How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so.'

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edward99

Guest
#21
#21
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

Catfish said:
Matt 26:39
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

I am sure that you guys have seen this verse of course, I think He said this out of sorrow, had he known about predestination this would have never been said. Or, it could be argued for predestination in the sense that He knows that He has to go through with it, or else. To me, it means that he asked the Father if it is possible to change His will for a second, then Jesus' realizing that this is or would be selfish and out of Jesus' love for us corrected Himself. And, If you throw free will into the equation then, what the verse equals is love, John 3:16.

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LOVE indeed!

This is Jesus (Son of) God who took on (added to Himself) human nature (Son of Man), asking if He could avoid bearing the wrath of God for every sin ever committed, by every man, ever.

He knew He wouldn't...that is what He came for.

This was Jesus, the Man. The Sinless Man about to endure unimaginable wrath. In our place.

Isaiah 53:4-5
Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Isaiah 53:10
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering

Philippians 2:8
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
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Catfish

Guest
#22
#22
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

Matt 26
50 Jesus replied, “Friend, do what you came for.”[d]
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

I am talking/emphasizing about verse 53 the most, this verse speaks to me that if He wanted(through free will), and He knew God would do it, that 12 legions of angels could come down here and take care of this situation right now, but no, that was not what He or God wanted Him to do. It shows His compassion for us, how much He cares for His people. So, as the world at the time was blind, He came to open the eyes of the chosen to an understanding of love and compassion. He could have opened the eyes of the chosen with 12 legions of angels, you betcha, but that would open everyones eyes only to fear, the wrong kind of fear. That is not the crop He is raising. So, I get out of that verse it was Jesus' choice to die for us, As it was predestined in the scripture Eph 1:5.

 
WolfInOxHide

WolfInOxHide

Banned
#23
Jul 12, 2012
933
2
0
#23
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

How about this idea:

God knew before He created you, what you would choose with your freewill, and when and how you would die.
He could have chosen to create you, or not, based on that future outcome.

But He chose to create you, and let you play it out the way you will.

Therefore, by choosing to create you the way that you are, are you not in a sense, "predestined"
and yet in a sense "not" ?
 
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xino

Guest
#24
#24
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

John 10: 25
"25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”


That was in the old testament that God allowed Satan to do his thing on Job, that was basically a test to see if Job would move away from God.
But now, if we believe in Jesus and make him our saviour, he would not let us go back to our slave sin or worship the Devil.

The thing is, God has already seen what we are capable of from birth, so he knows who would go back to worshipping devil even though they accepted Jesus before, this would be during the end times as it says in Matthew. That many would betray others and others will worship idols. Even the ones who believe would fall away.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#25
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
#25
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

xino said:
...The thing is, God has already seen what we are capable of from birth, so he knows who would go back to worshipping devil even though they accepted Jesus before...
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God not only foresees things, He also predetermine them. These test/trials that people are put through are not happening in order for God to "discover something but solely for the people tested and other men involved.
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#26
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#26
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

Wolf pretty much got my opinion of it too... God already knows what I will choose in my life, but I choose it of my own free will.
 
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Catfish

Guest
#27
#27
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

I agree with you there Wolf,
and I will add this to it, to be predestined after using your free will to find God, you accept His will, and give up yours(free will), after accepting His, yours and His will become one, if you use your own will again after that, be careful, because that is where the "not" may come in to play
I am not saying that you don't revert back to your own will, and God would use that for maturing purposes.

As much as I would like to be perfect, I know I am not.

If you love the Holy Spirit, you will stay anchored!
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#28
#28
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

Catfish said:
I agree with you there Wolf,
and I will add this to it, to be predestined after using your free will to find God, you accept His will, and give up yours(free will), after accepting His, yours and His will become one, if you use your own will again after that, be careful, because that is where the "not" may come in to play
I am not saying that you don't revert back to your own will, and God would use that for maturing purposes.

As much as I would like to be perfect, I know I am not.

If you love the Holy Spirit, you will stay anchored!
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Hmmmmm, ínteresting thought.

It is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives with in me, for I am crucified in Christ.

Being a bondservant of Christ, do we no longer make our own decisions?

I think Paul answers this question in Romans 7:14-25 and 8: 1-6 .

--With our mind, we serve the law of God, but our flesh serves the law of sin. By crucifying the flesh, by the Son of God's sacrifice, and, living in the innumerable Holy Spirit power, we defeat sin, and, though we DO err, and, need forgiveness, our choice of 'Christ' makes sinning no more a hold on us, we are FREE from the law of sin ahd death as we relationship walk with Christ, living our lives in Him. Life and peace comes from this way of choosing to live. :)
 
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Catfish

Guest
#29
#29
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

Amen bro GreenNnice,

Free will is way overrated.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#30
#30
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

GreenNnice said:
Hmmmmm, ínteresting thought.

It is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives with in me, for I am crucified in Christ.

Being a bondservant of Christ, do we no longer make our own decisions?

I think Paul answers this question in Romans 7:14-25 and 8: 1-6 .

--With our mind, we serve the law of God, but our flesh serves the law of sin. By crucifying the flesh, by the Son of God's sacrifice, and, living in the innumerable Holy Spirit power, we defeat sin, and, though we DO err, and, need forgiveness, our choice of 'Christ' makes sinning no more a hold on us, we are FREE from the law of sin ahd death as we relationship walk with Christ, living our lives in Him. Life and peace comes from this way of choosing to live. :)
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Catfish said:
Amen bro GreenNnice,

Free will is way overrated.
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Just because Christ lives within us, catfisher, does this mean we do not make our own decisions?

See above ;)
 
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Catfish

Guest
#31
#31
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

We make Christ led decisions through prayer. Spirit-led decisions, God wants you to make decisions, He wants to make sure you make the right ones. Once He starts molding you, you will not want to go back to the old ways of your old self.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#32
#32
Re: How do 'predestination' & 'free will' tie into 'You do NOT die until God says so

Catfish said:
We make Christ led decisions through prayer. Spirit-led decisions, God wants you to make decisions, He wants to make sure you make the right ones. Once He starts molding you, you will not want to go back to the old ways of your old self.
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God is God, explaing what He can and cannot do is fruitless although scripture states God can not lie (Hebrews 6:18) and God does not tempt us with evil ( James 1:13).

But He, like Jesus submitting to human conditions because of the will of His father, does not submit His power over our will even though God sometimes trumps our will to make something happen as is His known plan to bring about glory to Himself. 911 is a perfect example where God imposed His will to bring good out of that disaster, like americans giving to charity in record numbers, billions and billions, I believe the donations to non-profit charities' totals were, and, surely, many, many thousands (millions?) were blessed from.around world giving to USA.

God does not make our decisions for us all the time, yes, indeed, we have free will choice, but His circumstances in a given situation can trump our proposed outcome because He will accomplish everything for us, IF we are lettig Him lead, that are a PERFECT plan for us. God , too, will even mete out, exacting punishment to the wicked, like Kaddaffi, Bin Laden, and, others that reigned terror, as their end is made to happen. God's will trumps all mankind's decisions, and, when believers choose wrong thing to do, against His will, God will let it be known, in punishment to His own, disciplined.
 
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