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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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The law doesn't create sin, and it has no power to bring sin on use. As to doing what Yeshua told us, was it not Yeshua that said,
Jhn 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Mat 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
If Yeshua placed a premium on the Law, should we not also?
Yes it does. The problem isn't the law, but fallen flesh...the power of sin is the law...1 Corinthians 15:56.
 

Rainrider

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Jun 17, 2017
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it is certainly a point. it is the same God Who gave Israel a law on Sinai that gave us an entirely different covenant through His own blood.

by saying "you have heard it said.. but I say unto you" Jesus asserted Himself as THE Lawgiver. the One who has authority to say this is your law and this is not your law.

giving us a different law He doesnt mean He changed the old Law.

it means the Christian isn't under the Law of Moses.

Matthew 5 does not contradict itself.
And thqat has what to do with His name?
 

Rainrider

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Jun 17, 2017
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Yes it does. The problem isn't the law, but fallen flesh...the power of sin is the law...1 Corinthians 15:56.
Man brings sin on our self. The Law has no power to creat sin, or remove it. It simply points it out. I will make this real simple, that stand has no bases in the Word. Even Paul is clear,
Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
 

Rainrider

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Jun 17, 2017
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We cannot sin while walking in the Spirit because it is not us but Christ who is living in us.
If you believe that I have some ocean front property to sell real cheap. It's just out side of Phoenix Az.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Man brings sin on our self. The Law has no power to creat sin, or remove it. It simply points it out. I will make this real simple, that stand has no bases in the Word. Even Paul is clear,
Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
You are denying what scripture teaches. I can show you what scripture says. I can't believe it for you. Grace and peace.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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You are denying what scripture teaches. I can show you what scripture says. I can't believe it for you. Grace and peace.
have you ever seen do this? NO. I know what the Word tells us, and I work to keep in context with the whole of the Word.
 

Rainrider

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Jun 17, 2017
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What do you mean it becomes the dominant part of our DNA?
Why is the focus on the law? Why isn't the focus Christ?
Did you know that the Law is a magor topic in the N.T.? 168 or times the law is spoken of, and 63 times the commandments are. That would seem a lot of wasted time for something that isn't important.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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have you ever seen do this? NO. I know what the Word tells us, and I work to keep in context with the whole of the Word.
You just said in an earlier post that the law has no power in sin. I showed you a verse that says the law is the power of sin. And you still deny it. I showed you that the only way to keep the law is by walking in the Spirit. You deny this.
Now I readily confess that the problem doesn't lie in the law but in the nature of fallen flesh. But apart from Christ, we can do nothing. In Christ, we can do all things.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Did you know that the Law is a magor topic in the N.T.? 168 or times the law is spoken of, and 63 times the commandments are. That would seem a lot of wasted time for something that isn't important.
I didn't say it wasn't important. I said no man can keep it as a matter of his own endeavor. And anyone who relates to God on the basis of how well they keep the law will surely die in his sins.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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have you ever seen do this? NO. I know what the Word tells us, and I work to keep in context with the whole of the Word.
You say we haven't died, and you say we are under the Law and condemned by it, but the Word says this:

Romans 7:1-6​
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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LOL Good one. Still doesn't say you are the spelling police, or grammar cop.
my comment wasn't about grammar or spelling but about you falsely accusing me of 'playing both sides of the fence' while you want to both be saved and be condemned by the Law at the same time.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,532
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You just said in an earlier post that the law has no power in sin. I showed you a verse that says the law is the power of sin. And you still deny it. I showed you that the only way to keep the law is by walking in the Spirit. You deny this.
Now I readily confess that the problem doesn't lie in the law but in the nature of fallen flesh. But apart from Christ, we can do nothing. In Christ, we can do all things.
I think you need to re-read that post. I have always maintained that the law has no power to MAKE US SIN. The law isn't sinful, it points out our sin, and SIN bring death, not the law.
Rom 7:7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Sin comes when we transgress the law. 1John 3:4 and the Law of HaShem isn't sinful as made clear above. Yet so many people wish to try and make it seem that way. What I do find sad is that you will turn to Paul to do so. Yet you never turn to his writings that speak of Him keeping the law, why?
Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,532
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I didn't say it wasn't important. I said no man can keep it as a matter of his own endeavor. And anyone who relates to God on the basis of how well they keep the law will surely die in his sins.
So Yeshua doesn't have the power to remove our sins? Did Paul also died in sin? He followed the Laws of HaShem, in his own words as noted in the prior post. So if Paul was so lost, as you make it sound that I am also, why bother with anything he said?
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,532
87
48
You say we haven't died, and you say we are under the Law and condemned by it, but the Word says this:

Romans 7:1-6​
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Let me give my understanding of that passsage. It will be way different that yours.
Yes the Law does have dominion over us as long as we are above ground, breathing, and have a pulse.
The law is clear in regard to marriage. As we all know til death do us part. So it is no wonder that Paul, a man who folloed the Law in his heart, seen this as fact. However as we should note, if she remarries when he is still living, she is guilty of adultery. The laws that govern marrage came with an exportation date built in. When one dies, the other is now free to remarry. What does this mean? Working with Paul's words here. Should the women remarry do you know what happens? Thats right she now back under the laws of marriage. So the law hasn't been removed, it simply can't be applied to a person that isn't married. Much like the laws that govern the high priest can't be applied to you or me.
Paul is right, we should have died to the letter of the law, yet in his own words he still did his best to follow a law you wish to see as him saying we are dead to. Rom. 7:25.
So does it add up that if we are free from the law in the way you say, that Paul would follow it, and tell us he does so? No it doesn't. Unless Paul was so confused he didn't remember what he had just said. Or maybe Paul is a hypocripte, inf so, we should place no stock in anything he said. Keeping the context of one passage in line with what came before and after, as well the whole of scripture is a must.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,532
87
48
You say we haven't died, and you say we are under the Law and condemned by it, but the Word says this:

Romans 7:1-6​
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Almost forgot. I will always stand by the FACT that we are not dead. As before please read the following.
Rom 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Last time I posted this passage you said I can play word games all I want. What you didn't say is that the WORD, Paul, Yeshua, and all say we are BORN again. Being born again is the exact opposite of being dead.
Jhn 3:7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Mar 12:27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Not my word game, this is the Word speaking.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,532
87
48
my comment wasn't about grammar or spelling but about you falsely accusing me of 'playing both sides of the fence' while you want to both be saved and be condemned by the Law at the same time.
As you wish.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,820
6,467
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I think you need to re-read that post. I have always maintained that the law has no power to MAKE US SIN. The law isn't sinful, it points out our sin, and SIN bring death, not the law.
Rom 7:7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Sin comes when we transgress the law. 1John 3:4 and the Law of HaShem isn't sinful as made clear above. Yet so many people wish to try and make it seem that way. What I do find sad is that you will turn to Paul to do so. Yet you never turn to his writings that speak of Him keeping the law, why?
Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
I understand your position. Both scripture and experience show it to be in error.