cloak of righteousness while you still remain in rebellion. The Bible means what it says.

Again I ask you to note that Rom 4:12 is an invisible Scripture to those who teach the reformed doctrine of the "imputed righteousness of Christ." That verse contradicts what they teach and that is why the skip over it. Look how you brushed it off and denied what it plainly states when you disconnected "deeds" from the "walk." By disconnecting "deeds" from "righteousness" you end up with a doctrine which can cater to the "unrepentant believer" which is a term you used in an earlier post. One cannot receive and reject God at the same time, it is impossible.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Those who do not DO are SELF DECEIVED. Yet you teach that there are "believers" who "do not do" and yet are "saved" at the same time. Saved from what? They are not saved in any sense of the word!

I then brought up Abel and the sacrifice he made whereby he bore witness that he was righteous.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

I then asked how you get around a verse like that which connects actual conduct (deeds) with righteousness. You replied with...

You didn't answer my question. Yes Heb 11:1,2,6 are true but that does not address my query to you. heb 11:4 SPECIFICALLY states that Abel's DEED bore witness of his righteousness. Bear in mind I am not saying that Abel was trying to justify himself (as you alluded to earlier), I am simply pointing to the fact that DEEDS bear witness to to whether one is righteous or not. There is no such thing in the Bible of a forensic cloak of righteousness applied to someone who remains wicked and defiled at heart. That is a myth which was borne out of the Protestant Reformation. That doctrine is EASILY refuted with the Scripture.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Not he who is cloaked with a forensic Jesus cloak. That is a satanic fantasy used to induce a measure of comfort in a rebel that they will escape condemnation. Don't fall for it. I know it is a tasty doctrine but it is actually very poisonious.

You say this...

There is NOT A SINGLE VERSE or PASSAGE in the Bible which teaches that the "righteousness of Christ is reckoned to your account." It is not found anywhere. Jesus did not teach that. Paul did not teach it. Nor did James, John or Peter. It is NOWHERE in the Bible.

The Bible teaches that FAITH is COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Jesus obeying for you and his record being credited to your account. I really do not understand why people believe in that doctrine, especially when faced with Scripture. That doctrine is nowhere to be found in all of history until Marin Luther came along and invented it. Perhaps someone taught it previously but I am so far unaware.

From reading Martin Luther's writings he clearly belieived he had "rediscovered" a long lost truth. Yet he completely ripped verses out of context to prove it. God imputes FAITH AS RIGHTEOUSNESS not the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JESUS. This false doctrine is DEADLY to the soul and it is leading SO MANY ASTRAY. If you truly believe it Enow then dig into the Bible and honestly see if it is taught. Question this doctrine please! Look into it. Don't believe it simply because most other people believe it. Jesus said MANY would be deceived by MANY FALSE PROPHETS. This doctrine is taught by MANY TEACHERS today and MANY PEOPLE believe it.

(cont...)

Skinski7 · Jan 25, 2013

This doctrine neutralises the necessity of heart purity through repentance and faith whereby we submit to God wholeheartedly. It completely throws that out the window and replaces it with this forensic cloak for ongoing rebellion. Satan is a master deceiver and he has hoodwinked so many with this. Those who oppose this deadly doctrine are viewed as heretics and yet all we are doing is clearly espousing what the Bible plainly teaches.

Dealing with this can be frustrating but I know God is in control and it is He that gives the increase. I am just a drill bit messenger contending earnestly for the faith.

You finish of with this quote...

Again there is a distinction between submitting to the Spirit (abiding in Christ) and follow the rules and regulations of the law. The law only addresses the outward man and points to righteousness. It is in the Spirit that righteousness is manifested through us. Hence it is not our works done apart from the grace of God but rather it is works done IN FAITH as we ABIDE IN CHRIST thus our manifest conduct is an OUTWORKING of the SPIRIT OF GOD IN US to which we are in FULL SUBMISSION. True righteousness is rooted in yielding to God and not in following some rule set.

Thus one cannot be in rebellion to God and righteous at the same time. Righteousness is only found in being in submission to God from the heart. Thus we are to be DOERS of the word and not hearers only. A DOER is in submission, a HEARER ONLY is not.

God is the author of salvation of those WHOM OBEY HIM because those who disobey are resisting the work of God within and thus the heart remains defiled.

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