How I became Post-Trib Rapture from a Pre-Trib denomination

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peterT

Guest
#81
#81
shroom2 said:
No. I don't believe the 7 trumpets in Revelation relate in any way to "the last trump" in 1 Cor 15.

1 .
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It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.


It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet
THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Rv20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION:


1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
 
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shroom2

Banned
#82
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#82
peterT said:
It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.


It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet
THE FIRST RESURRECTION

Rv20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION:


1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
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???? Do you have a point?
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#83
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#83
He's pointing out the the seventh trump in rev. 11 is the last trump mentioned in 1 cor. 15:52
 
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shroom2

Banned
#84
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#84
Zilla64007 said:
He's pointing out the the seventh trump in rev. 11 is the last trump mentioned in 1 cor. 15:52
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If that's what he was trying to say, I believe he is wrong.

Also, the two witnesses will be called to heaven -prior- to when Christ returns in Rev 19:11. Trumpets aren't mentioned at all when they are taken up.
 
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peterT

Guest
#85
#85
shroom2 said:
If that's what he was trying to say, I believe he is wrong.

Also, the two witnesses will be called to heaven -prior- to when Christ returns in Rev 19:11. Trumpets aren't mentioned at all when they are taken up.
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I like how you use bible references instead of the whole Bible verse, is that because the bible verse has nothing to do with when they the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.

Rv19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Nothing about the two witnesses in that verse or the razing of the dead
 
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shroom2

Banned
#86
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#86
peterT said:
I like how you use bible references instead of the whole Bible verse, is that because the bible verse has nothing to do with when they the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.

Rv19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Nothing about the two witnesses in that verse or the razing of the dead
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??? Thanks for making my point.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#87
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#87
I hear a lot of people use the two witnesses on here to prove a point. my question is who are the two witnesses? that would help understand the place they come in. I personally believe this time has passed but there is also a future fulfilment. So who are these witnesses?
 
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Zilla64007

Banned
#88
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#88
the two witnesses have nothing to do with the rapture...
 
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peterT

Guest
#89
#89
Zilla64007 said:
the two witnesses have nothing to do with the rapture...
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It does not sound like it.


It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.


It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet

 
cronjecj

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
#90
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
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#90
Shroom,

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV)
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 7:14 (KJV)
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

John 17:15 (KJV)
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Matthew 28:20b (KJV)
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Peace.
 
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shroom2

Banned
#93
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#93
cronjecj said:
Shroom,

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Click to expand...
Yes. That happens after the trib. Christians will already be with the Lord. Matt 24 is not the same event as 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thes 4

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV)
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Click to expand...
You want to make "the last trump" the seventh trumpet of Revelation. It's not.

Revelation 7:14 (KJV)
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Click to expand...
Yes, some believers will make it through through trib. But not Christian believers (people living in this age of grace, where we can become born again), we will already be with the Lord. We will return WITH him in Rev 19:11-14

John 17:15 (KJV)
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Click to expand...
Christ was speaking about Israel. Christianity did not start until the day of pentecost.

Matthew 28:20b (KJV)
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Peace.
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
cronjecj

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
#95
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#95
shroom2 said:
Yes. That happens after the trib. Christians will already be with the Lord. Matt 24 is not the same event as 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thes 4


You want to make "the last trump" the seventh trumpet of Revelation. It's not.


Yes, some believers will make it through through trib. But not Christian believers (people living in this age of grace, where we can become born again), we will already be with the Lord. We will return WITH him in Rev 19:11-14


Christ was speaking about Israel. Christianity did not start until the day of pentecost.


Amen.
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Shroompie ;)............ just one Question: Is Israel, elect, saints, church, believers, Christians and the chosen the same body?
 
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shroom2

Banned
#96
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
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#96
cronjecj said:
Shroompie ;)............ just one Question: Is Israel, elect, saints, church, believers, Christians and the chosen the same body?
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Today (ever since Pentecost) everyone who believes, both Jew and gentile, becomes a member of the body of Christ. They become saints, a member of the church, one of the elect when they believe unto salvation. After the rapture, things will revert to Jew and gentile once again. There will be believers, saints, but they will not be Christian as we know it today, with holy spirit born in them.
 
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notIbutChrist

Banned
#97
Oct 2, 2011
416
3
0
#97
shroom2 said:
Today (ever since Pentecost) everyone who believes, both Jew and gentile, becomes a member of the body of Christ. They become saints, a member of the church, one of the elect when they believe unto salvation. After the rapture, things will revert to Jew and gentile once again. There will be believers, saints, but they will not be Christian as we know it today, with holy spirit born in them.
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Where in the bible do you get this idea?
 
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shroom2

Banned
#98
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#98
notIbutChrist said:
Where in the bible do you get this idea?
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There are many places. One example is that for Christians, the new birth is permanent. We are born of incorruptible seed (1 Pet 1:23). We are saved. Who can separate us from the love of God? (Rom 8:31-39) Holy spirit is literally born within us. It is the earnest of our inheritance. In the gospels and Revelation, believers are told they must endure until the end to be saved (Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13, Rev 2:10).

This administration of grace began on the day of Pentecost, and will end with the rapture, when dead and living Christians will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air. There will be no more Christians on earth, but there will be people left who will choose to believe during the trib.
 
cronjecj

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
#99
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
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#99
cronjecj said:
Shroompie ;)............ just one Question: Is Israel, elect, saints, church, believers, Christians and the chosen the same body?
Click to expand...
shroom2 said:
Today (ever since Pentecost) everyone who believes, both Jew and gentile, becomes a member of the body of Christ. They become saints, a member of the church, one of the elect when they believe unto salvation. After the rapture, things will revert to Jew and gentile once again. There will be believers, saints, but they will not be Christian as we know it today, with holy spirit born in them.
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a whole paragraph but not one yes or no :(

So what is it shroom?
 
L

lrdspwn

Guest
#100
#100
I am more of a mid trib person, people will be raptured right before the anti-christ reveals himself
 
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