How do you know you got it right?
- Thread starter Saul_Durian
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J
Maturity isn't really a "Christian/Non-Christian" issue. Rather it's more of a human problem. As with most. EDIT: (Secular term maturity that is, he might be referring to being a "mature christian" as spiritual maturity)
I would, however, contend that it is not true that a "mature Christian wouldn't say my religion is better than your religion", depending upon how he defines religion of course. The reason, is that in effect this is exactly what is being said anytime the proclamation of Christ as the only way, or that Christianity is true and others are not, etc. etc...
Christianity is "better'' than the other man-made (demon-made) religions, for a number of reasons.
I would, however, contend that it is not true that a "mature Christian wouldn't say my religion is better than your religion", depending upon how he defines religion of course. The reason, is that in effect this is exactly what is being said anytime the proclamation of Christ as the only way, or that Christianity is true and others are not, etc. etc...
Christianity is "better'' than the other man-made (demon-made) religions, for a number of reasons.
[1] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
[2] And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
[3] If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. 1 Cor 13:1-3 RSV
[2] And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
[3] If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. 1 Cor 13:1-3 RSV
K
Accurate? So on which day did Jesus die? Passover Day as in Mark (the Last Supper was the Passover Meal eaten the night before Passover Day) or on Passover Eve as in John 19:14?
The census that brings Joseph & Mary to Bethlehem. They go there because Joseph's ancestor David, who lived hundreds of years previously, was from Bethlehem. All well and good, but...
Are we to imagine that everyone in the Roman Empire were required to return to the homes of their ancestors from 1000 years earlier? Imagine if we had a new worldwide census today, and we were all forced to go the where our own ancestors lived a millennium ago! How would everyone know where to go? Even with today's technology I've no idea who my ancestors were in the year 1012AD or where they lived! Can you imagine the total disruption of life such a mass exodus would create? So why is it not mentioned in ANY historical record other than the Bible? Doesn't it make the who census story ring a little false?
If Jesus' birth happenned during Herod's reign, then Luke cannot also be right when he said that the birth happenned whilst Quirinus ruled Syria... because Quirinus didn't take over Syria until 6AD, after Herod's death!
And what about the genealogies of Jesus. Putting aside for one moment that both are traced back via the paternal line (which is odd, because Jesus was born of a virgin, and as such wasn't a blood relation of Joseph)... they are different. In Matthew, the line goes back from Joseph to Matthan to Eleazar to Eluid and on into the past. In Luke it goes from Joseph to Heli to Mathat to Levi to Melchi. One could assume that one of the genealogies traces Joseph's line and the other (Luke's) is Mary's... except that Luke explicity states that he is tracing the line of Joseph (Luke 1:23, also Matthew 1:16) In the Matthew genealogy, he states that Joram is the father of Uzziah, and yet 1 Chronicles tells us that there were in fact three generations between the two.
These are just a few examples to illustrate what Saul Durian was saying.
The Bible is an excellent book, and provides a good guide by which we can live our lives in the love of God. But it is not perfect, and even aside from the contradictions there are many parts of the Bible I willingly choose to ignore (I find the Bible's attitudes towards slavery, women's rights and homosexuality abominable for example - but forgivable, taking into account the historical period when the Bible was written).
The census that brings Joseph & Mary to Bethlehem. They go there because Joseph's ancestor David, who lived hundreds of years previously, was from Bethlehem. All well and good, but...
Are we to imagine that everyone in the Roman Empire were required to return to the homes of their ancestors from 1000 years earlier? Imagine if we had a new worldwide census today, and we were all forced to go the where our own ancestors lived a millennium ago! How would everyone know where to go? Even with today's technology I've no idea who my ancestors were in the year 1012AD or where they lived! Can you imagine the total disruption of life such a mass exodus would create? So why is it not mentioned in ANY historical record other than the Bible? Doesn't it make the who census story ring a little false?
If Jesus' birth happenned during Herod's reign, then Luke cannot also be right when he said that the birth happenned whilst Quirinus ruled Syria... because Quirinus didn't take over Syria until 6AD, after Herod's death!
And what about the genealogies of Jesus. Putting aside for one moment that both are traced back via the paternal line (which is odd, because Jesus was born of a virgin, and as such wasn't a blood relation of Joseph)... they are different. In Matthew, the line goes back from Joseph to Matthan to Eleazar to Eluid and on into the past. In Luke it goes from Joseph to Heli to Mathat to Levi to Melchi. One could assume that one of the genealogies traces Joseph's line and the other (Luke's) is Mary's... except that Luke explicity states that he is tracing the line of Joseph (Luke 1:23, also Matthew 1:16) In the Matthew genealogy, he states that Joram is the father of Uzziah, and yet 1 Chronicles tells us that there were in fact three generations between the two.
These are just a few examples to illustrate what Saul Durian was saying.
The Bible is an excellent book, and provides a good guide by which we can live our lives in the love of God. But it is not perfect, and even aside from the contradictions there are many parts of the Bible I willingly choose to ignore (I find the Bible's attitudes towards slavery, women's rights and homosexuality abominable for example - but forgivable, taking into account the historical period when the Bible was written).
J
Don't have the time for the other claims, but you might like reading this. (or might not)
Publius Sulpicius Quirinius <--- click
Publius Sulpicius Quirinius <--- click
K
Going back to the original point - how do we know that Christianity is correct, given that ALL religions claim to be true.
Well, we can't.
Religion is a belief, a faith that cannot be proven or disproven. Whether God exists or not, what's really important is that we glean comfort and inspiration from Him. Even if it transpires that He doesn't actually exist, and God is nothing more than an inspirational idea devised by men thousands of years ago in the Middle East, I'd still be glad to have given my soul to Christianity, if for nothing else than it's brought so much happiness into my life.
Well, we can't.
Religion is a belief, a faith that cannot be proven or disproven. Whether God exists or not, what's really important is that we glean comfort and inspiration from Him. Even if it transpires that He doesn't actually exist, and God is nothing more than an inspirational idea devised by men thousands of years ago in the Middle East, I'd still be glad to have given my soul to Christianity, if for nothing else than it's brought so much happiness into my life.
K
Forgive me for being dense, but I can't see anywhere in that article that contradicts my assertion that Quirinius was made governor of Syria after Herod died.
The date he was made governor is not specified in your article (other than it was "almost immediately" after Tiberius was selected as Augustus' successor), and Herod himself isn't even mentioned (a Herod Archelaus [23BC-18AD] gets a namecheck, but this a different Herod to the one in the accounts of Jesus' birth - i.e. Herod the Great [74BC-4BC]).
Please elaborate.
The date he was made governor is not specified in your article (other than it was "almost immediately" after Tiberius was selected as Augustus' successor), and Herod himself isn't even mentioned (a Herod Archelaus [23BC-18AD] gets a namecheck, but this a different Herod to the one in the accounts of Jesus' birth - i.e. Herod the Great [74BC-4BC]).
Please elaborate.
Are you born again?
It sounded like you were saying that believing saves you. Anyone can say they believe, just like all the false religions claim to believe in Jesus, but these people are not saved. If this were the case then only atheists would be going to hell. But this is not correct, because only those born again will see the kingdom of heaven (John 3:3). The majority of churches out there believe in Jesus but not all are part of the true church/body of Christ. (Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!")
A person can believe something and not have faith in it. That's the difference.
Salvation produces obedience, so obedience comes after we are saved. It cannot come before. If it comes before then we are trying to earn salvation by doing good deeds/works of ourselves, which are just filthy rags as nothing we can do will impress Christ. His sacrifice paid the price, not anything we can do.
Once someone is born again, they are given a new nature and the fruits of the Holy Spirit produce works for Christ. This is the difference.
EARNT - If you're not born again and you try to love your neighbor to show obedience then you are trying to earn salvation by following the law.
GIFT - If you are born again with a new nature, you demonstrate love to your neighbor as a result of salvation.
Once someone is born again with the Holy Spirit in their life they don't need to ask this question. It's a supernatural experience and one which opens your eyes so you're no longer in darkness. You are given a new nature. The bible is not just a book, it's alive with many spiritual messages that are revealed to those with the Holy Spirit in them. To a 'natural' man he cannot understand the spiritual messages in the bible because they are discerned only through the Spirit, so he may see the bible as just a regular book.
Despite being written by several disciples there are absolutely no contradictions in the bible anywhere. Those without the Spirit will interpret the bible from themselves (not by the Spirit) and so will assume contradictions exist, but the truth is that the Spiritual messages are the same throughout the entire bible. No man was capable of composing these Spiritual messages without inspiration from God. Impossible. They are discerned only through the Spirit.
God is the author of the bible. There are a lot of religions out there but only the bible has prophecies which have been fulfilled, with more fulfilled prophecies to come! The bible has never been wrong! Jesus was the prophet sent to fulfill these prophecies! (Deuteronomy 18:15-18: "The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die. And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him")
But many still did not believe and would carry on with their daily traditions not wanting to believe He was the Messiah standing before them. The Pharisees still exist in the world today and not just the Jewish kind - but anyone that chooses religion over God is as bad as the Pharisees. We are now living in the New Testament!
Did you know that Jesus' crucifixion was written about in the bible 1,000 years before he was even born and crucifixions had not been invented at that time! This prophecy was written down to the very details of His future crucifixion - (Psalm 22:16: "They pierced My hands and My feet")
In the bible Christ says there would be a lot of counterfeits and false prophets in the world that would deceive the people (all deceptions are of the devil). Christ didn't come to give us religion at all. Man created religion and religion confuses people. Hence the devil caused this. Religion is a set of beliefs and laws forced upon people by a particular organization, by 'natural' man who is not guided by the Holy Spirit. So man is prone to error as a result.
2 Timothy 3:13-17: "But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"
(To add to this... Specific Geographical locations were recorded in the bible before man even knew of their existence/way before maps were created. God revealed many undiscovered places that only he knew about at that time. Unique historical accuracy - archaeological findings have been made which confirm in exact detail the historical statements in the bible)
Matthew 11:25; "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." – Jesus is thanking the Father for hiding the truth from certain ones.
1 Cor 2:14: "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit"
Pray for guidance as you read the bible. Pray that the truth will be revealed to you. As He says here...
Matthew 7:7-8: "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened"
well for me its kinda straight forward. while writing a biography/confession i broke down into tears and asked Jesus for help. i received an answer. the world and my perception of it underwent radical changes in a short period of time. when i tried to talk about it to people they did not really understand my actions and motives. when i tried explaining it to a Christians coworker he said what you are talking about is very similar to the book of romans. he gave me a bible and i began to read it. it explained everything i had experienced in a much better way that i could have. until that time i only had a small understanding of Christianity. i have experienced the physical effects of a renewed mind of of being born again of imperishable seed. there are also a few other passages in the book i understand differently than most people. there is a whole section of people in society that this occurs to today. we are aware of them but we do not acknowledge them of having a spiritual experience. those few who do follow what they perceive with faith are out there and can easily say, Jesus is the Son of God. everything the bible teaches in the new testament can be experienced while you are here on earth and alive now. the bible defines the experience, Jesus is the experience.
mark 4 v 11-13
Duewell
the rainbow connection
mark 4 v 11-13
Duewell
the rainbow connection
Brothers, let's bring our reasons to prove what we claim.
Human needs religion, like when we're hungry we need food, our souls also need food which is a religion.
sure in Christianity, Islam and Judaism God is one and all of them believe in Adam, David, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc...
but we've to find the differences, as Islam and Judaism say Jesus was a great Human and messenger of God, but Christians say he was a God!
Human needs religion, like when we're hungry we need food, our souls also need food which is a religion.
sure in Christianity, Islam and Judaism God is one and all of them believe in Adam, David, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc...
but we've to find the differences, as Islam and Judaism say Jesus was a great Human and messenger of God, but Christians say he was a God!
W
yes Katy I am born again
However, I am still saved, by faith. Faith without deeds is dead, but deeds without faith does nothing.
The rest (to obey/ do good) I see, not only as a command, but as a natural consequence.
I stumble, yes, but I am a child of God, which makes me both want to and able to live differently than I would if I was not.
LOVE is the most important factor, and I believe it should be our motivation for our deeds, not "if I do this I am saved"
However, I am still saved, by faith. Faith without deeds is dead, but deeds without faith does nothing.
The rest (to obey/ do good) I see, not only as a command, but as a natural consequence.
I stumble, yes, but I am a child of God, which makes me both want to and able to live differently than I would if I was not.
LOVE is the most important factor, and I believe it should be our motivation for our deeds, not "if I do this I am saved"